YZERMAN: "We’re building a nucleus of young prospects that are going to be part of this team."

[Euro Twins]

The point has always been and is only this...do the top 5 NHL teams compete for and win more cups than the bottom 5 playoff teams...

That's it man..

It's not about how you become one of those teams, as was mentioned so ridiculously, it's just what route gives you the best odds

The rest of this discussion needs to stop

No it really doesn't. Because you seem to believe it's only good hockey if we get 110+ points.

The reality is we need to hit 100 points before we get the player that gets us to 105 points and so on.

Plus we don't know how our prospects will turn out.

You guys are burning the bridge before it's built. It's really annoying tbh. I was making a fair point that even if we don't become a top 5 team and somehow find a way to win I'll be happy and you two are like, f*** NO AHHAGHHHGH YOURE NOT ALLOWED TO ENJOY ANY PLAYOFF HOCKEY IF WERE NOT TOP 5

 

[SirKillalot]

Oh now it's top 5 in a conference?

Well, given you play one Eastern team (for COL, one West for Detroit) in the playoffs in the Final if they get there, isn't top 3-4 in the conference enough?

It's basically the same, whether you are 3rd or 6th league wide or 4th or 7th, where you are in that group, regardless of that you can only play 1 team on the other side which would be the final and the majority of the time its just 1-3 points splitting it anyway in the standings so you are quite equal.

But if you want to cherry pick level based on if a team has 107-108-109-110 points etc. go ahead.
Let me know if you can play 3-4 Eastern teams in the Playoffs as a Western Team, I'll wait.

 

[norrisnick]

All this hand-wringing about needing to be a top 5 team and it's become top 5 in a conference? That's just a non-wildcard playoff team. Yeah, you kind of need to be a playoff team to be competitive.

 

[DavidpauseReinbacher]

Look at roster and yearly point differential improvement. And no albatross on team and outside of Raymond no young draftee forwards on team. Gotta at least see them play before yzerman should be swatted. Impatience is ripe here.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

No it really doesn't. Because you seem to believe it's only good hockey if we get 110+ points.

The reality is we need to hit 100 points before we get the player that gets us to 105 points and so on.

Plus we don't know how our prospects will turn out.

You guys are burning the bridge before it's built. It's really annoying tbh. I was making a fair point that even if we don't become a top 5 team and somehow find a way to win I'll be happy and you two are like, f*** NO AHHAGHHHGH YOURE NOT ALLOWED TO ENJOY ANY PLAYOFF HOCKEY IF WERE NOT TOP 5

See that's not true man...

Nobody has whatsoever mentioned, apart from yourself, the steps/process to being a top team, nor, has anyone whatsoever mentioned, apart from yourself, whether any fans should enjoy the journey...

The whole, the entire, the only discussion was whether SY would be considered successful if the rebuild resulted in "only ever just making it into the playoffs," ie, wildcard team ..

That's it man..

Of course it dosent happen over night
Of course fans should enjoy the steps along the way
Of course nothing in life is guaranteed

But none of that was up for debate...only you went down that road

 

[FMichael]

See that's not true man...

Nobody has whatsoever mentioned, apart from yourself, the steps/process to being a top team, nor, has anyone whatsoever mentioned, apart from yourself, whether any fans should enjoy the journey...

The whole, the entire, the only discussion was whether SY would be considered successful if the rebuild resulted in "only ever just making it into the playoffs," ie, wildcard team ..

That's it man..

Of course it dosent happen over night
Of course fans should enjoy the steps along the way
Of course nothing in life is guaranteed

But none of that was up for debate...only you went down that road

As a pessimist, a realist, a long time Detroit Red Wings fan - our current course IMHO is that of a consistent wild card team - aka 'Minnesota Mediocrity'.

 

[SirKillalot]

All this hand-wringing about needing to be a top 5 team and it's become top 5 in a conference?

Is there a real difference to be honest? You are the one bringing up top 5 in a conference, rest being saying top 5-ish overall, but if the team has proven that they are good, can they finish 5th in the conference one year, sure, depending on the circumstances. Having Captain Landeskog out and other occurrences is such circumstances.

Last 5 seasons overall position in the standings 4-2-2-6-8
That is 4.4 average with this season being statistically the worst.
This is after they have become good first, then won and now continuing contender

Take this last season:
Rangers 114 (Conference & Division winner)
Stars 113 (Conference & Division winner)
Hurricanes 111
Jets 110
Panthers 110 (Division winner)
Canucks 109 (Division winner)
Bruins 109
Avalanche 107
Edmonton 104
Maple Leafs 102

You gonna sit there and say the Avs are a worse team that Bruins, Canucks, Jets or Hurricanes for example regarding contender in the playoffs?
You want to nitpick more?

Detroit still need to get to the become good status. That's beyond bubble team short term playoff 1st round fight.
But hey, as long as they finish 10th to 16th and fluke their way to a final you are happy for life right. Then they can be terrible for the next 7-10 years.

 

[saska sault]

As a pessimist, a realist, a long time Detroit Red Wings fan - our current course IMHO is that of a consistent wild card team - aka 'Minnesota Mediocrity'.

I'm not a pessimist, I'm an optometrist and I think we are destined for great things.

 

[Euro Twins]

See that's not true man...

Nobody has whatsoever mentioned, apart from yourself, the steps/process to being a top team, nor, has anyone whatsoever mentioned, apart from yourself, whether any fans should enjoy the journey...

The whole, the entire, the only discussion was whether SY would be considered successful if the rebuild resulted in "only ever just making it into the playoffs," ie, wildcard team ..

That's it man..

Of course it dosent happen over night
Of course fans should enjoy the steps along the way
Of course nothing in life is guaranteed

But none of that was up for debate...only you went down that road

And I'm telling you he 100% will be considered successful if the team wins the Stanley Cup regardless of their regular season success.

But you just don't get that. Also this thread is not about that. That's a different thread

 

[norrisnick]

Is there a real difference to be honest? You are the one bringing up top 5 in a conference, rest being saying top 5-ish overall, but if the team has proven that they are good, can they finish 5th in the conference one year, sure, depending on the circumstances. Having Captain Landeskog out and other occurrences is such circumstances.

Last 5 seasons overall position in the standings 4-2-2-6-8
That is 4.4 average with this season being statistically the worst.
This is after they have become good first, then won and now continuing contender

Take this last season:
Rangers 114 (Conference & Division winner)
Stars 113 (Conference & Division winner)
Hurricanes 111
Jets 110
Panthers 110 (Division winner)
Canucks 109 (Division winner)
Bruins 109
Avalanche 107
Edmonton 104
Maple Leafs 102

You gonna sit there and say the Avs are a worse team that Bruins, Canucks, Jets or Hurricanes for example regarding contender in the playoffs?
You want to nitpick more?

Detroit still need to get to the become good status. That's beyond bubble team short term playoff 1st round fight.
But hey, as long as they finish 10th to 16th and fluke their way to a final you are happy for life right. Then they can be terrible for the next 7-10 years.

So when you mean top 10, go ahead and say top 10.

 

[FMichael]

I'm not a pessimist, I'm an optometrist and I think we are destined for great things.

Nuthin wrong with your pov - I personally don't see it, but I've been wrong before.

I'm just looking forward to good/competitive hockey where the Wings are in each and every game and being a regular top 8 finish every April...I miss that!

 

[Fear]

You guys are way jumping the gun. This team that hasn't made the playoffs in 8 years, that completely collapsed when the captain was injured, is being built with a "winning locker room" and set up for sustained success?

You know what teams have a winning locker room? Teams that win. You know what teams win? Teams with top end talent and depth.

 

[SirKillalot]

So when you mean top 10, go ahead and say top 10.

No, I'm going by top 5, but its not as black and white for me as it is for you.

 

[Our Lady Peace]

There's too much trivial echo chamber nonsense about this team in these threads

People seem to think there is a guidebook on rebuilding a team (Colorado)... Or having previous GM experience with another team (Yzerman)... Or think that there's a definitive timeline for what a successful rebuild looks like and thus we are bound to one of or all three of these. It's not at all like that

This franchise has overall surprised us more in the past 14 months in a good way than they have since Larkin was a rookie and Datsyuk left 8 years ago

We literally have no idea what the future holds, and we've all been very wrong before. So just things roll on as they will

 

[norrisnick]

No, I'm going by top 5, but its not as black and white for me as it is for you.

That's cool. Keep pining for an unattainable standard. I'm sure it'll be a great few years of fandom for you.

 

[SirKillalot]

That's cool. Keep pining for an unattainable standard.

Okay boss, lets aim for mediocrity, sounds like a plan.

 

[norrisnick]

Okay boss, lets aim for mediocrity, sounds like a plan.

Here are the average league-wide rankings of the dreaded Eastern Powerhouses over the last 5 seasons.

4.4

Spoiler

Carolina

5.8

Spoiler

Boston

7.6

Spoiler

Toronto

9

Spoiler

Florida

9.8

Spoiler

Tampa

9.8

Spoiler

Rangers

 

[Gniwder]

Honestly....

Team can't even get into the playoffs and we're worried about 10th or 5th or finals?

You know what the team needs to win, regular season or playoffs? A 2C. This team is going nowhere unless Nate reaches the high end of projections.

Let's get back to talking about players, projections, and needs instead of some random standings target. Guaranteed Stevie isn't looking for 10th as a long term target.

 

[Retire91]

It's feeling more and more like people want to go back to the Holland decline area where you try to sign patchwork for a better immediate on ice product at the expense of ever really opening a window. Sometimes good is the enemy of great. I have patience for the team Yzerman is so obviously building. And pass on the stop gaps just for a few playoff meaningless appearances that cost the resources we need for the actual window. I hope when we make the playoffs this season a lot of this noise dials back.

 

[Euro Twins]

Honestly....

Team can't even get into the playoffs and we're worried about 10th or 5th or finals?

You know what the team needs to win, regular season or playoffs? A 2C. This team is going nowhere unless Nate reaches the high end of projections.

Let's get back to talking about players, projections, and needs instead of some random standings target. Guaranteed Stevie isn't looking for 10th as a long term target.

Really we need a 1c

As good as Larkin has become he is still better suited to being 2nd like malkin.

We may have to trade a guy like asp or mbn to get one unless somehow we can get a 1/2 c via free agency somehow

 

[jkutswings]

Really we need a 1c

As good as Larkin has become he is still better suited to being 2nd like malkin.

We may have to trade a guy like asp or mbn to get one unless somehow we can get a 1/2 c via free agency somehow

But there's maybe 20 players on Earth that fit the description of what you're looking for. And teams simply don't trade those guys or let them get to free agency.

I see two (highly unlikely) scenarios for Detroit to end up with a center better than Larkin:
* Danielson ends up as a historic draft steal; or
* An unproven center becomes available (cap casualty, demands a trade from a bad situation, etc.) and then hits a completely different gear once he's with the Wings.

I'm not banking on either. I'll be thrilled if Nate is eventually a good 2C, and hopefully there's eventually enough defense and goaltending to lean on with a good but not great group of forwards.

 

[The Zermanator]

Really we need a 1c

As good as Larkin has become he is still better suited to being 2nd like malkin.

We may have to trade a guy like asp or mbn to get one unless somehow we can get a 1/2 c via free agency somehow

Someone should tell Vegas, St Louis, and Washington that you can't win without a 1C better than Larkin.

 

[ricky0034]

Someone should tell Vegas, St Louis, and Washington that you can't win without a 1C better than Larkin.

if Larkin ever has anything even close to a 32 point playoff run like Kuznetsov did then i'll switch to any avatar you want permanently

 

[AlwaysSunnyInDetroit]

But there's maybe 20 players on Earth that fit the description of what you're looking for. And teams simply don't trade those guys or let them get to free agency.

I see two (highly unlikely) scenarios for Detroit to end up with a center better than Larkin:
* Danielson ends up as a historic draft steal; or
* An unproven center becomes available (cap casualty, demands a trade from a bad situation, etc.) and then hits a completely different gear once he's with the Wings.

I'm not banking on either. I'll be thrilled if Nate is eventually a good 2C, and hopefully there's eventually enough defense and goaltending to lean on with a good but not great group of forwards.

i know you're likely being hyperbolic, but i don't know how you can call a top 10 pick in a deep draft becoming a 1c a 'historic draft steal". half of the top 10 scorers this year were picked 10th or later

 

[Snuggs]

But there's maybe 20 players on Earth that fit the description of what you're looking for. And teams simply don't trade those guys or let them get to free agency.

I see two (highly unlikely) scenarios for Detroit to end up with a center better than Larkin:
* Danielson ends up as a historic draft steal; or
* An unproven center becomes available (cap casualty, demands a trade from a bad situation, etc.) and then hits a completely different gear once he's with the Wings.

I'm not banking on either. I'll be thrilled if Nate is eventually a good 2C, and hopefully there's eventually enough defense and goaltending to lean on with a good but not great group of forwards.

It's true, but theres only ever a handful of a teams winning the stanley cup per decade. You almost need that type of talent or pray your one of the weird outlier teams.

Top players are traded just basically one at a time, imo, if you want that type of talent, keep an eye on Minnesota and F Kirill Kaprizov.