Speculation: Your 6/7 defensive defenceman to Ottawa

[WhatWhat]

Young and could still grow a little Dallas has Oleksiak and Nemeth.

 

[Neiler]

Young and could still grow a little Dallas has Oleksiak and Nemeth.

Any insight on either? I'm not very familiar with either but they both have great size.

 

[BondraTime]

I'd want a guy who is proven and been in the league for a while. Don't want a guy who "can grow" or learn, need a guy to stabilize the 3rd pairing with 12-15 mins a night.

 

[BigRangy]

I'd want a guy who is proven and been in the league for a while. Don't want a guy who "can grow" or learn, need a guy to stabilize the 3rd pairing with 12-15 mins a night.

These guys just straight up don't exist. When I last counted, there are no defensemen of UFA age that are reliable enough defensively, reasonably paid, and not good enough to be top 4 guys. 3rd pairing guys almost have to be players who are learning on the job and trying to make it into a top 4.

 

[LiveLongandProspal]

I'd want a guy who is proven and been in the league for a while. Don't want a guy who "can grow" or learn, need a guy to stabilize the 3rd pairing with 12-15 mins a night.

Then Marc Staal and/or Dan Girardi are the ones for you!

 

[Maurice of Orange]

It's ashame the Flyers need Meatshield for expansion purposes, or I'd say Ottawa could have Meatshield for a 7th round pick in 2017.

Meatshield's cap hit is only 975k a season on a 2 yr deal, so he'd be a perfect option for Ottawa as a 7th defensemen.

 

[Jared Dunn]

Take Emelin for some salary and a pick

 

[BondraTime]

These guys just straight up don't exist. When I last counted, there are no defensemen of UFA age that are reliable enough defensively, reasonably paid, and not good enough to be top 4 guys. 3rd pairing guys almost have to be players who are learning on the job and trying to make it into a top 4.

These guys certainly do exist, it's foolish to think otherwise.

 

[rt]

Zbynek Michalek (50% retained) for Todd Burgess?

 

[BigRangy]

These guys certainly do exist, it's foolish to think otherwise.

Show me some. Show me a guy with 4+ years of NHL experience, who's not good enough for top 4, but is also not a liability on the bottom pair. EDIT: Also they need to be paid properly for a third pair role. I feel like Wiercioch would fit this, but I'm told he's better suited for #7 duty. I always thought he was passable. Bartkowski maybe, but he's trash.

Kris Russell might be this guy if he signs for less than 2 mil, but he won't. David Schlemko did fit, but now he's on a long term contract and imo should probably be in someone's top 4.

It really seems to me that most defensemen with 5+ years of experience are either in somebody's top 4 due to ability, or out of the league. If they're crap, they're mainly still around because they're overpaid and their teams can't do anything about them.

 

[BondraTime]

Show me some. Show me a guy with 4+ years of NHL experience, who's not good enough for top 4, but is also not a liability on the bottom pair. I feel like Wiercioch would fit this, but I'm told he's better suited for #7 duty. I always thought he was passable. Bartkowski maybe, but he's trash.

Kris Russell might be this guy if he signs for less than 2 mil, but he won't. David Schlemko did fit, but now he's on a long term contract and imo should probably be in someone's top 4.

It really seems to me that most defensemen with 5+ years of experience are either in somebody's top 4 due to ability, or out of the league. If they're crap, they're mainly still around because they're overpaid and their teams can't do anything about them.

Brendan Dillon
Ben Lovejoy
Ian Cole
Luke Schenn
Roman Polak
Jason Garrison

Just looking at 3-4 teams

 

[BigRangy]

Brendan Dillon - crap and overpaid, he was ass in the playoffs (one of the biggest reasons the Sharks lost imo, he just couldn't keep up)
Ben Lovejoy - is not any good and is also overpaid
Ian Cole - I thought he was best suited for a #7 spot when I watched him in the regular season, but he was good in the playoffs. This one fits. His RelCF% is pretty bad though, so maybe he was just hot in the playoffs
Luke Schenn - is bad
Roman Polak - is a surprisingly good example, but he's still overpaid considerably with regards to his actual hockey ability, his facepunching brings his contract to a more reasonable level.
Jason Garrison - 4.6 mil for that, way overpaid

Just looking at 3-4 teams

sorry if it feels like I'm moving the goalposts, I can't seem to communicate my thoughts well on HF, I should have also specified players who are being properly paid as well. Sure a player can bring play at the level I'm describing, but if you're paying them twice as much as you should, are they really an asset to your team?

All I want to find is a grizzled vet, best suited for the 3rd pair and paid like it, that isn't a corsi disaster. And then I want them traded to the Flames, because they really need a guy like this.

 

[BondraTime]

sorry if it feels like I'm moving the goalposts, I can't seem to communicate my thoughts well on HF, I should have also specified players who are being properly paid as well. Sure a player can bring play at the level I'm describing, but if you're paying them twice as much as you should, are they really an asset to your team?

All I want to find is a grizzled vet, best suited for the 3rd pair and paid like it, that isn't a corsi disaster. And then I want them traded to the Flames, because they really need a guy like this.

Jordie Benn
Mark Fayne
Jonathan Eriksson
Matt Carle
Thomas Hickey
Nick Holden
Radko Gudas
Nick Schultz
Ben Chairot
Mark Stuart
Matt Hunwick
Alex Petrovic
Tom Gilbert
Fedor Tyutin
Cody Franson
Josh Georges

 

[WhatWhat]

Any insight on either? I'm not very familiar with either but they both have great size.

Both could play bott pairing LD right now if needed. Nemeth is a little more D oriented and uses the body better and more. Oleksiak has insane reach, and can break up the play with his stick but doesn't use the body nearly as much.

I would assume either could be had for assume mid to low pick and each have 1 year 900k left before being RFA.

As of right now I'd say Nemeth > Oleksiak.

 

[WhatWhat]

These guys just straight up don't exist. When I last counted, there are no defensemen of UFA age that are reliable enough defensively, reasonably paid, and not good enough to be top 4 guys. 3rd pairing guys almost have to be players who are learning on the job and trying to make it into a top 4.

Jordie Benn is exactly that guy. Can't do top 4 but beats out the kids trying to make it. He plays left and right side and is singed at just over a million. He just isn't available

 

[BigRangy]

Jordie Benn - good one, he fits. aside: why do I always hear Stars fans moaning about him, he seems pretty good
Mark Fayne - overpaid, bad
Jonathan Eriksson - overpaid (Don't Wings fans want him traded for a bag of pucks?)
Matt Carle - was overpaid, bought out. idk if he is any good, but this could be a good pick, I remember TBL fans saying he wasn't NHL caliber anymore though.
Thomas Hickey - good pick, I barely remembered he was still in the league
Nick Holden - so, so bad
Radko Gudas - fits, but is overpaid, similar to Polak
Nick Schultz - seems ok, idk much about him
Ben Chairot - better suited for AHL
Mark Stuart - hilariously bad
Matt Hunwick - I don't really know how good he is, but he seems to fit, good pick
Alex Petrovic - ~100 career games, too inexperienced
Tom Gilbert - he used to be good, but is he still NHL caliber these days?
Fedor Tyutin - quite bad
Cody Franson - trainwreck defensively
Josh Georges - overpaid

so so far, we've got Ian Cole, Jordie Benn, Thomas Hickey, Nick Schultz, Matt Hunwick, and maybe Carle and Gilbert. These guys are way too rare. What would be the value for these guys?

 

[BondraTime]

so so far, we've got Ian Cole, Jordie Benn, Thomas Hickey, Nick Schultz, Matt Hunwick, and maybe Carle and Gilbert. These guys are way too rare. What would be the value for these guys?

They aren't rare, your perimeters and valuations are just absurd. You want top 4 caliber players on the bottom pair and won't accept actual bottom pairing D.

 

[BigRangy]

They aren't rare, your perimeters and valuations are just absurd. You want top 4 caliber players on the bottom pair and won't accept actual bottom pairing D.

I know that any defenseman who's playing on the third pair is going to have some warts, but I want players who have a passable ability to keep the puck out of their own zone. I guess most players who can do that also have the ability to play in the top 4, which makes sense.

Also I didn't realize that the 120th highest paid d-man (i.e. the lowest paid top 4 guy) was making 2.5 million last year. I now realize that a quality third pairing guy should be getting paid about this amount. No wonder that players on the 900k ELC's keep getting these spots. They have upside (real or imagined) and are basically half the price. Thank you for finding all those examples though. Jordie Benn should actually be a pretty good asset, underpaid, yet very effective in his role.

 

[13to40]

Ottawa should just wait for one of the Red Wings D prospects that will have to pass through waivers. Free pick up for them or anyone else in the league.

 

[Neiler]

Both could play bott pairing LD right now if needed. Nemeth is a little more D oriented and uses the body better and more. Oleksiak has insane reach, and can break up the play with his stick but doesn't use the body nearly as much.

I would assume either could be had for assume mid to low pick and each have 1 year 900k left before being RFA.

As of right now I'd say Nemeth > Oleksiak.

Thanks for that. Sounds like Nemeth would be the one of interest between the two.

 

[Vatican Roulette]

Ericsson
Jurco

For

Borowiecki
Ahl

 

[Once]

Hunwick & Dillon are literally your best options if you want experience for your 5-6 dman. Hunwick is reliable with sheltered minutes, i found putting him in the top 2 exposed his weaknesses more. But he comes cheap, great leader, workhorse in the gym and on the ice. Great guy all around.

Definitely holds value for the Leafs organization so it would have to be a bit more than a late round pick.

 

[YP44]

Our GM once again mentioned that he is in active trade discussions for a bottom pair guy. He mentioned free agency as well.

I suspect he is looking for an upgrade on Borowiecki. So likely a LD , solid pk defense first guy but skates half decently.

Anyone with a suggestion?

scuderi sounds like you man LA could retain on him. Would be funny to see three teams all retain on a player.

 

[YP44]

Jordie Benn
Mark Fayne
Jonathan Eriksson
Matt Carle
Thomas Hickey
Nick Holden
Radko Gudas
Nick Schultz
Ben Chairot
Mark Stuart
Matt Hunwick
Alex Petrovic
Tom Gilbert
Fedor Tyutin
Cody Franson
Josh Georges

Hickey is a grizzled vet?

 

[bert]

Our GM once again mentioned that he is in active trade discussions for a bottom pair guy. He mentioned free agency as well.

I suspect he is looking for an upgrade on Borowiecki. So likely a LD , solid pk defense first guy but skates half decently.

Anyone with a suggestion?

Why wouldnt they just sign a UFA d man like Seidenberg? Giving up assets for a 6/7 with all the free agents available is terrible asset managment. Something Dorion has been aweful at.