YZERMAN: "We’re building a nucleus of young prospects that are going to be part of this team."

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Tampa's the 6th best team of the last 5 years. Failure confirmed!


The "traditional" approach is getting extremely lucky in the draft lottery, basically. Maybe with a helping of a fluke superstar in the later rounds as well.

It's been beyond obvious for at least 3-4 years that this rebuild was not going to land multiple top 3 picks and we would need to build differently.


Who cares about the current roster. First round would be a success, let's have some patience before making it cup-or-bust.

Wasn't Tampa 3rd OA in 2019-2020 when they won it all?

2020-2021(the Covid season) is generally considered a wacko season

 

[Henkka]

"We’re building a nucleus of young prospects that are going to be part of this team."

Lol, is that supposed to be a revealing comment? The secret to the rebuild? It's meaningless. Even bad teams have a nucleus or the young makings of one.. At some point in their careers, every player in every team's nucleus was a young prospect.

The point you didn't understand what is the right kind of nucleus with certain character and player types. It's not whatever nucleus with Zadinas, Svechnikovs and Cholowskis, we have seen. Or lazy-boy Mantha etc.

Yzerman knows exactly what kind of player types you need for a winning lockerroom, which doesn't seem to exist at Buffalo or at Ottawa. Larkin was the start.

 

[HisNoodliness]

Do people here not realize how much bigger Tkachuk is compared to Raymond/Kasper/Mazur? What are they gonna do in the playoffs? Polish Matt's visor with their 3000 grit sandpaper?

Not too worried on the defensive end, I agree Mo/Ed will anchor the back end for a while.

Yeah it's too bad that 1 inch and 10 lbs makes someone totally unassailable

 

[SirKillalot]

I cheer for the wings and we haven't made the playoffs in 8 years.

And its gonna be like that for a much longer time with the hockey you want to see than I want to see.

 

[Euro Twins]

And its gonna be like that for a much longer time with the hockey you want to see than I want to see.

You keep saying hockey that I want to see. Who doesn't want to see their team be top 3 and win a cup?

The point you KEEP glossing over is that the ultimate goal is winning a cup, and not being the leafs.

Of course everyone wants the wings to be fighting for a president trophy. But I'd personally want to see a cup of I have to choose one

 

[OldnotDeadWings]

The point you didn't understand what is the right kind of nucleus with certain character and player types. It's not whatever nucleus with Zadinas, Svechnikovs and Cholowskis, we have seen. Or lazy-boy Mantha etc.

Yzerman knows exactly what kind of player types you need for a winning lockerroom, which doesn't seem to exist at Buffalo or at Ottawa. Larkin was the start.

Oh, I understand that very well Henkka and I too like the qualities of players SY has drafted, especially in the first round. What I'm saying is any team that over a six-year span had five top 10 picks and three more in the mid-first is going to think that group will be a part of the future nucleus of what they hope will be a good team. The statement to start the thread is no different than what any GM or fans of other teams would say in that situation, and so banal that it allows fans to project whatever they want into it. The Wings could have Seider/Raymond and six different first-round picks, and the eternal optimists would think they're on the right track. There is more than one way to build a contending team. SY is not the only GM in the league who knows what he's doing and his own first-round record in TB proves he makes his share of mistakes. There'are good reasons to be optimistic, but until we get five or six players of the supposed nucleus actually proving they're good enough, it's all just opinion and guesswork.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

You keep saying hockey that I want to see. Who doesn't want to see their team be top 3 and win a cup?

The point you KEEP glossing over is that the ultimate goal is winning a cup, and not being the leafs.

Of course everyone wants the wings to be fighting for a president trophy. But I'd personally want to see a cup of I have to choose one

How come you keep mentioning rhe Leafs but never the NYI?

Even though both don't win, 100% guaranteed all real hockey fans would much rather their team be the Leafs than the Isles

 

[jkutswings]

You keep saying hockey that I want to see. Who doesn't want to see their team be top 3 and win a cup?

The point you KEEP glossing over is that the ultimate goal is winning a cup, and not being the leafs.

Of course everyone wants the wings to be fighting for a president trophy. But I'd personally want to see a cup of I have to choose one

And it's not like the process is digital, with this magical switch labeled "Try to Win Cup", and it's stuck in the OFF position until Detroit manages a 110 point regular season...at which point it instantly flips to the ON position.

It's all fluid. You keep taking steps to get better, keep reevaluating your roster, and keep pursuing options to get closer to your goals. Sure, a 95 point team that scrapes into the playoffs is much more likely to lose in the first round than plan a parade. But 1) athletes are still hard wired to win, and 2) the experience of losing in the playoffs is a valuable step along the way, especially for the kids.

I keep meaning to dig into it, but I'd love to see a timeline for the Wings in the 10-15 years prior to the 1997 Cup, including yearly draft results, trades, free agent signings, and results (both for points in the standings and playoff progress once they made it in). I'm guessing that could help open some eyes about it not being either quick or linear.

 

[SirKillalot]

You keep saying hockey that I want to see. Who doesn't want to see their team be top 3 and win a cup?

The point you KEEP glossing over is that the ultimate goal is winning a cup, and not being the leafs.

Of course everyone wants the wings to be fighting for a president trophy. But I'd personally want to see a cup of I have to choose one

Point being, one has a bigger chance of winning the cup if one build something that is consistently good that if one build something that struggle to make it into the playoffs every year.

We are neither right now, but I would like it to be built as option 1 than option 2.

Would you rather see a team built like Colorado Avalanche (top 3-4 consistently) or Tampa for that matter, even though we are closer to building to Boston atm as we lack developed high end talent, maybe it gets there we shall see...or be a team built like Winnipeg Jets (good at its best, but really inconsistent) or New York Islanders (bubble team+ at its best)?

Now its not guaranteed that you would win the cup either way, but the chances are better if you build like Colorado that controls more games, create more chances, have more technical players and game winners than the other two teams. At the end of the day one can be really unlucky like Vancouver Canucks or San Jose Sharks and not win, and a "shit team" can be lucky getting to the finals like Montreal Canadiens.

 

[Euro Twins]

How come you keep mentioning rhe Leafs but never the NYI?

Even though both don't win, 100% guaranteed all real hockey fans would much rather their team be the Leafs than the Isles

Because the islanders don't really convey the point I was trying to make. I could have said the Rangers, the sharks, or I could have said the islanders the predators the Flyers.

Reality is it doesn't matter. I want a team that can win a cup, regardless of how they fare in the regular season.

You guys just keep missing the point

 

[saska sault]

To chime in.. would be lovely to be a top team every season, everyone wants to see your team win but I agree... if the team can be hard to play against and comfortably make it in, to save me the heart attacks come games 80, 81, 82 and be a pain in the ass come playoff time. I can get behind that.

I see us at the minimum being that kind of team, but once the salary cap clears up a bit and the kids are on their ELCs I think Yzerman and Co. will go the Vegas route and start adding talent year after year.

 

[Henkka]

pain in the ass come playoff time. I can get behind that.

I see us at the minimum being that kind of team, but once the salary cap clears up a bit and the kids are on their ELCs I think Yzerman and Co. will go the Vegas route and start adding talent year after year.

Adding talent is the Key. And playoff teams (espacially cap controlled) will interest players more, than non-playoff teams. Success cumulates. You have to build for that, not just for potential.

 

[SirloinUB]

Point being, one has a bigger chance of winning the cup if one build something that is consistently good that if one build something that struggle to make it into the playoffs every year.

We are neither right now, but I would like it to be built as option 1 than option 2.

Would you rather see a team built like Colorado Avalanche (top 3-4 consistently) or Tampa for that matter, even though we are closer to building to Boston atm as we lack developed high end talent, maybe it gets there we shall see...or be a team built like Winnipeg Jets (good at its best, but really inconsistent) or New York Islanders (bubble team+ at its best)?

Now its not guaranteed that you would win the cup either way, but the chances are better if you build like Colorado that controls more games, create more chances, have more technical players and game winners than the other two teams. At the end of the day one can be really unlucky like Vancouver Canucks or San Jose Sharks and not win, and a "shit team" can be lucky getting to the finals like Montreal Canadiens.

This whole conversation is insufferable. Of course everyone would rather have Makar Mackinnon and Ratananen than Dobson Horvat and Barzal.

I would also rather have $10,000,000 in my bank account.

Unfortunately its not so simple. Wanting those things doesn't make them a reality.

Sometimes a rebuild has poor luck and unfortunate timing. Sometimes your historically bad team gets zero lottery luck and drafts earlier than 5th just once. Sometimes your rebuild and top 10 picks overlap with weaker draft classes.

Aside from stripping it back down again (trading away guys like Seider, Raymond and Larkin) you can either pout that you didn't get your Mackinnon or you can work towards to developing the guys you do have and bolstering a lineup around them when possible.

It took Yzerman 14 years to win a cup as a player and was nearly traded away.
Nick Lidstrom won his first Norris at 31.
Pavel Datsuik Was labeled too soft to win in the playoffs. He led Detroit to a cup at 30.
Henrick Zetterberg was 26 years old the first time he scored more than 44 points.

Have some patience. Things may work out in unexpected ways.

 

[SirKillalot]

Do people here not realize how much bigger Tkachuk is compared to Raymond/Kasper/Mazur?

In 2024 playoffs Tkachuk played on a 110 point Florida Panthers which overall were ranked 4th in the league and were a much better overall team than they year before.

In 2023 playoffs there were a bubble team who got some luck, then got hot and burned out and had absolutely no chance in the final vs. Vegas, just like Montreal Canadiens in 2021 vs. Tampa.

Now one improved and the other become worse. Same with the Islanders, two conference finals in a row, yes they kept it somewhat close but not really close to being the best team in those series.

 

[Henkka]

In 2024 playoffs Tkachuk played on a 110 point Florida Panthers which overall were ranked 4th in the league and were a much better overall team than they year before.

In 2023 playoffs there were a bubble team who got some luck, then got hot and burned out and had absolutely no chance in the final vs. Vegas, just like Montreal Canadiens in 2021 vs. Tampa.

Now one improved and the other become worse. Same with the Islanders, two conference finals in a row, yes they kept it somewhat close but not really close to being the best team in those series.

And Tkachuk was totally useless/injured, on that 2023 final series, thanks to hard reverse hit from Reaves, which did some damage to his collarbone or shoulder.

That was like Vladdy killing Hawerchuk at 1997 finals. Seider will do same things in the future. And we are gonna love it.

 

[SirKillalot]

Have some patience. Things may work out in unexpected ways.

Why you chirping to me, I'm the one with the patience, the other two are the ones without.

And Tkachuk was totally useless/injured, on that 2023 final series, thanks to hard hit from Reaves, which did some damage to his collarbone or shoulder.

There is absolutely no way a healthy Tkachuk would have carried Florida to win the series in 2023.

 

[norrisnick]

Point being, one has a bigger chance of winning the cup if one build something that is consistently good that if one build something that struggle to make it into the playoffs every year.

We are neither right now, but I would like it to be built as option 1 than option 2.

Would you rather see a team built like Colorado Avalanche (top 3-4 consistently) or Tampa for that matter, even though we are closer to building to Boston atm as we lack developed high end talent, maybe it gets there we shall see...or be a team built like Winnipeg Jets (good at its best, but really inconsistent) or New York Islanders (bubble team+ at its best)?

Now its not guaranteed that you would win the cup either way, but the chances are better if you build like Colorado that controls more games, create more chances, have more technical players and game winners than the other two teams. At the end of the day one can be really unlucky like Vancouver Canucks or San Jose Sharks and not win, and a "shit team" can be lucky getting to the finals like Montreal Canadiens.

Colorado had a 3 season run in the top 4. Tampa was top 5 a whopping 3 times since 2015. Toronto which has been tossed around much of the thread has been top 5 twice since they acquired Matthews.

These consistently top 5 for long stretches of time teams don't exist.

 

[saska sault]

Adding talent is the Key. And playoff teams (espacially cap controlled) will interest players more, than non-playoff teams. Success cumulates. You have to build for that, not just for potential.

I can see Detroit in a few years starting to make those moves if the prospects breakthrough and make an impact. We will have too many young guys and not enough roster spots and our draft picks will start to get later in the round and more likely to be moved by Yzerman. Then he can start to get picky and find the pieces he thinks will put the roster over the top.

 

[SirloinUB]

Why you chirping to me, I'm the one with the patience, the other two are the ones without.

I'm not chirping at anyone. But you were among the crowd bemoaning the overall talent on the roster which is why I responded. Would more talent be better? of course.

 

[SirKillalot]

Colorado had a 3 season run in the top 4. Tampa was top 5 a whopping 3 times since 2015. Toronto which has been tossed around much of the thread has been top 5 twice since they acquired Matthews.

These consistently top 5 for long stretches of time teams don't exist.

Colorado in the West:

2017-18: Bubble team
2018-19: Bubble team
2019-20: 2nd
2020-21: 1st
2021-22: 1st
2022-23: 3rd
2023-24: 4th

This year 4th favorite in the west and 5th overall to win the Cup. Technically they could be shared 2nd as a lot of bookies have them on shared 2nd after Edmonton.

You don't think they gonna be top 5 to top 5-ish team for the next 3-4 years?

 

[SirKillalot]

But you were among the crowd bemoaning the overall talent on the roster which is why I responded.

No, I'm said we are on a path with a plan. I'm not discontent with the current level of talent cause I know why we have what we got. I know its not good enough to win, and I want them to continue to build that team that can be a top 4-5-6 team and top 3 conference for years to come, within that having multiple chances of winning a cup, and not just throw haymakers at random "stars" and hope it stick and chemistry is right.

Yes, there needs to be players added to the team, maybe some trades as well, but you don't add superstar in 2024, before you know which players get into the team, which are talents on the brink with value you could trade to other teams for a star-type player, at a point where you are going into or already are a contender.

 

[SirloinUB]

No, I'm said we are on a path with a plan. I'm not discontent with the current level of talent cause I know why we have what we got. I know its not good enough to win, and I want them to continue to build that team that can be a top 4-5-6 team and top 3 conference for years to come, within that having multiple chances of winning a cup, and not just throw haymakers at random "stars" and hope it stick and chemistry is right.

Yes, there needs to be players added to the team, maybe some trades as well, but you don't add superstar in 2024, before you know which players get into the team, which are talents on the brink with value you could trade to other teams for a star-type player, at a point where you are going into or already are a contender.

Apologies, I misinterpreted your post a little.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Because the islanders don't really convey the point I was trying to make. I could have said the Rangers, the sharks, or I could have said the islanders the predators the Flyers.

Reality is it doesn't matter. I want a team that can win a cup, regardless of how they fare in the regular season.

You guys just keep missing the point

The point has always been and is only this...do the top 5 NHL teams compete for and win more cups than the bottom 5 playoff teams...

That's it man..

It's not about how you become one of those teams, as was mentioned so ridiculously, it's just what route gives you the best odds

The rest of this discussion needs to stop

 

[RRhoads]

I like how the team is being built, especially through the draft. I don't like every contract that came through free agency, but I am pleased with the signings this year.

 

[norrisnick]

Colorado in the West:

2017-18: Bubble team
2018-19: Bubble team
2019-20: 2nd
2020-21: 1st
2021-22: 1st
2022-23: 3rd
2023-24: 4th

This year 4th favorite in the west and 5th overall to win the Cup. Technically they could be shared 2nd as a lot of bookies have them on shared 2nd after Edmonton.

You don't think they gonna be top 5 to top 5-ish team for the next 3-4 years?

Oh now it's top 5 in a conference?