Proposal: Wpg-mtl-phi

[Starat327]

yes i don't watch him but, it's not about producing offense, it's about being able to move the puck it's the most important thing in the nhl for a d-man. Hjalmarsson and Tanev are good puck movers, Morin isn't. Good puck movers can produce at lower caliber leagues even if they don't in the nhl.

look i don't care how you view morin, he's not on my team and will never be. In my opinion you'll be lucky to get a 3rd pairing guy out of him. If you thinks he's going to be a top 4 that's fine but don't sell him as equal (or close to equal) to a guy who's projected to be a no1 d-man.

For someone who admittedly stat watches, I'd expect you to get at least that part right.

If you really think we'd be "lucky" to get an nhl defenseman from Morin, then I've heard all I need to, and there's no reasonable conversation to be had here.

 

[Quiksilver*]

Why in the world would Winnipeg do this deal when they give up the two best pieces? And I'm no Winnipeg fan.

This deal has them downgrade at each position.
Trouba > Ghost - easily
Wheeler > Patches - a bit closer, but still pretty clear

 

[Hunter368]

Why in the world would Winnipeg do this deal when they give up the two best pieces? And I'm no Winnipeg fan.

This deal has them downgrade at each position.
Trouba > Ghost - easily
Wheeler > Patches - a bit closer, but still pretty clear

You're correct, the Jets wouldn't do it. Pass

 

[TT1]

I just want to know how you make a 3-way trade with 6 premium assets and your hangup is maybe a non-Habs team wants Desharnais added.

Sam Morin is not a premium asset.

 

[Jets]

Wheeler > Pacioretty > Trouba > Ghost > Sergachev > Morin

 

[Drydenwasthebest]

I fail to see how Serg>>>>Morin. Both were high 1st round picks and neither has played a game in the NHL. that's a hilarious statement, almost as funny as Trouba>>>Ghost. Ghost is clearly the better player now and even more potential to increase it

I am not going to weigh in on which player is better between Sergachev and Morin, but I just want to point out that Sergachev has played in 3 regular season NHL games. I am not saying that makes him better or worse, but I want people to stop saying Sergachev has never played in the NHL.

I think Morin is a terrific prospect I would love to have in Montreal.

I also think Sergachev is a great prospect I am pleased to have in Montreal.


I would not trade Pacioretty for Wheeler. Our best goal scoring threat can not be traded when we are hoping to compete for a CUP...especially when we would then have nothing of true value on the LW and an overloaded RW.

I really believe Ghost is better than Trouba. Trouble is better defensively, but not significantly enough to overcome the difference in offence. Of course, that is simply a personal preference. Ghost is much better at moving the puck than Trouba and is still young and developing. Neither player is in his prime, yet, but I simply like Ghost's potential more.

Overall, none of the teams do this deal since it is mostly lateral movements without considering actual team needs. Montreal needs a LW and a PMD defender able to play top 4 defence far more than another RW and a stay-at-home defender. Winnipeg needs Trouba's defensive ability more than Ghost's offensive ability. Philly also needs what Morin brings more than what Trouba would. Overall, the OP makes for an interesting discussion, but is not a realistic trade.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Sam Morin is not a premium asset.

Sigh. You can be a premium asset and still be the least valuable piece in the original deal by a good margin...especially when the point was in comparison to Desharnais.

 

[Juicy Pop]

yes i don't watch him but, it's not about producing offense, it's about being able to move the puck it's the most important thing in the nhl for a d-man. Hjalmarsson and Tanev are good puck movers, Morin isn't. Good puck movers can produce at lower caliber leagues even if they don't in the nhl.

look i don't care how you view morin, he's not on my team and will never be. In my opinion you'll be lucky to get a 3rd pairing guy out of him. If you thinks he's going to be a top 4 that's fine but don't sell him as equal (or close to equal) to a guy who's projected to be a no1 d-man.

It's funny that you mention these two, as a stat watcher, given that both Tanev and Hjalmarsson weren't renowned for their production in lower levels either [Morin actually did finish 4th in PPG for defenseman in his draft+2 when he finally received significant PP time]. The only way that you could make such a statement would be by watching his play in the AHL, which should rather quickly reverse that opinion given his strong first pass.

 

[Tripod]

I have no issue with people saying Serg is better than Morin, or will be at the NHL level. But I do feel a bunch of people only watch points to determine value. But let's see what Morin HAS done.

2012 QMJHL All Rookie Team
2013 drafted 11th overall, had 16 points.....won Gold at WJC U18
2014 was 23rd in PPG for QMJHL DMen
2015 was 4th in PPG for QMJHL DMen...won Gold at WJC U20....won Memorial Cup
2016 started in the AHL and by seasons end was on the top pairing as a rookie.
This season, is in the top D pairing again with LV being the 4th best team in the league right now.

Morin was always going to take longer to reach the NHL than others in his draft class. He was a raw prospect. And even so, guys like Nurse and Morrisey are just getting there now. He could be in the NHL now over some of the trash we ice, but Hextall wants him to gain more experience against top lines.

He will be an important part of the Flyers future, not because of points, but because of his defense, size, toughness and PK abilities. That's why he is not getting PP time....he won't get it in Philly with Ghost, Provy and Sanheim getting the bulk of it.

Morin is right on track to be the perfect compliment to other skill guys on D who push the offense. And that can be quite valuable. Didn't we just see a defensive Dman get traded for Hall this summer? Morin could be making his NHL debut later this year. Let's see how he looks. I will take bets it's much better than Tinordi.

 

[Bob Clarke Fan Club]

Sam Morin is not a premium asset.

Are you drinking that St. Lawrence sewage water or something? Of course he is, you just don't know it yet.

 

[Trapper]

Wheeler > Pacioretty > Trouba > Ghost > Sergachev > Morin

These > assessments are all subjective.
You can't run down a list of forwards,D and prospects simply listing > or <.
You are also a fan of a specific team. I'm sure others might disagree.

First of all, Patches/Wheeler are forwards.
Trouba/Ghost are D. We know the market for D is different in trades so > < may not apply. (see Edmonton). Then we have 2 prospects. No idea how they turn out.

So in terms of Patches and Wheeler, they play different games. You want more goal scoring, thats Patches. You want a little less goal scoring but someone who probably uses their size more effectively, Wheeler.

Trouba has physicality over Ghost but Ghost is much more dynamic offensively.

As for the prospects, they are built and play differently. Both could be mainstays of a teams blueline in different capacities.

Trading for an individual is determined by how your team is already made up, what it is lacking and chemistry.

 

[Curufinwe]

Vlasic is a great defenseman because he's very good in his zone while producing offense

players that don't produce at CHL AHL levels rarely become anything more than 3rd pairing/depth fowards, even if they're very good defensively

if it was one bad year offensively for morin ok but he has never produce offense at the level you expect from a good prospect. he looks a lot like Tinordi to me

provorov and sergachev are very similar
sanheim isn't as good (still very good tho). you have to compare production at the same age and sergachev is a lot further in his developpement than sanheim was at 18

Morin scored twice as much as Tinordi did in their two post draft seasons in Junior.

Sergachev is more like Provorov than Morin, but Morin is not Tinordi.

 

[Peter Tagli Eddie]

These > assessments are all subjective.
You can't run down a list of forwards,D and prospects simply listing > or <.
You are also a fan of a specific team. I'm sure others might disagree.

First of all, Patches/Wheeler are forwards.
Trouba/Ghost are D. We know the market for D is different in trades so > < may not apply. (see Edmonton). Then we have 2 prospects. No idea how they turn out.

So in terms of Patches and Wheeler, they play different games. You want more goal scoring, thats Patches. You want a little less goal scoring but someone who probably uses their size more effectively, Wheeler.

Trouba has physicality over Ghost but Ghost is much more dynamic offensively.

As for the prospects, they are built and play differently. Both could be mainstays of a teams blueline in different capacities.

Trading for an individual is determined by how your team is already made up, what it is lacking and chemistry.

2013-2016 (3 seasons) 5 vs 5

Wheeler GP 243 G 158
Patches GP 235 G 147

 

[Trapper]

2013-2016 (3 seasons) 5 vs 5

Wheeler GP 243 G 158
Patches GP 235 G 147

Last 3 years:

Patches: 30,37,39
Wheeler: 26,26,28

5 on 5 is great. PP count as well otherwise why have them.

 

[Tripod]

Since Morin was just talked about, here is a write up on his progress....Sanheim as well.

http://highlandparkhockey.blogspot.ca/2016/11/morin-sanheim-glimpse-of-future-for.html

With the Phantoms, for the moment though, Morin and Sanheim are drawing the tough assignments. On most nights, they’re going up against the opposition’s top lines. They also see key penalty-killing minutes and are often used late in games to preserve leads.

Morin has experience in that regard. The big, bruising defenseman is in his second year in Allentown and understands the importance of grooming himself into a shutdown blueliner.

“I think last year I did a pretty good job,†he said of his role with Lehigh Valley. “I played against those top lines. That’s what I expect myself to do [this year]. That’s what I’m hoping for.€

 

[Westcoasthabsfan]

Philly wins this deal hands down...both wpg and Mtl say no thanks

 

[BrindamoursNose]

Philly wins this deal hands down...both wpg and Mtl say no thanks

Why are the Flyers even in this deal? It's a lateral move for us.

We're trading a top, young offensive D-Man & blue chip shutdown D prospect for a highly rated two-way, young D-Man & blue chip offensive D-Man

 

[Starat327]

Philly wins this deal hands down...both wpg and Mtl say no thanks

How does Philadelphia win a deal that they would never make?