Proposal: Wpg-sj-ana

[TopShelfWaterBottle]

If a team wants Lindholm, they should just offer sheet him. 5.9 x 6 (8M,8M,7.4M,4M,4M,4M) 23.4M for the 1st three years for a budget team would be hard to stomach and I doubt they would be able to make room within a week to take that money so they likely wont be able to match it. The would only be a 1st,2nd and a 3rd.

That's only if he signs it

 

[Gump Hasek]

To WPG:

Lindholm

To ANA:

Hertl
WPG top 5 protected 1st 2017 or unprotected 2018 1st
Drew Stafford
2018 lesser pick if needed

To SJ:

Trouba

Appreciate the effort, but the Winnipeg franchise is largely building via the draft; first round draft picks are their currency and I doubt they've any intent to offer up first-rounders in any scenarios resembling the above. They need those picks to keep the supply of studs ongoing.

Suspect they will re-sign Trouba anyway, so no biggie!

 

[Currysux*]

The difference between Trouba and Lindholm is not a 1st (protected or not) and a top 6 FWD... No thanks.

Yeah it is. Stafford is worth like a 2nd. Lindholm is probably the best dmen other than Ekblad drafted since 2010. Hes much better than Trouba. Therefore he is worth more.

 

[Currysux*]

That's only if he signs it

Yeah I meant to put that in. But if it is about money for him I wouldnt be suprised if he signed it. If the Ducks did match that, it would mean that a big piece would have to be made available. As well, i dont think the team would have to be worried about Anaheim getting revenge either. If Florida didnt sign Yandle I think they definitely should have offer sheeted Lindholm. A Lindholm-Ekblad pairing?

 

[Sojourn]

If a team wants Lindholm, they should just offer sheet him. 5.9 x 6 (8M,8M,7.4M,4M,4M,4M) 23.4M for the 1st three years for a budget team would be hard to stomach and I doubt they would be able to make room within a week to take that money so they likely wont be able to match it. The would only be a 1st,2nd and a 3rd.

First off, why does Lindholm sign that?

Anaheim can offer him 8 years, and if we're looking at $6m per, that's $48 million total. Why would he take half of that? To actually encourage Lindholm to sign it, you need to up the offer, or the term. Or both. You haven't offered him anything enticing here. Using your words, if it's money he wants, he gets more of it from Anaheim.

Secondly, Anaheim matches that 100 out of 100 times. They'd figure out the budget later.

 

[crosscheck2]

If a team wants Lindholm, they should just offer sheet him. 5.9 x 6 (8M,8M,7.4M,4M,4M,4M) 23.4M for the 1st three years for a budget team would be hard to stomach and I doubt they would be able to make room within a week to take that money so they likely wont be able to match it. The would only be a 1st,2nd and a 3rd.

Oh, boy. You dont know the rules.

 

[Currysux*]

First off, why does Lindholm sign that?

Anaheim can offer him 8 years, and if we're looking at $6m per, that's $48 million total. Why would he take half of that? To actually encourage Lindholm to sign it, you need to up the offer, or the term. Or both. You haven't offered him anything enticing here.

Secondly, Anaheim matches that 100 out of 100 times. They'd figure out the budget later.

Because when the contract is done, he can get 8+. Rielly didnt take 5+ for 8 years. He signed 6 years for a reason. If the Ducks want to do 8 years they are going to have to pay up more than 6M. This sint like Yandle we are talking about. The more term the more money. The Ducks being able to offer 8 years doesn't matter. Hes getting paid an average of 7.8M for the 1st 3 years, is that not enticing? I highly doubt that the Ducks owners have the stomach for 23.4M for three years. Lindholm will be 28 by the end of the deal and could likely get 9x8 if the CDN dollar strengthens. Rather than 30 when teams may shy away from giving that type of contract to him. Maybe you wish they would match that but I wouldn't be so sure.

 

[Sojourn]

Because when the contract is done, he can get 8+. Rielly didnt take 5+ for 8 years. He signed 6 years for a reason. If the Ducks want to do 8 years they are going to have to pay up more than 6M. This sint like Yandle we are talking about. The more term the more money. The Ducks being able to offer 8 years doesn't matter. Hes getting paid an average of 7.8M for the 1st 3 years, is that not enticing? I highly doubt that the Ducks owners have the stomach for 23.4M for three years. Lindholm will be 28 by the end of the deal and could likely get 9x8 if the CDN dollar strengthens. Rather than 30 when teams may shy away from giving that type of contract to him. Maybe you wish they would match that but I wouldn't be so sure.

Rielly didn't sign an offer sheet. There's a difference.

Yes, and then he's getting an average of $4m the final three. Do you think he's just going to not notice that part? You're giving him more money up front, but taking it away later. That isn't enticing. How would you feel if you were at a job, and they cut your paycheck in half as you were getting more experienced? If your entire point is to offer him money, you need to actually offer it to him. Not just at first.

I can see that you're just trying to create a situation that would screw Anaheim over, but your proposal fails on multiple levels. The biggest being that Lindholm has zero reason to sign it. You aren't offering him anything special.

Edit: The point is that you've kind of created this fantasy situation. In your goal to try to create a contract that would screw over the Ducks, you neglected to motivate Lindholm to actually sign it. You're saying that Lindholm would do it if he wants the money, but you're actually creating a situation that isn't that beneficial to Lindholm. If that was what you wanted, you'd go to 4 or 5 years, or just straight up give him max term, and more salary. The appeal here isn't really to Lindholm, it's to the team trying to offer sheet him(Winnipeg, in this case). And the problem with all of this is that if you actually try to give Lindholm what he wants(assuming it's lots of money), you're either dishing out the four 1st round picks, or you're putting the offering sheeting team in a tough spot in a few years.

 

[Currysux*]

Rielly didn't sign an offer sheet. There's a difference.

Yes, and then he's getting an average of $4m the final three. Do you think he's just going to not notice that part? You're giving him more money up front, but taking it away later. That isn't enticing. How would you feel if you were at a job, and they cut your paycheck in half as you were getting more experienced? If your entire point is to offer him money, you need to actually offer it to him. Not just at first.

I can see that you're just trying to create a situation that would screw Anaheim over, but your proposal fails on multiple levels. The biggest being that Lindholm has zero reason to sign it. You aren't offering him anything special.

Unless he wants 6M + he has many reasons to sign it. I would rather get all the money upfront than have it spread out, im sure he would too so would you. I would be fine getting less money at the end if it meant I was getting paid crazily to start. My proposal doesnt fail at all your just upset because you cant handle that if it happened it would screw your team over. Hes getting 35.4M, stop acting like he isn't getting his money. Him and his agent know that. The whole point of the front loading is to prevent the zducks from signing it like the Flyers did with Weber. If its front loesded or not, hes still getting 35.4M. Lots of players get paid front loaded and make less at the end and are fine with that. Look at Andrew Ladd's contract, its almost the same structure I proposed. It was enticing to him. He seems fine with getting paid less at the end. Theres probably 30-50 other contracts like that in the league. So like I said my argument doesnt fail it just annoys you that it is possible.

 

[Currysux*]

Rielly didn't sign an offer sheet. There's a difference.

Yes, and then he's getting an average of $4m the final three. Do you think he's just going to not notice that part? You're giving him more money up front, but taking it away later. That isn't enticing. How would you feel if you were at a job, and they cut your paycheck in half as you were getting more experienced? If your entire point is to offer him money, you need to actually offer it to him. Not just at first.

I can see that you're just trying to create a situation that would screw Anaheim over, but your proposal fails on multiple levels. The biggest being that Lindholm has zero reason to sign it. You aren't offering him anything special.

I know but your saying the Ducks can offer Lindholm 6x8. That wouldn't be an offer sheet.

 

[Currysux*]

Rielly didn't sign an offer sheet. There's a difference.

Yes, and then he's getting an average of $4m the final three. Do you think he's just going to not notice that part? You're giving him more money up front, but taking it away later. That isn't enticing. How would you feel if you were at a job, and they cut your paycheck in half as you were getting more experienced? If your entire point is to offer him money, you need to actually offer it to him. Not just at first.

I can see that you're just trying to create a situation that would screw Anaheim over, but your proposal fails on multiple levels. The biggest being that Lindholm has zero reason to sign it. You aren't offering him anything special.

Edit: The point is that you've kind of created this fantasy situation. In your goal to try to create a contract that would screw over the Ducks, you neglected to motivate Lindholm to actually sign it. You're saying that Lindholm would do it if he wants the money, but you're actually creating a situation that isn't that beneficial to Lindholm. If that was what you wanted, you'd go to 4 or 5 years, or just straight up give him max term, and more salary. The appeal here isn't really to Lindholm, it's to the team trying to offer sheet him(Winnipeg, in this case).

Like I said it is beneficial to Lindholm he gets the majority of the money up front. Its not a fantasy situation, the exact same thing happened with Shea Weber. Hes 22, most people his age want as much money as they can get right away. Im practically the same age as him and most people only do things because rhthey are in it for the money. I would rather get paid $78K and get $1K for each month than $90K spread out throughout the year.

 

[Sojourn]

I know but your saying the Ducks can offer Lindholm 6x8. That wouldn't be an offer sheet.

Which isn't relevant to my point.

Unless he wants 6M + he has many reasons to sign it. I would rather get all the money upfront than have it spread out, im sure he would too so would you. I would be fine getting less money at the end if it meant I was getting paid crazily to start. My proposal doesnt fail at all your just upset because you cant handle that if it happened it would screw your team over. Hes getting 35.4M, stop acting like he isn't getting his money. Him and his agent know that. The whole point of the front loading is to prevent the zducks from signing it like the Flyers did with Weber. If its front loesded or not, hes still getting 35.4M. Lots of players get paid front loaded and make less at the end and are fine with that. Look at Andrew Ladd's contract, its almost the same structure I proposed. It was enticing to him. He seems fine with getting paid less at the end. Theres probably 30-50 other contracts like that in the league. So like I said my argument doesnt fail it just annoys you that it is possible.

You're talking about a professional athlete, who needs to maximize his earning potential because his career is risky, and rather short-term. If I have the choice between 48 million, and 36 million, I'm taking the former. Hockey is a tough sport. A lot can happen in 6 years. And if I were betting on myself to cash in on the next contract, I'd still need more motivation to not accept what Anaheim is likely offering. Like I said, it's not that enticing.

I'm not in the least bit upset. Your scenario is fantasy. If that's all it would take, why has no team done it? Why don't other teams do it? Weber's contract can't happen anymore. And your Ladd example? He's 30. That's also a terrible contract.

Like I said it is beneficial to Lindholm he gets the majority of the money up front. Its not a fantasy situation, the exact same thing happened with Shea Weber. Hes 22, most people his age want as much money as they can get right away. Im practically the same age as him and most people only do things because rhthey are in it for the money. I would rather get paid $78K and get $1K for each month than $90K spread out throughout the year.

Edit: Shea Weber signed a contract worth $110 million. And he got $80m of that in the first 6 years. Do you really not see the difference there? That's enticing. What you're offering Lindholm is just slightly above average for a young player of his ability.

And as for what you would take... that's just poor planning, man. You're taking less money, and you're also putting yourself into a situation to be wildly irresponsible. Lindholm seems like a pretty intelligent guy. I suspect he'd rather look at things long-term.

 

[Pongs21]

Yeah it is. Stafford is worth like a 2nd. Lindholm is probably the best dmen other than Ekblad drafted since 2010. Hes much better than Trouba. Therefore he is worth more.

I didn't dispute that he wasn't worth more, I did however dispute that the difference between Trouba and Lindholm is not a top 6 FWD and a 1st.

 

[Currysux*]

Which isn't relevant to my point.



You're talking about a professional athlete, who needs to maximize his earning potential because his career is risky, and rather short-term. If I have the choice between 48 million, and 36 million, I'm taking the former. Hockey is a tough sport. A lot can happen in 6 years. And if I were betting on myself to cash in on the next contract, I'd still need more motivation to not accept what Anaheim is likely offering. Like I said, it's not that enticing.

I'm not in the least bit upset. Your scenario is fantasy. If that's all it would take, why has no team done it? Why don't other teams do it? Weber's contract can't happen anymore. And your Ladd example? He's 30. That's also a terrible contract.



Edit: Shea Weber signed a contract worth $110 million. And he got $80m of that in the first 6 years. Do you really not see the difference there? That's enticing. What you're offering Lindholm is just slightly above average for a young player of his ability.

And as for what you would take... that's just poor planning, man. You're taking less money, and you're also putting yourself into a situation to be wildly irresponsible. Lindholm seems like a pretty intelligent guy. I suspect he'd rather look at things long-term.

Do you pay attention to teams outside of Anaheim? Multiple players opt for shorter deals with less money so they cash in big time while they are in their prime. Thats why I used Rielly as an example, he could've gotten 5.5M per for 8 years but took 5M for 6 because he will be 28 when it expires and could get 7x8. Barkov is another, he took like 6M for 6 years when he could've gotten 6.5 or close to that for 8 years but didn't because he will be 27 and will get an 8x8 contract. Teams are beginning to shy away nowadays from giving those types of deals to 29/30 year olds. The contract Lindholm gets wont be his last deal, he will be paid more later. A 6 year deal sets himself better than an 8 year deal.

 

[Currysux*]

Which isn't relevant to my point.



You're talking about a professional athlete, who needs to maximize his earning potential because his career is risky, and rather short-term. If I have the choice between 48 million, and 36 million, I'm taking the former. Hockey is a tough sport. A lot can happen in 6 years. And if I were betting on myself to cash in on the next contract, I'd still need more motivation to not accept what Anaheim is likely offering. Like I said, it's not that enticing.

I'm not in the least bit upset. Your scenario is fantasy. If that's all it would take, why has no team done it? Why don't other teams do it? Weber's contract can't happen anymore. And your Ladd example? He's 30. That's also a terrible contract.



Edit: Shea Weber signed a contract worth $110 million. And he got $80m of that in the first 6 years. Do you really not see the difference there? That's enticing. What you're offering Lindholm is just slightly above average for a young player of his ability.

And as for what you would take... that's just poor planning, man. You're taking less money, and you're also putting yourself into a situation to be wildly irresponsible. Lindholm seems like a pretty intelligent guy. I suspect he'd rather look at things long-term.

Weber got like a 110M obviously the money is going to be bigger than Lindholm if he is getting 35M. 80M of 110 is around 70% so is 23.4M of 35.5M.

 

[Ducksgo*]

Anaheim will not let Lindholm go for anything short of a humongous overpayment.

And this certainly isn't it. I also stop reading when picks are involved 2 years later when they can be used.

 

[Ducksgo*]

I know but your saying the Ducks can offer Lindholm 6x8. That wouldn't be an offer sheet.

I wouldn't argue with Sojourn. He's actually making complete sense regarding offer sheets and term per dollar than you are. I'm completely confused what you continue to reiterate on.

 

[Sojourn]

Do you pay attention to teams outside of Anaheim? Multiple players opt for shorter deals with less money so they cash in big time while they are in their prime. Thats why I used Rielly as an example, he could've gotten 5.5M per for 8 years but took 5M for 6 because he will be 28 when it expires and could get 7x8. Barkov is another, he took like 6M for 6 years when he could've gotten 6.5 or close to that for 8 years but didn't because he will be 27 and will get an 8x8 contract. Teams are beginning to shy away nowadays from giving those types of deals to 29/30 year olds. The contract Lindholm gets wont be his last deal, he will be paid more later. A 6 year deal sets himself better than an 8 year deal.

And a 4 year deal would set himself up even better, using that logic. Which goes back to enticing Lindholm. An offer sheet isn't just an offer. It's a commitment. You can't negotiate with Lindholm. He can't negotiate with you.

I do pay attention, and none of them signed offer sheets. Your example was Shea freaking Weber, who signed an offer sheet worth $110 million, and that paid him more than 3/4's of it over the first 6 years. Seriously, that's not a good example. Weber stood to earn a good NHL career's worth of money in 6 years.

Alternatively, you might consider looking at someone like Penner, who just wasn't deemed worth his contract by Anaheim. I suppose you could look at Vanek too. Except that probably wouldn't fit your criteria. His compensation, equivalent to today, would be four 1sts. Your fantasy scenario is fantasy because Lindholm has little reason to sign it, and the reason for that is because you aren't giving him an offer good enough, and the reason for that is because you're trying to keep the compensation down.

 

[go4hockey]

If a team wants Lindholm, they should just offer sheet him. 5.9 x 6 (8M,8M,7.4M,4M,4M,4M) 23.4M for the 1st three years for a budget team would be hard to stomach and I doubt they would be able to make room within a week to take that money so they likely wont be able to match it. The would only be a 1st,2nd and a 3rd.

You seriously can't think ANA would let him go on a offer like this. They match intently and the back years he would be one of the biggest bargains as far as money being paid.

 

[go4hockey]

I know but your saying the Ducks can offer Lindholm 6x8. That wouldn't be an offer sheet.

Offer sheets are rarely signed and work even less. Your not going to get a guy like Lindholm with an offer sheet the argument is very silly. But keep the unrealistic dream alive.

 

[Ducks in a row]

Why would the Sharks want to trade their top young forward for a Defenseman who has not and likely never will score 30 points a season? One dimensional defensemen are a dime a dozen.

Trouba is barely worth a 2nd.

and lol @ Lindholm being any better.

So your saying Trouba is one dimensional defenseman barely worth a 2nd then lol Lindholm being any better Lindholm is better then Trouba he has 2 seasons reaching the 30 point mark that you say Trouba will never reach and is also better defensively you need to learn how to better judge defenseman.

 

[Ducksgo*]

Offer sheets are rarely signed and work even less. Your not going to get a guy like Lindholm with an offer sheet the argument is very silly. But keep the unrealistic dream alive.

Murray wouldn't let that happen to begin with. If he had to sign Lindholm to league max he would do it. He's the best defenseman drafted since 2012 and obviously that's arguable, but the point still remains. Murray would be fired before not offering league max he's the heart and soul of our defense and it's make or break with him.

 

[hohosaregood]

So your saying Trouba is one dimensional defenseman barely worth a 2nd then lol Lindholm being any better Lindholm is better then Trouba he has 2 seasons reaching the 30 point mark that you say Trouba will never reach and is also better defensively you need to learn how to better judge defenseman.

Bizz is the most knowledgeable Sharks fan I know. If he says it then he's probably right.

 

[JetsHomer]

Bizz is the most knowledgeable Sharks fan I know. If he says it then he's probably right.

Yeah he's probably right, the guy who scored 29 points in 65 games as a 19 year old rookie will never score 30 points. Bizz's opinions seem very legitimate.

 

[hohosaregood]

Yeah he's probably right, the guy who scored 29 points in 65 games as a 19 year old rookie will never score 30 points. Bizz's opinions seem very legitimate.

then proceeded to score less and less the next two seasons