Proposal: Wpg - mtl

[Gump Hasek]

I think the issue here is that Lowry and Dano are pretty awesome depth players, and to some fans may not be worth losing.

Wrong. The issue is that top-4 D are worth more than depth forwards, and especially given that the Jets have a wealth of extra forwards at present.

The Jets can keep their D and replace any lost forward in-house, so they don't need to do a trade, thanks.

 

[Oleg Petrov]

Wrong. The issue is that top-4 D are worth more than depth forwards, and especially given that the Jets have a wealth of extra forwards at present.

The Jets can keep their D and replace any lost forward in-house, so they don't need to do a trade, thanks.

Calm down.

As was recently pointed out. The difference between Enstrom and Emelin may well be worth NOT losing Dano or Lowry.

As it stands, Dano or Lowry are gone, no doubt about it. I agree that Winnipeg has the forward depth to absorb that loss, so in the end I probably don't do it either. But, to say my point is unequivocally wrong is kinda BS.

 

[Gump Hasek]

Calm down.

As was recently pointed out. The difference between Enstrom and Emelin may well be worth NOT losing Dano or Lowry.

As it stands, Dano or Lowry are gone, no doubt about it. I agree that Winnipeg has the forward depth to absorb that loss, so in the end I probably don't do it either. But, to say my point is unequivocally wrong is kinda BS.

Can assure you am completely calm. Your own need to read emotion into the words of others however suggests that you likely don't take rejection well.

I'm the guy that would trade Enstrom in a heartbeat, FYI. Montreal just doesn't have much that is appealing in any theoretical return though, frankly.

Still a pass from Winnipeg.

 

[Oleg Petrov]

Can assure you am completely calm. Your own need to read emotion into the words of others however suggests that you likely don't take rejection well.

I'm the guy that would trade Enstrom in a heartbeat, FYI. Montreal just doesn't have much that is appealing in any theoretical return though, frankly.

Still a pass from Winnipeg.

Alrighty. No skin of my nose.

 

[Jeti]

Calm down.

As was recently pointed out. The difference between Enstrom and Emelin may well be worth NOT losing Dano or Lowry.

As it stands, Dano or Lowry are gone, no doubt about it. I agree that Winnipeg has the forward depth to absorb that loss, so in the end I probably don't do it either. But, to say my point is unequivocally wrong is kinda BS.

First of all, Enstrom is worth way more to the Jets than Emelin + Dano/Lowry. Easily. I'm not even a big Enstrom fan, I just realize they have no other good LHD, they've got tons of forward prospects ready and Emelin is a bottom pairing defenseman and nothing more.

Secondly, they still have to lose someone to Vegas even if they made that trade. You're ignoring that entirely.

 

[Oleg Petrov]

First of all, Enstrom is worth way more to the Jets than Emelin + Dano/Lowry. Easily. I'm not even a big Enstrom fan, I just realize they have no other good LHD, they've got tons of forward prospects ready and Emelin is a bottom pairing defenseman and nothing more.

Secondly, they still have to lose someone to Vegas even if they made that trade. You're ignoring that entirely.

I'm not. As was stated, they'll lose Copp, Matthias or Emelin instead of Dano or Lowry.

The question is as follows. Is the difference between Emelin and Enstrom greater than the difference between Dano and Matthias/Copp? If it is..then you don't do the trade, but if it's close you have to consider it.

Again, as I had previously stated, I think MTL adds here to get this deal done now or potentially at the deadline. Throw in a nice draft pick or an expansion draft exempt prospect.

Also, there is a gap in age and cost in these players. For a cost conscious team like Winnipeg, this matters.

Lastly - I agree with Winnipeg fans for the most part that the hole on the left side is too big to fill and that their forward depth will fill any loss in expansion. However, If Morrissey has a good camp and MTL sweetens with the right pick or prospect, I can easily see this being something they would consider.

 

[phlocky]

one year left at $6.0. That seems like poor asset management by Vegas.

You are forgetting that Vegas could take him and then trade him at the deadline for a 1st plus. THAT is good asset management.

 

[JetsHomer]

I'm not. As was stated, they'll lose Copp, Matthias or Emelin instead of Dano or Lowry.

The question is as follows. Is the difference between Emelin and Enstrom greater than the difference between Dano and Matthias/Copp? If it is..then you don't do the trade, but if it's close you have to consider it.

Again, as I had previously stated, I think MTL adds here to get this deal done now or potentially at the deadline. Throw in a nice draft pick or an expansion draft exempt prospect.

Also, there is a gap in age and cost in these players. For a cost conscious team like Winnipeg, this matters.

Lastly - I agree with Winnipeg fans for the most part that the hole on the left side is too big to fill and that their forward depth will fill any loss in expansion. However, If Morrissey has a good camp and MTL sweetens with the right pick or prospect, I can easily see this being something they would consider.

I would rank them in terms of value

Enstrom > Dano > Lowry > Copp > Mathias > Emelin

So ya not a very hard choice. Nobody wants Emelin. He's a cap dump at this point

 

[Oleg Petrov]

I would rank them in terms of value

Enstrom > Dano > Lowry > Copp > Mathias > Emelin

So ya not a very hard choice. Nobody wants Emelin. He's a cap dump at this point

In terms of age, cap-hit, production and the so sagely advised value of top 4 d-men. I would go:

Dano
Enstrom
Emelin
Lowry
Copp
Matthias

 

[Moon Man]

I'm not. As was stated, they'll lose Copp, Matthias or Emelin instead of Dano or Lowry.

The question is as follows. Is the difference between Emelin and Enstrom greater than the difference between Dano and Matthias/Copp? If it is..then you don't do the trade, but if it's close you have to consider it.

Again, as I had previously stated, I think MTL adds here to get this deal done now or potentially at the deadline. Throw in a nice draft pick or an expansion draft exempt prospect.

Also, there is a gap in age and cost in these players. For a cost conscious team like Winnipeg, this matters.

Lastly - I agree with Winnipeg fans for the most part that the hole on the left side is too big to fill and that their forward depth will fill any loss in expansion. However, If Morrissey has a good camp and MTL sweetens with the right pick or prospect, I can easily see this being something they would consider.

This is why this trade makes absolutely zero sense from a Jets stand point. You're basically saying we'll end up losing both Enstrom and the guy we traded Enstrom for. We'll lose everything and gain nothing.

Everyone will lose a player to Vegas. Why lose two? What's an even greater crap storm is why we would choose to lose two players in the position we have the least depth in. This trade proposal is 100% horrid for the Jets. Montreal would have to add massively, but honestly if I'm the GM of the Jets and I here another GM call me up and say, "hey, you're going to lose a player to Vegas, why not give us a good one, we'll give you a much worse one, then you can just lose that much worse one instead" I would laugh, hang up, and block the caller ID.

 

[Oleg Petrov]

This is why this trade makes absolutely zero sense from a Jets stand point. You're basically saying we'll end up losing both Enstrom and the guy we traded Enstrom for. We'll lose everything and gain nothing.

Everyone will lose a player to Vegas. Why lose two? What's an even greater crap storm is why we would choose to lose two players in the position we have the least depth in. This trade proposal is 100% horrid for the Jets. Montreal would have to add massively, but honestly if I'm the GM of the Jets and I here another GM call me up and say, "hey, you're going to lose a player to Vegas, why not give us a good one, we'll give you a much worse one, then you can just lose that much worse one instead" I would laugh, hang up, and block the caller ID.

I'm not "basically" saying that at all. Outside chance Emelin gets claimed, but I doubt it for the same reasons that if Enstrom was available he wouldn't get claimed either.

You're missing the point. Not once here have you mentioned Marko Dano or Adam Lowry. They are the reason you do this, it has nothing to do with Emelin.

As was previously given as an example:

Trade Enstrom gain Emelin and keep Lowry/Dano

Or

Keep Enstrom and lose one of Lowry/Copp/Dano

If WPG goes 4/4 they protect:

Byfuglien, Enstrom, Myers, Trouba
Scheifele, Little, Wheeler, Perrault
Leaving a plethora of very good forwards available

If WPG goes 7/3
Byfuglien, Myers, Trouba
Scheifele, Little, Wheeler, Perrault, Lowry, Dano, Copp

Avail: Emelin, Armia, Stafford

 

[Maukkis]

I'm not "basically" saying that at all. Outside chance Emelin gets claimed, but I doubt it for the same reasons that if Enstrom was available he wouldn't get claimed either.

You're missing the point. Not once here have you mentioned Marko Dano or Adam Lowry. They are the reason you do this, it has nothing to do with Emelin.

As was previously given as an example:

Trade Enstrom gain Emelin and keep Lowry/Dano

Or

Keep Enstrom and lose one of Lowry/Copp/Dano

If WPG goes 4/4 they protect:

Byfuglien, Enstrom, Myers, Trouba
Scheifele, Little, Wheeler, Perrault
Leaving a plethora of very good forwards available

If WPG goes 7/3
Byfuglien, Myers, Trouba
Scheifele, Little, Wheeler, Perrault, Lowry, Dano, Copp

Avail: Emelin, Armia, Stafford

I could just say that Chevy "is content with the current top 4, and he addressed the LHD depth by acquiring Strait". But I don't think you would understand that, so let's go a bit more in-depth.

If we do this trade, we no longer have a top 4 LHD. What that does is a) forces Trouba to play as a LHD, which might become problematic if he specifically wants to play on his natural side, b) forces us to use Myers way too much from the start of the season, which will again be problematic with his surgery concerns, and c) forces Morrissey to play in the top 4 with NO ONE to shelter him with, aside from Trouba.

We'd look like this.

Trouba-Buff
Morrissey-Myers
Emelin-Chiarot


We don't know which Myers we're getting - the one we know from the year's worth of games he's played with us, or the one who struggles with the same workload he has had before surgeries. And he won't have Enstrom to help him out - instead, we have a rookie with a whopping one game of NHL experience. He has to fill the shoes of a 21 minutes a night, top 4 defenseman. A fantastic idea, isn't it? At that point, having Emelin around is kind of redundant. He is a good #5D to have, although overpaid, but having a #5 means very little if your top 4 is not looking healthy.

Do you honestly think that after the expansion, with Enstrom and without Dano or whoever gets picked, we would be better off than with that defense, Dano and no "Armia"?

We will not be losing anyone who we couldn't comfortably replace in-house in either scenario. So, tell me: why the hell should we downgrade our defense and create a massive liability?

 

[Oleg Petrov]

I could just say that Chevy "is content with the current top 4, and he addressed the LHD depth by acquiring Strait". But I don't think you would understand that, so let's go a bit more in-depth.

If we do this trade, we no longer have a top 4 LHD. What that does is a) forces Trouba to play as a LHD, which might become problematic if he specifically wants to play on his natural side, b) forces us to use Myers way too much from the start of the season, which will again be problematic with his surgery concerns, and c) forces Morrissey to play in the top 4 with NO ONE to shelter him with, aside from Trouba.

We'd look like this.

Trouba-Buff
Morrissey-Myers
Emelin-Chiarot


We don't know which Myers we're getting - the one we know from the year's worth of games he's played with us, or the one who struggles with the same workload he has had before surgeries. And he won't have Enstrom to help him out - instead, we have a rookie with a whopping one game of NHL experience. He has to fill the shoes of a 21 minutes a night, top 4 defenseman. A fantastic idea, isn't it? At that point, having Emelin around is kind of redundant. He is a good #5D to have, although overpaid, but having a #5 means very little if your top 4 is not looking healthy.

Do you honestly think that after the expansion, with Enstrom and without Dano or whoever gets picked, we would be better off than with that defense, Dano and no "Armia"?

We will not be losing anyone who we couldn't comfortably replace in-house in either scenario. So, tell me: why the hell should we downgrade our defense and create a massive liability?

I have previously stated in this thread that I agree with that logic. I only come in here to defend myself when people start calling out the trade as awful and absent of any sense.

The trade makes sense if you value Dano highly, that's the only point I'm trying to make here.

 

[Maukkis]

I have previously stated in this thread that I agree with that logic. I only come in here to defend myself when people start calling out the trade as awful and absent of any sense.

The trade makes sense if you value Dano highly, that's the only point I'm trying to make here.

It makes very little sense and barring an astronomical breakout from Dano, we will not end up winning that trade in short term, when we have to become contenders (basically before Buff starts to lose his step and the cap crunch hits us badly). It is not completely awful, but it does very little to make us better. Montreal seems to benefit quite a bit though.

 

[lomiller1]

I think the issue here is that Lowry and Dano are pretty awesome depth players, and to some fans may not be worth losing.

Every team is going to lose someone. Giving up a top pairing D in order to lose a slightly worse depth forward doesn’t make a lot of sense.

 

[Moon Man]

Every team is going to lose someone. Giving up a top pairing D in order to lose a slightly worse depth forward doesn’t make a lot of sense.

Completely agree. Was the point I was trying to make.

 

[Huffer]

You're missing the point. Not once here have you mentioned Marko Dano or Adam Lowry. They are the reason you do this, it has nothing to do with Emelin.

If the purpose of trading Enstrom is to be able to keep more players in the expansion draft (not saying I'm against it as a reason btw), wouldn't it make much more sense for the Jets to trade Enstrom for a return that would at least be a longer term asset?

Nothing against Emelin, but if the sole purpose from the Jets POV is to move Enstrom to gain more spots for forwards for expansion purposes, a pick is likely more valuable in that case than Emelin. Under the assumption that Emilin himself is either A) Claimed, or B) not extended. At least that pick (or prospect) would be around longer term. The short term problem of losing Enstrom would be better left to a short term UFA IMO, if that meant the trade return was a future asset. Rather than having the trade return be a short term asset.

 

[JetsHomer]

It makes very little sense and barring an astronomical breakout from Dano, we will not end up winning that trade in short term, when we have to become contenders (basically before Buff starts to lose his step and the cap crunch hits us badly). It is not completely awful, but it does very little to make us better. Montreal seems to benefit quite a bit though.

I'm gonna disagree with you. It's completly awful for the Jets, plain and simple

 

[Grind]

I'd explore trading Meyers for a lesser D that we don't have to protect.

I'd be all over that...

 

[Pongs21]

Trade us your top pairing LHD for our bottom pairing LHD so you can save one of your bottom 6 forwards come the expansion draft! come on its a really good deal for you guys!

 

[CristianoRonaldo]

Trade us your top pairing LHD for our bottom pairing LHD so you can save one of your bottom 6 forwards come the expansion draft! come on its a really good deal for you guys!

Emelin was not our bottom pairing LHD...

 

[Pongs21]

Emelin was not our bottom pairing LHD...
Pacioretty - Galchenyuk - Radulov
Carr\Andri\Lehkonen - Plekanec - Gallagher
Carr\Andri\Lehkonen - Mccaron - Shaw
Byron - Mitchell - Danault/Flynn

Beaulieu - Weber
Markov - Petry
Emelin - Pateryn

Maybe not last year but what about this year? The bolded above is what you think the lines should be next year, as this is what you posted... The majority of your fan base on this board seems to think he should be on the bottom pairing or the 7th/8th D man. So again, top pairing LHD for bottom pairing.

 

[angry pirate]

Maybe not last year but what about this year? The bolded above is what you think the lines should be next year, as this is what you posted... The majority of your fan base on this board seems to think he should be on the bottom pairing or the 7th/8th D man. So again, top pairing LHD for bottom pairing.

Emelin is a middle pairing D. This issue in Montreal is that we believe we need a mobile D on the top pairing to compliment Weber ala Beaulieu. There is no way Markov is going to be a bottom pairing D. So Emelin slots in there by default. If we still had Subban than Marlov would be on the top pair with Emelin playing with Petry on then 2nd.

 

[Oleg Petrov]

Emelin is a middle pairing D. This issue in Montreal is that we believe we need a mobile D on the top pairing to compliment Weber ala Beaulieu. There is no way Markov is going to be a bottom pairing D. So Emelin slots in there by default. If we still had Subban than Marlov would be on the top pair with Emelin playing with Petry on then 2nd.

Pretty much this.

He's a solid 2nd/3rd pairing D. Kills penalties, not terrible getting out of his zone, hits like a truck. Very serviceable.

 

[Karl Eriksson]

Pretty much this.

He's a solid 2nd/3rd pairing D. Kills penalties, not terrible getting out of his zone, hits like a truck. Very serviceable.

He's chronically hurt (hasn't played a full season....ever? in 5 years?), and has a brutal cap hit for what he brings to the table ($4.1M).

He reminds me a lot of later years Anton Volchenkov.