Post-Game Talk: Zibanejad worst Ranger since.....?

[mas0764]

So what you're saying is Kreider will still have a lot of value on the trade market this summer?

Let's do it.

And then that convinces Mika to leave as well.

Kreider, Mika, Trouba, Goodrow out the door.

 

[McRanger92]

I want to get rid of Kreider because he's a safety net for our management.

It's just time to rip off the band aid.

He's very good analytically but he can't be the best player on your first line if you want to win Cups.

He's 32. Time to move on. You can get a lot for him, that's the appeal.

13 years. It hasnt really worked out with him as the leader of the team. Time to turn the page fully from 2014 imo

 

[Machinehead]

Let's do it.

And then that convinces Mika to leave as well.

Kreider, Mika, Trouba, Goodrow out the door.

Panarin and Fox too. Do it or don't do it.

 

[mas0764]

Ok, then we're rebuilding again. Great.

I don't see the fear in that.

We aren't winning anything as constructed anyway.

Yeah, it sucks that we invested too much in our 1C and 6D. But move them, what do you do next?

We don't have a 1C then.

They cap space will be nice but I'm not sure you can just reload instantly with free agents, that will put you right back in the cap bind. You'll need assets and Kreider helps bring them in. If you can't win in the next 2 years, what are we keeping Kreider for? The hope that we can compete and he's still high-end at 35?

This is the same argument I made back in 2019. All we've gotten from keeping him is a single conference finals run where we were dispatched in 6 games. I would rather we have the first and Jason Robertson.

Panarin and Fox too. Do it or don't do it.

Fox can be kept around for the back end.

I'll move Panarin but that contract, not sure if it can be.

Shesterkin. He's the one that should be traded with a year of control left. You don't think someone like Toronto or Edmonton would pay heavily for that?

Fox can stay. We'll have first rounders coming out our ears.

 

[McRanger92]

Ok, then we're rebuilding again. Great.

It's that kind of thinking that got the Rangers into this mess in the first place. In hindsight, they didnt have to go for a full rebuild in 2018 but did because they figured "might as well". Look around the league and there are a bunch of guys from that roster playing huge roles for other teams. The Rangers are still an 8 seed with Panarin, Fox and the Hartford Wolf Pack.

 

[Machinehead]

I don't see the fear in that.

We aren't winning anything as constructed anyway.

Yeah, it sucks that we invested too much in our 1C and 6D. But move them, what do you do next?

We don't have a 1C then.

They cap space will be nice but I'm not sure you can just reload instantly with free agents, that will put you right back in the cap bind. You'll need assets and Kreider helps bring them in. If you can't win in the next 2 years, what are we keeping Kreider for? The hope that we can compete and he's still high-end at 35?

This is the same argument I made back in 2019. All we've gotten from keeping him is a conference finals run where we were dispatched in 6 games. I would rather we have the first and Jason Robertson.

I don't see any fear in that either, but most people who shit on Kreider think we'll get rid of Kreider and get better instead of much, much worse in the short-term.

Like the clowns who want to trade Adam Fox to get better now.

It's that kind of thinking that got the Rangers into this mess in the first place. They didnt have to go for a full rebuild in 2018 but did because they figured "might as well". Look around the league and there are a bunch of guys from that roster playing huge roles for other teams. The Rangers are still an 8 seed with Panarin, Fox and the Hartford Wolf Pack.

Did they?

They kept Zibanejad and Kreider and were buyers 18 months after the letter. I would argue they completely half-assed the rebuild.

If you're going to do it, the only one I could be convinced of keeping is Fox, and in that case, make up some injury or something.

 

[mas0764]

I don't see any fear in that either, but most people who shit on Kreider think we'll get rid of Kreider and get better instead of much, much worse in the short-term.

Like the clowns who want to trade Adam Fox to get better now.

I want to get bad again. I want to pick 2-3 more times in the top 5 so we can get some real difference makers at age 18. If Lafreniere, Chytil and Kakko had developed into 70 point players we probably aren't having this conversation.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

This reminds me of that collective meltdown early last season before Trouba threw his helmet.

The extremes this team goes through, it’s becoming a pattern. Either they are in a funk they cant get out of or winning every game

Thats all leadership and core related. Mika is at the head of it.

 

[MysticLeviathan]

I think another poster touched on it, I have before. He's really scared of concussions, and he should be.

He got paid, and he's gonna try to square this as best he can but he's also not gonna risk his long term health and this is kinda what we're gonna get. I don't think he'll flub the puck as bad, tonight was something weird, but it's not gonna be *that* much better either.

this has nothing to do with taking yourself out of a play to grab your stick which leads to the game losing goal. that’s competitiveness and heart, which are separate from self preservation. you could have a high compete level while constantly making business decisions.

 

[RangersFan1994]

A team full of Ryan Callahans doesn't get you any further either. We've seen that. It's the 2012 Rangers.

Not sure what is so hard for people to understand here.

YOU NEED ELITE TALENT, and really you need at least one real elite center.

You need the MacKinnons, the Crosbys, the Kanes up front. Then you need the "secondary" elites - the Malkins, the Rantanens, the Toews.

We've never had either.

You have to draft these types and when the Rangers are in position to do so, they picked the wrong guy.

 

[McRanger92]

I don't see any fear in that either, but most people who shit on Kreider think we'll get rid of Kreider and get better instead of much, much worse in the short-term.

Like the clowns who want to trade Adam Fox to get better now.

Did they?

They kept Zibanejad and Kreider and were buyers 18 months after the letter. I would argue they completely half-assed the rebuild.

If you're going to do it, the only one I could be convinced of keeping is Fox, and in that case, make up some injury or something.

The messaging was mixed on the rebuild im not going to argue that. But McDonagh won 2 cups with Tampa, JT Miller is a 100 point player, we havent been able to replace Fast for years. Zuccarello clearly could still play. Obviously Buchnevich we shouldve kept. We traded Skjei too, who i didnt love, but Kandre is just a younger version of him. That roster just needed a new coach. I'd argue this one needs a new identity.

Break up Kreider and Mika for sure and see if that works. But Kreider is supposed to be The Man on this team and he's just not. A team that needs a confident and emotional leader and my last memory of him will be literally crying after every playoff disappointment saying "we didnt do enough". He's a great Ranger but the issues with the culture run deep and you're in denial if you dont think the only guy who has played in a Stanley Cup for the Rangers in 30 years is absolved of any blame because Zibanejad sucks 5v5. It's not like Chris is playing his heart out every night. As I said before, we shouldve known it was rotten when he wasnt picked as Captain for God knows why. Time to try something new.

 

[mas0764]

You have to draft these types and when the Rangers are in position to do so, they picked the wrong guy.

I don't think they did.

Missing on two guys in a row as highly touted as Kakko and Lafreniere is unprecedented.

It's something in the water in NYC.

 

[RangersFan1994]

I don't think they did.

Missing on two guys in a row as highly touted as Kakko and Lafreniere is unprecedented.

It's something in the water in NYC.

I don’t think they are missing on those 2. It was the awful attempt to put them in a position to succeed right off the bat. Most teams would have found a way to do this.

 

[Machinehead]

The messaging was mixed on the rebuild im not going to argue that. But McDonagh won 2 cups with Tampa, JT Miller is a 100 point player, we havent been able to replace Fast for years. Zuccarello clearly could still play. Obviously Buchnevich we shouldve kept. We traded Skjei to, who i didnt love, but Kandre is just a younger version of him. That roster just needed a new coach. I'd argue this one needs a new identity.

Break up Kreider and Mika for sure and see if that works. But Kreider is supposed to be The Man on this team and he's just not. A team that needs a confident and emotional leader and my last memory of him will be literally crying after every playoff disappointment saying "we didnt do enough". He's a great Ranger but the issues with the culture run deep and you're in denial if you dont think the only guy who has played in a Stanley Cup for the Rangers in 30 years is absolved of any blame because Zibanejad sucks 5v5. It's not like Chris is playing his heart out every night. As I said before, we shouldve known it was rotten when he wasnt picked as Captain for God knows why. Time to try something new.

Ok, maybe he's not Mark Messier in the room, and that's why he's not the captain. Does that mean having him on the roster is a detriment?

You're way too hung up on culture because you convinced yourself the roster was good in 2022 and 2023, and we've had that discussion before.

The center playing the most minutes is a do-nothing third liner and the defenseman playing the most minutes isn't an NHL player. It's not rocket science.

Nobody with good leadership or whatever the f*** else we imagine is winning with those holes in the lineup.

 

[McRanger92]

I don't think they did.

Missing on two guys in a row as highly touted as Kakko and Lafreniere is unprecedented.

It's something in the water in NYC.

Hockey isnt the most important thing to the Rangers core. Zibanejad makes music, Trouba decided to become a painter coming off an embarrassing playoff exit to a worse team, etc. Even Fox, who i think is an actual leader who cares, is putting out some bullshit podcast series with a Bagel shop. Young players don't see that and think "I have to commit to hockey". Leadership matters. And we dont have good ones.

 

[mas0764]

Ok, maybe he's not Mark Messier in the room, and that's why he's not the captain. Does that mean having him on the roster is a detriment?

You're way too hung up on culture because you convinced yourself the roster was good in 2022 and 2023, and we've had that discussion before.

The center playing the most minutes is a do-nothing third liner and the defenseman playing the most minutes isn't an NHL player. It's not rocket science.

Nobody with good leadership or whatever the f*** else we imagine is winning with those holes in the lineup.

True.

We don't have a 1C and Trouba is a literal boat anchor.

Trouba's situation is easily rectified. Some idiot will take him off our hands and probably pay us to do so. The team just has to be smart after this season ends and realize he cannot be kept.

The Zibanejad thing is way more problematic. I don't know how we fix it. He can't be moved unless he consents.

I definitely approach him and ask. But unless you are making wholesale changes, how does he sign off to go to a team that has cap space? I think you have to indicate it's a retool.

Goodrow has to go too, either pawned off for a middling pick or bought out.

I just don't know how you compete as a roster unless you go back to the draft. There is no center in the pipeline to replace Mika. You might as well trade off the 30 year olds (and the expiring goalie). That's how you'll get your future 1C.

 

[McRanger92]

Ok, maybe he's not Mark Messier in the room, and that's why he's not the captain. Does that mean having him on the roster is a detriment?

You're way too hung up on culture because you convinced yourself the roster was good in 2022 and 2023, and we've had that discussion before.

The center playing the most minutes is a do-nothing third liner and the defenseman playing the most minutes isn't an NHL player. It's not rocket science.

Nobody with good leadership or whatever the f*** else we imagine is winning with those holes in the lineup.

Kreider is part of the hole in the lineup. 3 coaches in and we really think Kreider is dying to get away from Mika? Maybe he should throw his helmet.

Im not going to argue that the roster is good enough to win a Cup at this stage of the game but look around the league. What roster doesnt have holes. We are still in first in the division for f***s sake lol. They need a culture change.

True.

We don't have a 1C and Trouba is a literal boat anchor.

Trouba's situation is easily rectified. Some idiot will take him off our hands and probably pay us to do so. The team just has to be smart after this season ends and realize he cannot be kept.

The Zibanejad thing is way more problematic. I don't know how we fix it. He can't be moved unless he consents.

I definitely approach him and ask. But unless you are making wholesale changes, how does he sign off to go to a team that has cap space? I think you have to indicate it's a retool.

Goodrow has to go too, either pawned off for a middling pick or bought out.

I just don't know how you compete as a roster unless you go back to the draft. There is no center in the pipeline to replace Mika. You might as well trade off the 30 year olds (and the expiring goalie). That's how you'll get your future 1C.

I'd waive Goodrow today. That would be a message sent by Drury. They are going to buy him out this summer anyway.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

Zibanejad has always had his warts as a player but he's never been this bad. He's actively hurting the team. Can't handle a puck, can't get a shot off, does everything so slow. Passes that are on his tape are turning into turnovers or icings. He's completely useless on the PP only there to not create movement or open up lanes and eventually turn over the puck. It's insane.

 

[Brutananadilewski]

I'd waive Goodrow today. That would be a message sent by Drury. They are going to buy him out this summer anyway.

I'd buyout Trouba and then walk into the room to tell each and every one of them that they don't have the guts or stones to deserve the C.

It would be funny if Drury said that because he himself was a joke-and-a-half as captain.

...That f***ing Buffalo series did this organization dirty. Ended up getting Drury and Gomez and let Jagr walk: got kicked in the ass, both cheeks, and then had our groin crunched by stilettos.

 

[OthmannOut]

Getting down 3-1 to Pittsburgh vibes in here.

 

[Machinehead]

Kreider is part of the hole in the lineup. 3 coaches in and we really think Kreider is dying to get away from Mika? Maybe he should throw his helmet.

Im not going to argue that the roster is good enough to win a Cup at this stage of the game but look around the league. What roster doesnt have holes. We are still in first in the division for f***s sake lol. They need a culture change.

Every roster has holes. We're not talking about just holes. We're talking about holes at 1C and 1D.

Here are the teams who are absolutely fine in both positions:

Toronto
Florida
Tampa
Detroit
Buffalo
Ottawa
Carolina
Pittsburgh
Winnipeg
Colorado
Dallas
Vancouver
Vegas
Edmonton
LA

Even some of the most garbage teams in the league have a top center and a top defenseman. We're starting Evan Fournier at point guard and me at center and making leadership the biggest problem.

 

[Fitzy]

Mika is still playing at a higher level than Brad Richards was at when we made the finals. Again I don't see a problem at the top end of the lineup (Besides Trouba being overpaid and overplayed)

It's the depth. Bonino and Goodrow have been anchors on the bottom 6. If Chytil returns and you're a 3 line team again, it goes a long way for matchups.

 

[Machinehead]

Mika is still playing at a higher level than Brad Richards was at when we made the finals. Again I don't see a problem at the top end of the lineup (Besides Trouba being overpaid and overplayed)

It's the depth. Bonino and Goodrow have been anchors on the bottom 6. If Chytil returns and you're a 3 line team again, it goes a long way for matchups.

Richards barely played more than Stepan and that's inflated by the beginning of the season. In the playoffs, he played 2 minutes less than Stepan. Richards wasn't relied on that much. When he sucked, you could bench him and the Brassard line was very good.

You can win a Cup with Mika Zibanejad existing on the roster but we rely on him too much. You have a good point about depth, but they're not going to rely on Zibanejad less when Chytil comes back. They're going right back to playing Chytil 14 minutes a game.

The other problem with this comp is that while Richards wasn't terribly effective as a individual, he could play on a good line. Zibanejad is at the point where when he's on ice, all three forwards are Zibanejad. He drags people down in a way Richards did not.

 

[Kravtsov420]

im watching the 20 second clip of gallant yelling at zibanejad on repeat for my sanity

 

[Ail]

For the rest of this year:
Lavi needs the stones to demote Mika to 3C between Vesey and Cuylle and hope the demotion and different linemates make for solid bottom 6 depth even at the absurd cost. Make Troch the 1C and Chytil the 2C, and hope Chytil actually comes back healthy and ready to play. You can't do anything else with Mika right now, they don't have the depth to bench him and there is no deal anyone is making right now even if Drury wanted to.

Offseason:
Assuming they crap the cot like we expect, try to move as much of the bloat as possible and start fresh. I doubt they can dump Mika, Trouba and Goodrow, but even 2 of them would be something. There's no way you can come back next season ho-hum without a massive shake-up.