Player Discussion Zac Jones

[Fitzy]

I thought I linked to the specific posts, but maybe that didn't come through. Anyway, if you really want to look them up, the 11th page is where I got called out for being the only guy hyping him. If you can't see it, maybe it's someone you blocked.

You were right to hype Fox, so credit where credit is due.

I think it's premature to assume that Jones is a superior prospect to Robertson, however. We will probably have a much clearer picture on that next year when they are both in the AHL, assuming neither are dealt.

But when I look at what this blueline needs, a steady defensive defenseman in the Marc Staal mold is probably more in need than a small, not at all physically inclined PP specialist. The 2nd PP unit in the modern NHL just doesn't see enough ice time to make that kind of role worth it. I don't know many small offensive specialists survive on a team's second pairing. It's part of the reason Bobby Sanguinetti didn't stick in the nhl.

Plus the idea of a Sask-Alberta big ol Canadian boy pairing in Robertson-Schneider is fun.

 

[TheDirtyH]

My only concern with Jones and his fit here is his skating. DeAngelo was a great fit even as an undersized defenseman because he brought an element to the blueline that we otherwise completely lack, and that's explosive quickness and agility. As it is, our d-corps are pretty small and slow relative to the better teams in the league. Tampa's speed is comparable, but the size is there for them. Vegas, same. Colorado has a much quicker defense.

Defensemen have to cover a lot of ice in today's game. K'Andre could be a huge game changer for us if he continues to improve, and especially at the rate he has so far. But Jones is a pretty mediocre skater, especially for a PMD, and he seemed to get caught on almost every aggressive play he made at the NHL level. Not saying anything about his future there, just that I do agree he's a bit of a redux on this blueline.

That said, maybe having a smaller, slower d-corps that thinks the game at a higher level than compared to the rest of the league will prove more valuable. IDK.

 

[nyr2k2]

I thought I linked to the specific posts, but maybe that didn't come through. Anyway, if you really want to look them up, the 11th page is where I got called out for being the only guy hyping him. If you can't see it, maybe it's someone you blocked.

I see one post where a person says, "There's only one guy super high on him," followed by literally dozens of posts from other people who were super high on him. I certainly give you credit for being a big proponent of his from day one, but I think your opinion of him was much closer to the board's consensus than the board believing he was goin to be a third-pair PP specialist (which I literally did not see).

Anyway, whatever. Jones or Robertson, time will tell. As I've said they bring much different things and we'll see what eventually becomes more valuable.

 

[pblawr]

You were right to hype Fox, so credit where credit is due.

I think it's premature to assume that Jones is a superior prospect to Robertson, however. We will probably have a much clearer picture on that next year when they are both in the AHL, assuming neither are dealt.

But when I look at what this blueline needs, a steady defensive defenseman in the Marc Staal mold is probably more in need than a small, not at all physically inclined PP specialist. The 2nd PP unit in the modern NHL just doesn't see enough ice time to make that kind of role worth it. I don't know many small offensive specialists survive on a team's second pairing. It's part of the reason Bobby Sanguinetti didn't stick in the nhl.

Plus the idea of a Sask-Alberta big ol Canadian boy pairing in Robertson-Schneider is fun.

Thanks.

I think there is an assumption that smaller defenseman who aren't standout skaters aren't good defensively. Sometimes that is true, but not always. Fox is one example, but there are plenty of others like Spurgeon, Orlov, Stralman, and so on.

Jones is actually a guy who played against the other teams top lines in the USHL, NCAA, and now WC. He played a key defensive role for the US at the WJC too. His teams have won with him playing that role, he's looked good defensively (at least to me, but I think it's been the consensus), he's won big awards for overall play at each of those levels, and the stats that exist to measure defense indicate he's been excellent. So everything in his career to this point indicates that he's a guy who's a very good defensive player. I don't think the heuristic that because he's a small guy who produces offense, he must be bad defensively should apply in his case.

I think people get enamored with Robertson's size, but from what I've seen he "plays small." Unfortunately, the clips I linked to earlier got taken down, but it seems like he loses a few puck battles that lead to A-level scoring chances every time I've watched him play. I think Robertson is a solid prospect, so I don't want to come across as too negative on him, but I also think he's got some stuff he needs to work on and Jones has been better defensively (and overall) in terms of the eye test, accomplishments, and statistics to back it up.

 

[RagFinMet]

I'd rather keep Jones
Lindgren Fox
Miller Lundkvist
Jones Schneider
But
If his trade value is higher than Robertson and he helps us get the C we need then im not upset
Robertson will be a fine third pair LD

 

[bobbop]

Confirmed with Link: - New York Rangers Sign Adam Fox to Entry Level Deal

That was a fun read. The same people who know hockey, still know hockey. The same people who were jerks are either gone or still jerks.

 

[chosen]

My only concern with Jones and his fit here is his skating. DeAngelo was a great fit even as an undersized defenseman because he brought an element to the blueline that we otherwise completely lack, and that's explosive quickness and agility. As it is, our d-corps are pretty small and slow relative to the better teams in the league. Tampa's speed is comparable, but the size is there for them. Vegas, same. Colorado has a much quicker defense.

Defensemen have to cover a lot of ice in today's game. K'Andre could be a huge game changer for us if he continues to improve, and especially at the rate he has so far. But Jones is a pretty mediocre skater, especially for a PMD, and he seemed to get caught on almost every aggressive play he made at the NHL level. Not saying anything about his future there, just that I do agree he's a bit of a redux on this blueline.

That said, maybe having a smaller, slower d-corps that thinks the game at a higher level than compared to the rest of the league will prove more valuable. IDK.

Jones is a very good skater.

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

I wonder if Jones performance at the worlds for USA actually gets him a spot next year or do the Rangers sign or trade for a much needed vet to pair with Lunkdvist? Trouba is really their only veteran defenseman at this point

 

[GAGLine]

I wonder if Jones performance at the worlds for USA actually gets him a spot next year or do the Rangers sign or trade for a much needed vet to pair with Lunkdvist? Trouba is really their only veteran defenseman at this point

I'm sure we'll sign a vet LD, but Jones will be in the mix for a spot.

 

[DanielBrassard]

I wonder if Jones performance at the worlds for USA actually gets him a spot next year or do the Rangers sign or trade for a much needed vet to pair with Lunkdvist? Trouba is really their only veteran defenseman at this point

Gotta think the Rangers would be somewhat reluctant to go with a Jones-Lundkvist pairing for now, so I assume they will go after a veteran LD.

 

[chosen]

Even with Hajek it should be remembered he’s still a really young guy and not a seasoned veteran. The two concerns I have with him right now is the two way game he had at the WJC and in the WHL has still yet to make an appearance in his pro game and he has the body and strength to play a more physical and aggressive game if he pushed himself and IMO it would benefit his game overall. He’s laying back a little much being too careful.

But whether with the Rangers or another NHL team I think eventually he’ll be a good player.

I think Hajek is a career AHL dman and that Jones is an outstanding NHL prospect. No comparison to me.

 

[EdJovanovski]

My only concern with Jones and his fit here is his skating. DeAngelo was a great fit even as an undersized defenseman because he brought an element to the blueline that we otherwise completely lack, and that's explosive quickness and agility. As it is, our d-corps are pretty small and slow relative to the better teams in the league. Tampa's speed is comparable, but the size is there for them. Vegas, same. Colorado has a much quicker defense.

Defensemen have to cover a lot of ice in today's game. K'Andre could be a huge game changer for us if he continues to improve, and especially at the rate he has so far. But Jones is a pretty mediocre skater, especially for a PMD, and he seemed to get caught on almost every aggressive play he made at the NHL level. Not saying anything about his future there, just that I do agree he's a bit of a redux on this blueline.

That said, maybe having a smaller, slower d-corps that thinks the game at a higher level than compared to the rest of the league will prove more valuable. IDK.

Unfortunately our team as a whole is kind of slow. Even our 1st & 2nd overall picks biggest knock against them is their speed.

 

[cwede]

UMass title game on ESPN U now

 

[Khall9]

I think Jones sticks on the 3rd pairing next year, seems like Drury really likes this team and actually if you listen to this interview part of the reason why he made the jump to the Rangers after winning the National Championship was knowing he had a chance to play on Team USA. So Drury probably added that to the pitch.
The Broadway Hat Podcast: Ep. 25- Zac Jones on Apple Podcasts

 

[OrlandK]

Seems like a open path for Zac Jones to make the team next season if he can continue on his rapid trajectory. Rangers will likely have a vet - either Smith or someone else (hopefully Chara) who he will have to compete against for playing time. But they both can make the roster. Other than that he has to beat out Hajek, who has such a low ceiling, and perhaps Matthew Robertson,who probably needs more seasoning.

 

[cwede]

I think Jones sticks on the 3rd pairing next year,...

Seems like a open path for Zac Jones to make the team next season if he can continue on his rapid trajectory....

contrary opinion, i will be hoping Jones goes to Hartford for at least ~30 games, playing all situations, it will help him be even more ready for the demands of NHL, and I don't want a Howden-type case where lack of AHL all-situation time slowed all-round development

and, (second contrary opinion) I want to see how Hajek plays for new coaching staff, apply Kakko's comments about playing for Q to Hajek, let's see his size and skill play out with GG's staff

people mock the McD trade, but I include Quinn re responsibility for the dev arc of Howden and Hajek, and Lias and Gauth

 

[patnyrnyg]

Can't just look at it as Jones vs Robertson and keep the better player. Have to consider the package they return. Becomes Jones+pacakge for Robertson vs Robertson+package for Jones. If one can bring back a 1st and middle-6 center, while the other can bring back a 2nd and a 4th line (at best) forward, does the difference between the 2 players (jones and robertson) justify keeping them and accepting the lesser package?

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Seems like a open path for Zac Jones to make the team next season if he can continue on his rapid trajectory. Rangers will likely have a vet - either Smith or someone else (hopefully Chara) who he will have to compete against for playing time. But they both can make the roster. Other than that he has to beat out Hajek, who has such a low ceiling, and perhaps Matthew Robertson,who probably needs more seasoning.

Quick question: Why are your messages always in a different font from everyone else?

To your post: I think it'll be between Miller and Jones for the 2nd spot on the left, with a veteran defenseman taking over the 3rd spot. Whether that's Smith or someone new like Martinez, we will probably find out in August but I could definitely see one of Miller/Jones spend time in the AHL

 

[OrlandK]

Because I'm special? Actually my system seems to use an awful Times Roman font so I change it to Arial (which is how all the other posts look on my PC).

Of course with a new coach it's a new deal with pairings etc. but Trouba and Miller sure seemed good together; Seemed to work for both of them. I'd be surprised if Miller went to the AHL next season. He seemed to hit a wall this past season but that may have been from not being used to the long season, and mental fatigue. I would think with a good off season of working out (I recall K'Andre is a workout fiend) Miller would be ready to build on his successful, if erratic, rookie season.

Agree that Jones would probably be better served with some AHL time. That seems applicable to almost all our recent prospects, especially Howden, Chytil, Kakko; they all would have likely developed better with some success at Hartford instead of their struggles with the Rangers. I don't understand why so much of the fan base lobbies for these kids to play (mostly poorly) at the start of their careers.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

Inside an NHL offseason skate with Zach Werenski, Zac Jones, Will Lockwood and Brandon Naurato

Zac is working out at the USA Hockey Arena with Zach Werenski, Will Lockwood, Brandon Naurato etc. up in Michigan.

The writer Max Bultman mentioned in the comments section that Jones really stood out at the skate.

A few excerpts:

The players gathered at the rink today are at widely different stages of their pro careers. Blue Jackets defenseman Zach Werenski is among them, a star just entering his prime and fresh off signing a contract extension worth an average of more than $9.5 million a year. Rangers defenseman Zac Jones is also here — only a few months removed from an NCAA championship at UMass, with 10 late-season NHL games to his name and soon the chance to break through full time. Cooper Marody and Riley Barber, the AHL’s top two goal scorers last season with Bakersfield and Grand Rapids, respectively, are also here. So is newly minted Seattle Kraken Dennis Cholowski, Vancouver Canucks prospect Will Lockwood, Detroit prospect Carter Gylander and more.

“The skates here are elite-level skates,” Jones said, “every day.”

And for players like the 20-year-old Jones, getting to work alongside players like Werenski was part of the draw that brought him back to Michigan this summer.

“You’re playing against top pro-level guys, top college-level guys, top junior-level guys every day, and it’s awesome,” Jones said. “Like I’m working out with these guys, I’m learning from them, I’m learning from pros, I’m learning from college guys — I’m learning from everybody.”

After stepping off the ice, Jones will talk about having gotten better at collecting the puck and shooting it off his backhand, and Lockwood will talk about the contrast between the loose vibe in between drills and the focused, business-like mentality during them.

 

[OrlandK]

Zac Jones is on a tremendous trajectory towards an excellent NHL career. He is well past Robertson, who is a good but not great prospect, at this time. It will be a challenge to fit Jones into the Rangers top 6, especially with Fox and Lundquist being small RHD so he very well may get traded. I hope we can find a way to make it work here.

I was disappointed that they signed Nemeth for 3 years. I would hope Jones, or perhaps Robertson, would be better than Nemeth by year 3 if not earlier.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

Zac Jones is on a tremendous trajectory towards an excellent NHL career. He is well past Robertson, who is a good but not great prospect, at this time. It will be a challenge to fit Jones into the Rangers top 6, especially with Fox and Lundquist being small RHD so he very well may get traded. I hope we can find a way to make it work here.

I was disappointed that they signed Nemeth for 3 years. I would hope Jones, or perhaps Robertson, would be better than Nemeth by year 3 if not earlier.

Yeah, this is when it gets tough.

You get these kids that develop and it was a little unexpected how impressive Jones has become after being drafted in the 3rd round. Always are hoping for an outcome like this but you cant expect it.

Regardless - the kid is very very good. He will be a full time NHL player, somewhere. And a very effective one. But with the Rangers you have Fox and Nils who are both undersized. Do you want a 3rd? Does it matter? Interesting discussion there.

What you are looking at IMO is basically a competition between Miller and Jones. Big frame, reach and strength with some unique skating skills vs. an undersized, heady, skilled puck mover and PP pointman.

Can Jones play the type of D-zone game Gallant requires? What is that exactly? Is it more suited in the pairings for Miller?

Since we already have Fox on the PP and likely Nils if he continues what he's been doing in Sweden at the point there really isnt room for a Jones, especially since Nils excels on his off side. But I feel like it would be smart to feel this year out. See what you have in the NHL with Nils, Jones and another year with Miller.

Miller's play dropped off at the end of the year. To be expected since he came out of college, but I think it would be wise to see how a guy of his size and raw skillset progresses. He need to assert himself and use his size more. If he can do that he will separate himself in the competition.

However with Jones, I wouldn't rush to a decision just because you need to make use of his value if you think there's a logjam. He still could use seasoning at the AHL level. Same goes for Barron. They rushed Howden IMO and it didnt help his development.

 

[EdJovanovski]

Zac Jones is on a tremendous trajectory towards an excellent NHL career. He is well past Robertson, who is a good but not great prospect, at this time. It will be a challenge to fit Jones into the Rangers top 6, especially with Fox and Lundquist being small RHD so he very well may get traded. I hope we can find a way to make it work here.

I was disappointed that they signed Nemeth for 3 years. I would hope Jones, or perhaps Robertson, would be better than Nemeth by year 3 if not earlier.

WAIT A MINUTE
WE SIGNED NEMETH FOR THREE YEARS??? THREE???? WTF LOL

 

[cwede]

Zac Jones is on a tremendous trajectory towards an excellent NHL career. He is well past Robertson, who is a good but not great prospect, at this time...

sorry I don't see any objective basis for the "well past Robertson" assertion,
and I like Jones, he impressed at times during his NYR games with his hockey-sense, ability to get shots through, effectiveness on the back-check., and in NCAA playing well in the biggest games.
But you can only play the games you dress for, and Robertson is coming off 2 consecutive very effective and productive post-draft seasons.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

WAIT A MINUTE
WE SIGNED NEMETH FOR THREE YEARS??? THREE???? WTF LOL

That doesn't mean he will play here for 3 years, it just means we trade him after 1 or 2