zeke's Official Top-20 Center Rankings

[Carlzner]

Kadri + 2nd for Malkin

 

[rintinw]

Actually, the opposite is true. In the past, star players played mostly for the same team (with few notable exception). Nowdays, they play from contract to contract. It's easier to switch teams and just go chasing the Cup. It rarely works, but it worked for Hossa, Kessel, and G

In the past ten years only five teams won the Cup. In the 1960s three teams won. In the 1970s three teams won. In the 1980s -- four teams won.

That's 3 out of 6 teams in 60s, 3 out of 12-17 in 70s, 4 out of 21 in 80s compared to 5 out of 30 in past ten years. So you would have 1 in 2 chance in 60s, 1 in 4-5 in 70s, 1 in 5 in 80s and 1 in 6 in past ten years.

 

[Sentinel]

Kuz was not the #1C on a cup winner.

he does join an illustrious list with guys like Krejci, B.Richards, J.Carter, etc. as 2nd line Cs who have led cup winning teams in scoring but were never top5 centers.

Kuznetsov was absolutely #1C. He was Ovechkin's center. Backstrom was, effectively, demoted.

 

[Sentinel]

2.many players have had great scoring runs in the playoffs. especially guys like mix who got the easy matchups as Backstrom took the tough ones.

Kuznetsov centered Ovechkin. He didn't have "easy matchups."

 

[Sentinel]

You know the league keeps growing that’s what makes it harder. Also great players are often drafted by bad teams and then stick with them 10-11 years. The league also keeps growing, its mathematically harder to win a cup. Are you seriously going to argue with math?

I am seriously going to argue that playoffs matter more than the regular season, and being the 1C of the Cup-winning team matters more than all your math.

 

[Sundance]

Great list with the exception of Kadri.

 

[daver]

You understand in order to make this list applicable to everyone that the playoffs aren't factored in. How would you rank him as a center the last two seasons? His numbers aren't anywhere close to top 5.

Edit ** McDavid is the best center in the league, winning a cup doesn't magically make him better. You need a good team around you to win a cup. The playoffs are an extremely small sample to judge how good a player is.

If you want to judge how good someone is in the playoffs, playoff performances are actually the best way. scratch that, the only way, in which to judge a player. Playoffs are a different animal; they separate the contenders from the pretenders. A great playoff performance should separate two players with similar regular season resumes.

 

[VoluntaryDom]

I don’t agree with the rankings but I appreciate the effort put into them and the consistent methodology.

 

[gamer1035]

Great list with the exception of Kadri.

Numbers don't lie pal.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Actually, the opposite is true. In the past, star players played mostly for the same team (with few notable exception). Nowdays, they play from contract to contract. It's easier to switch teams and just go chasing the Cup. It rarely works, but it worked for Hossa, Kessel, and G

In the past ten years only five teams won the Cup. In the 1960s three teams won. In the 1970s three teams won. In the 1980s -- four teams won.

You skipped the years 1990-2008, how did those year go? What was it, 11 different teams? Oops, there goes your agenda.

I was expecting the agenda to be Matthews in the top-5 but it’s actually Kadri in the top-20 lol.

Stats don't have an agenda, they're just stats.

please explain why kadri is a 3rd line C.

I'm kind of curious myself.

Great list with the exception of Kadri.

There was another list discussed in the last few days, people's biggest complaints were Matthews in the top 5 and Tavares in the top 10. Now it's Kadri. It's pretty obvious that so many people just don't like the Leafs which is fine. As long as you keep spouting off with nothing to back it up it's just noise. So far not one single person has come up with a different list using different criteria, I wonder why? Is it that whatever sensible criteria you use, Kadri keeps popping up higher then you'd like?

Numbers don't lie and if the numbers keep telling you you're wrong, at some point a thinking person begins to question his assumptions.

 

[Gary Nylund]

If you want to judge how good someone is in the playoffs, playoff performances are actually the best way. scratch that, the only way, in which to judge a player. Playoffs are a different animal; they separate the contenders from the pretenders. A great playoff performance should separate two players with similar regular season resumes.

You're right, playoffs are very important but sample size is a valid concern too. Probably the best thing to do is to include playoffs and give those games more weight, maybe double the value of regular season games? If someone put in the time, did the work and showed us the results I'm sure we'd all be interested but I'm sure there would always be people saying "player X is too high so your methodology sucks".

There's no perfect formula obviously and it's also a lot more work to do that and in the end, how much would the list really change?

 

[Plural]

Looks pretty good to me. Kadri maybe tad high.

 

[Community]

We’re in agreement on Kadri. I didn’t expect it to be controversial to say he shouldn’t be in the top 15 TBH. High end number three or low end number two is where I’d slot him.

I would absolutely love to see your list of ~60 Centers that are better than Kadri.

I think if you started to write them out you would quickly realize he is significantly higher on that list than you originally thought.

Edit: Pretty sure you misread Gary Nylund's post too. He said he sees Kadri as closer to being top 15 than a #3C...

Also find it weird that everybody is claiming Kadri isnt a top 15C/is not better than Malkin (when Zeke had him 18th and behind Malkin on his list). While a guy like Staal is 16th and only positive comments about that.

 

[Regal]

Stats don't have an agenda, they're just stats.

How you interpret them definitely can

 

[Regal]

To the OP: Kuznetsov is somewhere in the Top 5. Anything lower is an insult to a 1C on a Cup winner who lead all playoffs in points.

Was Krejci a top 5 center in 2011 too?

 

[Gary Nylund]

We’re in agreement on Kadri. I didn’t expect it to be controversial to say he shouldn’t be in the top 15 TBH. High end number three or low end number two is where I’d slot him.

I misread this post last night haha. I don't agree, I'd say he's a high end #2 or low end #1. I do agree that I wouldn't put him in the top 15.

 

[Nizdizzle]

I misread this post last night haha. I don't agree, I'd say he's a high end #2 or low end #1. I do agree that I wouldn't put him in the top 15.

Any opinion that has a back to back 30-goal/55+ point center as a "high end number three or low end number two" is asinine and not based in reality. Very clear that poster has some biases they can't overcome when looking at certain players and/or franchises.

 

[jonlin]

I really appreciate the work that was put into this. Ofcourse there is a few guys who seem too low and others that seem high, but all-in-all I think you have a good list here. More effort was put into this than many other "official" list I`ve seen. Good work!

 

[Echo Roku]

Could we see the same thing with PP as well? It seems like a really weak excuse to outright cut it out, and feels like the most likely source of bias available in this.

At the very least, you could provide the ranking setup with it, as well, and let other people decide how much merit they want to give to it

 

[fragmag]

Numbers don't lie pal.

I agree!

 

[Sentinel]

Was Krejci a top 5 center in 2011 too?

TBH I don't remember who was the Bruins top center. I thought it was Bergeron. But if it's Krejci, let it be Krejci.

1C on a Cup Winner = Top 5 Center.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Could we see the same thing with PP as well? It seems like a really weak excuse to outright cut it out, and feels like the most likely source of bias available in this.

At the very least, you could provide the ranking setup with it, as well, and let other people decide how much merit they want to give to it

People keep saying you could do this or that - I don't think you appreciate how much work goes into doing something like this and there will always be people wanting something else. Include PP, include PP, include playoffs, give more weight to playoffs, don't give too much weight to playoffs and so on, it just never ends.

As I've said before, it would be nice if instead of complaining about what else should be considered, if you think something is missing then do the work themselves and show it to us.

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

Could we see the same thing with PP as well? It seems like a really weak excuse to outright cut it out, and feels like the most likely source of bias available in this.

At the very least, you could provide the ranking setup with it, as well, and let other people decide how much merit they want to give to it

Have you read the thread because he already did one for that since people kept assuming bias, it actually helps the Leaf centers as they were great on the power play. Tavares was a little bit worse Kadri was a lot better and Matthews was slightly better.

The Leafs had an elite power play why would not adding power play stats help them?

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

People keep saying you could do this or that - I don't think you appreciate how much work goes into doing something like this and there will always be people wanting something else. Include PP, include PP, include playoffs, give more weight to playoffs, don't give too much weight to playoffs and so on, it just never ends.

As I've said before, it would be nice if instead of complaining about what else should be considered, if you think something is missing then do the work themselves and show it to us.

Plus I mean he already did it.. The Leafs have one of the best power plays in the league why would people think not adding pp pts helps them?

 

[Gary Nylund]

TBH I don't remember who was the Bruins top center. I thought it was Bergeron. But if it's Krejci, let it be Krejci.

1C on a Cup Winner = Top 5 Center.

Why don't you take the names on the list and sort them by cups, I'm sure many people will be impressed. Shouldn't take much effort either so have at it. Side benefit - Matthews, Tavares and Kadri will be tied for last with 0 cups so many of those who aren't impressed will at least be happy.