Fjordy
Registered User
- Jun 20, 2018
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Simashev, by the way, thought that he would gone at number 13.
Prospect Info: Zach Benson, LW/C, Wenatchee (WHL), Signed ELC- 2023, 13th Overall
- Thread starter Chainshot
- Start date
Asymmetric Solution
Registered User
- Nov 29, 2018
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Kaprizov being listed as over 200 lbs is the biggest joke on this list. He’s not as skinny as he once was but is definitely nowhere near compact enough to get him to 200. I’d say he’s 180 tops if get had his morning breakfast and no followup bathroom. The guy is slight.
Sabre the Win
Joke of a Franchise
- Jun 27, 2013
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Bedard is already pretty jacked and still comes in 185lbs
he must be 150lbs or less without the muscle. Not sure how much more room he has left to fill out unless he puts the weight on around the waist.
PatLaFontaineASMR
Registered User
Yea I just looked and the KHL has him at 178lbs. Somehow became 203lbs his first year in the NHL.
Asymmetric Solution
Registered User
- Nov 29, 2018
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Definetly an exaggeration. If you're a football fan, a guy like Dalvin Cook is 5'10/11 and 205 and literally looks twice the size of Kirill.
CaliSabresfan24
Registered User
HOOats
born Ruffian
Didn't want to jam up the prospect poll thread with this, but I'd love to see the couple folks who watched a lot of Winnipeg compare Benson and Savoie directly. Savoie was viewed as untouchable all season, had a very strong season, and now he's firmly relegated to our #3-4 prospect. I think it can be said that while most do view Benson as the clearly better prospect, there could be a bit of recency bias re: the size of the perceived gap that has emerged.
So if you would, explain the gap. I understand the age-adjusted production, age relative to class, relative strength of their classes. But I'm curious how their strengths, weaknesses, and skill-sets really rate against each other. How much better is Savoie's skating? How much smarter is Benson? Who has the better motor? Athletic build and projection? Shot? Who projects as the more "heart and soul" playoff performer? Is there more to either than just the sum of their parts?
So if you would, explain the gap. I understand the age-adjusted production, age relative to class, relative strength of their classes. But I'm curious how their strengths, weaknesses, and skill-sets really rate against each other. How much better is Savoie's skating? How much smarter is Benson? Who has the better motor? Athletic build and projection? Shot? Who projects as the more "heart and soul" playoff performer? Is there more to either than just the sum of their parts?
The Blunder Years
Registered User
I mean he’ll probably be 5’11 minimum.
I grew until I was like 22.
I grew until I was like 22.
MOGlLNY
Registered User
- Jan 5, 2008
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I watched about a dozen or so Winnipeg games this year and this is my take:
- Part of the difference is due to Savoie’s slow start. He was playing on the perimeter too much (James Patrick even said so) and had a really bad habit of flying down the wing and centering his passes to nobody.
- Savoie and Benson both have a strong motor. I’d say Bensons is a tad higher but it’s not a knock on Savoie.
- Savoie’s skating - while very good - isn’t perfect. He has a good burst and is very good while moving laterally, but he isn’t Oliver Moore type fast. Savoie has Benson beat as a skater - but I don’t think Bensons skating is bad - just not a strength.
- The biggest difference between the two (to me) is Bensons hockey IQ and the way he attacks the game. Benson attacks the middle of the ice more often, has more of a “dog on bone” type of mentality. Savoie can be that way at times - and I thought he did more of that in the playoffs - but Benson did it far more consistently.
- As far as athletic build/projection - this is probably why I’m so much higher on Benson. To me, Bensons frame still has room to grow. Wouldn’t shock me if he grew a little and gained 15 pounds. Savoie hasn’t grown since he was 15, so he’s not going to get taller and his frame is really close to being maxed out. I know some here disagree with me on that, but he’s 5’9 179. The heaviest player in the NHL at 5’9 is 187. It makes me think that Savoie’s biggest growth in his game is going to have to be working on hockey IQ rather than improving the physical aspects.
- To me, if Savoie was going to truly project as a top of the lineup kind of player, I would’ve wanted to see him outperform Benson this year. It just didn’t happen, and while his game did improve from his draft year - it was a fairly mild increase. He was failing behind his point projections for most of the year, but rallied towards the end and had a nice playoff. To me, that did very little to stop my concerns that Savoie isn’t growing much as a player. I compare that to the leaps Cozens/Krebs did in their years after they were drafted in the WHL and it doesn’t compare well. I could certainly be wrong though and there are cases where players have been successful in spite of that. Some believe this speaks more to Benson than Savoie - which would be a good problem to have!
I have Savoie as the #2 prospect in their stable if I were ranking them with Benson as #1.
I'm not particularly lucid but I will give it a go -
Benson at this point in his development is more complete than Savoie was at the same time and in overall game. They complimented one another well which takes dis-entangling them interesting. Savoie is faster over distance and perhaps a hair quicker in short areas right now, though if Benson puts in the work on lower body strength/explosiveness, I can see him closing that gap. And it's the lack of top-end breakaway speed that is a concern looking at his overall game.
Benson has been more inside driven than Savoie from the get-go. Savoie does a lot of middle-lane stuff and goes to the net with and without the puck just that Benson does it more. Both go into traffic and draw contact as a way to create space for their linemates. Savoie's feet move a lot to get to locations, Benson is already there. Benson in pursuit is dogged and he's quick enough to get away once he steals a puck. He's also really good at being in the lanes to disrupt plays defensively.
Benson is the better passer/playmaker, Savoie the better finisher. I'd say both are somewhat of a hybrid of a center in that they can do the tasks of a traditional center though depending on deployment they don't always have to, especially when they are working together. Benson's energy and work rate and tenacity is how he gets someone with limited motor like Geekie going, Benson is doing the work to create the opportunities that Geekie could exploit. Savoie keeps himself going so in that regard, Patrick shuffling Benson to Geekie's wing to get him going was more about Geekie and less about Savoie and also all about how well Benson did that.
Savoie works. Benson works hard. That isn't a knock, it's just that his motor is really another level above. *shrug*
There is more to it, but COVID brain... blargh.
Djp
Registered User
HOOats
born Ruffian
Great reads, thank you both (and get well @Chainshot).
If either of you care to answer - what's the probability that Benson has a better NHL career when it's all said and done? Are they both safely 800-game guys barring major injury? And what would have to go right/wrong for Savoie to have the better career?
I don't know if I would ever say someone is safely an 800-game player but I can see some parallels to some smaller, high-end folks who we know from time in Buffalo in Pominville (slower, smarter) and Derek Roy (quicker) having straddled that mark. Just to speculate, Savoie needs to be in a top 6 role IMO and probably on the wing at the NHL level though we'll see. Benson should be able to play up the lineup as benefits his IQ and playmaking but his tenacity could serve in a deeper role in a lineup too. Probably the easiest way for things to break for Savoie to have the better run would literally be for someone on Benson to break.
Der Jaeger
Generational EBUG
Old Navy Goat
Registered User
No slight against Savoie but Benson has been the best player on that team since January of 22. As Chain said, Benson is the more complete player with a compete / motor level through the roof. He will be the player that you'll see opposing D take runs at because he's that annoying with the game he plays. It's going to be fun watching what he turns into when he gains his man strength
NotABadPeriod
ForFriendshipDikembe
- Oct 28, 2006
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We also have a guy named Henri, surely we can trick Montreal into wanting to trade for him!
ckg927
Registered User
The GOOD news is that, unlike Don Callis, Zach is likely not going to be a "carny piece of".....AHHHH, you thought I was going to say THAT word, weren't you? (H/T to AEW's Christian Cage for that line.
I will take a swing at this.
Benson had more points and that is all that matters to some people.
Benson is a year younger
Recency Bias
Savoie is smaller. Apparently 5'9 to 5'10 matters.
Skating-Savoie
Playmaking-Benson
Shooting-Savoie
Motor- used in different ways both are very high motor.
It is odd to me the better shooter and skater is being pushed down.
Ace
Registered User
- Oct 29, 2015
- 24,842
- 31,281
How about the fact that the f***ing team that drafted openly said he’s the best player on the ice every time they watched him play. WITH SAVOIE
This recency bias shit needs to stop. The only people trying to claim Savoie is a better prospect are the internal fan biases. And they’re outnumbered over 10-1 in the fanbase. If you’re in the group of 7 people trying to tell everyone else in the world they’re actually wrong…you should take a step back and think about that. World isn’t flat. Savoie isn’t better.
This recency bias shit needs to stop. The only people trying to claim Savoie is a better prospect are the internal fan biases. And they’re outnumbered over 10-1 in the fanbase. If you’re in the group of 7 people trying to tell everyone else in the world they’re actually wrong…you should take a step back and think about that. World isn’t flat. Savoie isn’t better.
Zach716
Pucks in deep
- Nov 24, 2018
- 4,437
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I’m just at this position where they’re both fairly close, slight edge to Benson for his motor primarily, and the best part is we get to sit back and watch how they develop instead of getting upset. It’s not like they were in the same draft and it was a toss up who to choose. Best of both worlds 
I’m just at this position where they’re both fairly close, slight edge to Benson for his motor primarily, and the best part is we get to sit back and watch how they develop instead of getting upset. It’s not like they were in the same draft and it was a toss up who to choose. Best of both worlds
Exactly. Happy to have both of them and it's especially nice the two already have great chemistry - and if they are both sent back to juniors, we can watch both of them play by viewing one team.
I mean....not to nitpick, but they said they drafted him because every time they went to see Savoie they were blown away by how great Benson was.
So....you aren't wrong.
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