Player Discussion Zdeno Chara

[DKH]

I'd go,in my lifetime.

Orr
Bourque/Potvin
Lidstrom

Yes - Bourque was near perfect in every way

Stevens and Robinson were two of my favorites

The Habs I think had 4 future HOF in their top 2 pairings at one time I believe (Robinson Savard Langway Lapointe)

Chara Carlo McAvoy next year will be 3 at same time

 

[jgatie]

And he pissed and whined when an injured Orr got MVP for the second Soviet Series. Personally,I like Potvin as much as I like Fischler,but he was a helluva player,but a distinct 5 steps down from Orr.

All that Summit Series proved was that Bobby Orr on one leg was better than Potvin on two. And yes, Fischler is an ass.

 

[DKH]

All that Summit Series proved was that Bobby Orr on one leg was better than Potvin on two. And yes, Fischler is an ass.

Fischler wrote Bobby Orr and the Big Bad Bruins and kept all the money- he was hated by Bruins

It was all personal

 

[Ivo]

Well with Carlo playing so well he and Chara compliment each others play. Does anyone think will big "Z" be inducted into the HHOF?

Phil Housley just got in. No doubt Chara makes it the moment he is eligible. I for one hope it won't be too soon, will be a sad day to see him hang them up.

 

[Mr. Make-Believe]

...

Personally... Lidstrom was always overrated. Unpopular, I know.

 

[jgatie]

...

Personally... Lidstrom was always overrated. Unpopular, I know.

I agree. Bourque was better in all areas of the game.

 

[PB37]

...

Personally... Lidstrom was always overrated. Unpopular, I know.

Yup, agreed. Still one of the best, but top 3 or 5 like I see on here? Holy recency bias. I've got him outside the top 10.

 

[BruinDust]

...

Personally... Lidstrom was always overrated. Unpopular, I know.

When some pundits put him right next to Orr as the 2 best D ever, I cringe.

I can't put him ahead of Bourque despite the multiple cups and 2 more Norris trophies.

Lidstrom just played an extremely smart solid game. Not a big hitter, not a big shooter, not the fastest guy, rarely if ever had a highlight reel play. He just didn't have that dynamic ability that a Orr or Bourque brought to the table. Zero flash to his game, just made the right decision probably 99% of the time. Not knocking him but flash wasn't his game.

We know he's no Orr, that's not even debatable.

But when comparing him to Bourque, it's also the first quarter of each guys careers that separate the two.

Bourque was essentially one of the 5 best D in the game from the time he entered the league in 1979, until the day he put the cup over his head in 2001. And he has the 1st/2nd team all-star births to prove it.

Lidstrom didn't really elevate his game to the elite level until about 96 or 97. He didn't get named to the 1st/2nd all-star team until 1998 after entering the league in 1991.

So that career gap to me, and the lack of dynamic ability, separates Bourque and Lidstrom.

 

[DKH]

When some pundits put him right next to Orr as the 2 best D ever, I cringe.

I can't put him ahead of Bourque despite the multiple cups and 2 more Norris trophies.

Lidstrom just played an extremely smart solid game. Not a big hitter, not a big shooter, not the fastest guy, rarely if ever had a highlight reel play. He just didn't have that dynamic ability that a Orr or Bourque brought to the table. Zero flash to his game, just made the right decision probably 99% of the time. Not knocking him but flash wasn't his game.

We know he's no Orr, that's not even debatable.

But when comparing him to Bourque, it's also the first quarter of each guys careers that separate the two.

Bourque was essentially one of the 5 best D in the game from the time he entered the league in 1979, until the day he put the cup over his head in 2001. And he has the 1st/2nd team all-star births to prove it.

Lidstrom didn't really elevate his game to the elite level until about 96 or 97. He didn't get named to the 1st/2nd all-star team until 1998 after entering the league in 1991.

So that career gap to me, and the lack of dynamic ability, separates Bourque and Lidstrom.

Lidstrom always reminded me of Derek Jeter. Right place right time; smooth and skilled but surrounded by greatness.

Folks should be fitted for a straight jacket to compare him to Orr. I'll take Bourque any day. Put Bourque on those Detroit teams in his prime he's getting 30/100 and oh by the way the best defensive defenseman in the game.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Pretty darn close. The only notable omission for me is where is Eddie Shore. Maybe they used a cut-off year.

Yeah, Eddie Shore is 2nd on my list.

1. Bobby Orr
2. Eddie Shore
3. Doug Harvey
4. Ray Bourque
5. Denis Potvin
6. Nicklas Lidstrom
7. Red Kelly
8. Larry Robinson
9. Brad Park
10. Chris Chelios
11.Vyacheslav Fetisov

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Lidstrom always reminded me of Derek Jeter. Right place right time; smooth and skilled but surrounded by greatness.

Folks should be fitted for a straight jacket to compare him to Orr. I'll take Bourque any day. Put Bourque on those Detroit teams in his prime he's getting 30/100 and oh by the way the best defensive defenseman in the game.

Bourque had to carry the D his whole career in Boston. Played a ton of minutes.

Lidstrom, though, was as close to mistake free as any defenseman I've ever seen.

 

[DKH]

Yeah, Eddie Shore is 2nd on my list.

1. Bobby Orr
2. Eddie Shore
3. Doug Harvey
4. Ray Bourque
5. Denis Potvin
6. Nicklas Lidstrom
7. Red Kelly
8. Larry Robinson
9. Brad Park
10. Chris Chelios
11.Vyacheslav Fetisov

The day the Canadiens traded Chelios for Savard I was in the cafe at work eating breakfast and I opened the Boston Globe sports page and saw it and without explaining to the guys I was with I just said '****ing idiots' and started laughing. Those guys are 'what? What?' And I showed them and it was damn near euphoria we were all stunned

 

[BruinDust]

Not to derail a Chara thread but interesting article in the Bourque debate. Scroll to the very end of the article.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/goes-brown-nhl-awards-look-like-using-mlb-model/

 

[Sheppy]

Not to derail a Chara thread but interesting article in the Bourque debate. Scroll to the very end of the article.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/goes-brown-nhl-awards-look-like-using-mlb-model/

That's incredible, actually. Never knew he had 15 individual awards...

 

[Oates2Neely]

Any info other than Haggs tweet? Any video of the Schwartz hit on Chara?

Let's hope it isn't serious. This team absolutely cannot absorb the loss of Chara for an extended amount of time.

 

[Coach Parker]

Any info other than Haggs tweet? Any video of the Schwartz hit on Chara?

Let's hope it isn't serious. This team absolutely cannot absorb the loss of Chara for an extended amount of time.

Oates, I don't think they could have absorbed ANY injury to Chara, Krug, or Carlo. Playing with fire and now we need some luck here with Chara's status.

 

[finchster]

I wish Chara a speedy recovery. But I wouldn't mind to see Chara out for a few games to test Carlo to see where he stands right now. #tryingtothinkofsomethingpositivewhenthereisntanything

 

[Oates2Neely]

Oates, I don't think they could have absorbed ANY injury to Chara, Krug, or Carlo. Playing with fire and now we need some luck here with Chara's status.

Between Rask's wonky hammy/ groin, Pastrnak's mystery upper body injury, and now Chara.. They are teetering. They need all three of these guys on the ice to have any chance at maintaining a playoff spot.

 

[Coach Parker]

Between Rask's wonky hammy/ groin, Pastrnak's mystery upper body injury, and now Chara.. They are teetering. They need all three of these guys on the ice to have any chance at maintaining a playoff spot.

Even with those three history has shown us MULTIPLE times that Chara cannot endure top pairing minutes for an entire season. He has worn down (and it is paired with the Bruins collapse) the last two seasons down the stretch.

With a healthy lineup this team is a bubble playoff team hoping to get in. With the addition of all healthy players and a top pairing RHD they give Tampa Bay a run for their money in the first round.

1. Montreal
2. Tampa Bay
3. Florida
4. Boston/Ottawa

...same as the previous years. Now if Boston had a top pairing RHD to push a healthy Chara - Carlo down to the second pairing I believe this team leapfrogs Florida and Ottawa and gets into the playoffs in that third spot.

 

[Bruinaura]

Maybe the concussion spotters pulled him? And then they found something? Hope that's not the case but this is kinda bizarre.

 

[Pia8988]

Here is his only shift from the 2nd from last night. One hit from Tarasenko and one hit on Schwartz. Doesn't seem be a whole lot. Seems like something must have happened in the 1st where he tried to come out and couldn't continue.

 

[Number8]

Thanks for posting this.

If you key in on him the whole time nothing odd happens and he seems to move freely the whole time -- suggesting even if it was from first period it didn't seem to be lower body. Given his knees that's good.

Still it's pretty mysterious.

 

[ODAAT]

Here is his only shift from the 2nd from last night. One hit from Tarasenko and one hit on Schwartz. Doesn't seem be a whole lot. Seems like something must have happened in the 1st where he tried to come out and couldn't continue.

thx for posting, the first contact we couldn`t see the whole way through as the camera pans to the play but your right, can`t see anything noticeable.

Either way, Z`s a tough player, if he didn`t continue to play the rest of the game, I`m not feeling overly optimistic

 

[Oates2Neely]

Even with those three history has shown us MULTIPLE times that Chara cannot endure top pairing minutes for an entire season. He has worn down (and it is paired with the Bruins collapse) the last two seasons down the stretch.

With a healthy lineup this team is a bubble playoff team hoping to get in. With the addition of all healthy players and a top pairing RHD they give Tampa Bay a run for their money in the first round.

1. Montreal
2. Tampa Bay
3. Florida
4. Boston/Ottawa

...same as the previous years. Now if Boston had a top pairing RHD to push a healthy Chara - Carlo down to the second pairing I believe this team leapfrogs Florida and Ottawa and gets into the playoffs in that third spot.

I agree, I just don't see it happening. Number one dmen just aren't easily available.

 

[tburns21]

Any info other than Haggs tweet? Any video of the Schwartz hit on Chara?

Let's hope it isn't serious. This team absolutely cannot absorb the loss of Chara for an extended amount of time.

an extended injury opens up the door for a fowler or brodin trade