Wow the playoffs are intense. Can we compete

[Gary Nylund]

I never said that. Why are you lying now?

An opinion is not a fact.

Put on your big boy pants, admit you were wrong, and stop attacking other posters that were right all along.

Sure you did. You said as soon as Vegas played a good team (WSH), they lost so us playing so well in defeat against Boston was more impressive. Then I pointed out that Vegas beat the 2nd overall team 4-1 on the way to the final and you dismissed that fact saying that it matter as that team wasn't "elite". And the Leafs being favoured is not opinion, it's a fact.

You seem more off then usual tonight. Nothing wrong with that if you are, I'm just curious.

MOD Edited.

 

[saltming]

I duly apologize for the horrendous unforgivable insult "homer" I sarcastically lobbed at you at the same time I was being attacked by other posters with that very same word.

Now back on topic - as you guys are attacking me for being a homer, you were horrendously wrong about arguably the two most significant individual weaknesses of the team in recent years. Where do you get off attacking other posters for bias or blind spots?

Well I don't recall using the word homer and I certainly don't think you are.
I guess your feeling defensive because you are being "attacked" so that's fair.
I pointed out you were always down on Andersen even when he was recieving vesina votes and that Babcock instilled some structure in the young guns that was needed.
Both in question have passed their due date, as is a natural progression. You used this to say that you were right about them back then. I called that line of thinking illogical and it is.
Your retort was to state a falsehood saying Andersen was never a vezina candidate, which he was, so that leads me to believe you might not even believe in your stance.
Either way,from the posts you are leaving I would have to say they are making it seem like you are a "homer" of yourself

 

[3blizzard4]

Hey guys the playoffs are intense eh?

 

[Gary Nylund]

You said that our playoff performance was more impressive than Vegas when we lost in the first round and Vegas went to the final - that's not a fact, that's a joke.

I never said that. Why are you lying now?

To refresh you memory, look at Post #504 in the "Wow the playoffs are intense. Can we compete" thread.

You quoted me saying:
Your claim that Vegas never beat anyone good and as soon as they played a good team (WSH), they lost ... Before facing WSH, they beat (among other teams) the team that was second in goals scored, 5th in goals against and 2nd overall (ahead of cough cough WSH).

And you responded with:
You're right - 3yrs ago they did manage to beat one good team, but even that team wasn't a real elite team

Have a nice night buddy.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Hey guys the playoffs are intense eh?

I've watched every game so far ... not bad.

I'm looking forward to our boys playing with this kind of intensity. And I'm looking forward to seeing Simmonds doing his thing in the blue and white, it's been a long time since we've had a player with that kind of toughness who's not a plug.

GLG!!

 

[zeke]

Sure you did. You said as soon as Vegas played a good team (WSH), they lost so us playing so well in defeat against Boston was more impressive. Then I pointed out that Vegas beat the 2nd overall team 4-1 on the way to the final and you dismissed that fact saying that it matter as that team wasn't "elite". And the Leafs being favoured is not opinion, it's a fact.

You seem more off then usual tonight, are you drunk? Nothing wrong with that if you are, I'm just curious.

Yeah you may want to re-read the post you crazily attacked me for, Gary.

 

[zeke]

Well I don't recall using the word homer and I certainly don't think you are.
I guess your feeling defensive because you are being "attacked" so that's fair.
I pointed out you were always down on Andersen even when he was recieving vesina votes and that Babcock instilled some structure in the young guns that was needed.
Both in question have passed their due date, as is a natural progression. You used this to say that you were right about them back then. I called that line of thinking illogical and it is.
Your retort was to state a falsehood saying Andersen was never a vezina candidate, which he was, so that leads me to believe you might not even believe in your stance.
Either way,from the posts you are leaving I would have to say they are making it seem like you are a "homer" of yourself

Andersen received a handful of vezina votes in one year, far behind even the #3 contender and there were goalies with fewer votes that had clearly superior performances. Calling him a vezina caliber goalie was always, always wrong. He was never close. And the really sad part is that it took until he was literally unplayably bad that you guys finally even admitted he was anything but elite.

Babcock installed no structure - the leafs were horrendous defensively in every single one of his seasons, and became good defensively the instant he was canned. Add his bizarre personnel decisions and his questionable motivation tactics and there is no arguing that he was anything but a very bad coach for the Maple Leafs.

The fact that you guys can't seem to admit these blatantly obvious things you were wrong about just doesn't look very good on you tbh.

 

[peconcan]

I think we’ll be fine... When was the last time we had this many guys who are capable of stepping up being physical and standing up for their team mates?

 

[zeke]

To refresh you memory, look at Post #504 in the "Wow the playoffs are intense. Can we compete" thread.

You quoted me saying:
Your claim that Vegas never beat anyone good and as soon as they played a good team (WSH), they lost ... Before facing WSH, they beat (among other teams) the team that was second in goals scored, 5th in goals against and 2nd overall (ahead of cough cough WSH).

And you responded with:
You're right - 3yrs ago they did manage to beat one good team, but even that team wasn't a real elite team

Have a nice night buddy.

Before you go to sleep, please feel free to point out anywhere in there where I said the leafs' playoffs performance was more impressive than theirs - you know, the thing you just dishonestly accused me of.

 

[BigBlu]

Would love to have Kadri back, I'll tell you that much. I never blamed him for that crap he took. He's under a microscope already playing for TO, and the narrative got spun out of control. Management should have shown real strength and stayed the course rather than succumb to scapegoating and damage control.

 

[saltming]

Andersen received a handful of vezina votes in one year, far behind even the #3 contender and there were goalies with fewer votes that had clearly superior performances. Calling him a vezina caliber goalie was always, always wrong. He was never close. And the really sad part is that it took until he was literally unplayably bad that you guys finally even admitted he was anything but elite.

Babcock installed no structure - the leafs were horrendous defensively in every single one of his seasons, and became good defensively the instant he was canned. Add his bizarre personnel decisions and his questionable motivation tactics and there is no arguing that he was anything but a very bad coach for the Maple Leafs.

The fact that you guys can't seem to admit these blatantly obvious things you were wrong about just doesn't look very good on you tbh.

I think by definition if you are receiving votes for the vezina, you are in that calibre of your peers. Subjectively you could argue that he wasn't worth of those votes, but that would involve bias as his numbers were great facing the amount of shots he was facing in those years.
I apologize as I didn't make clear that structure is not system, so the team defense can be bad as the system is questionable, but the structure teaching a nylander to back check or a Matthew's where he should be without the puck or a marner to stop trying to pass through 3 defenders at the blue line on a rush is what I consider structure.
So, for me team defense doesn't factor into my argument

 

[TMLeafer]

I wonder that the Leafs are likely not going to be allowed to set the tone physically. If the opponent comes out the gates overly physical and the Leafs respond, that'll be that. But if the Leafs start running at them first, you'll see penalties because some BS like 'it's not this team's identity'. Won't allow them to be the aggressor.

 

[BigBlu]

Agreed on Babcock.

He tried to be Hoosiers coach Norman Dale and insist on "playing the right way" with "5 passes!" before any shot. He ground them down and clipped their wings. Meanwhile he had high flyers who needed to be turned loose to show their other-level talent. You don't tell Bryson DeChambeau to lay up on a Par 5 because it's "the system" that worked for us in Detroit with Mike Sillinger/Kris Draper/Kirk Maltby/and Dallas Drake.

 

[Stephen]

Agreed on Babcock.

He tried to be Hoosiers coach Norman Dale and insist on "playing the right way" with "5 passes!" before any shot. He ground them down and clipped their wings. Meanwhile he had high flyers who needed to be turned loose to show their other-level talent. You don't tell Bryson DeChambeau to lay up on a Par 5 because it's "the system" that worked for us in Detroit with Mike Sillinger/Kris Draper/Kirk Maltby/and Dallas Drake.

I remember those early Datsyuk vs Crosby debates and people would always talk about how Babcock basically held Datsyuk back and made him play the two way game as opposed to having free reign to generate offense like Sid. Same thing with Zetterberg. Or similar to the Trotz on Barzal experience. I could definitely see how Babcock was trying to put Matthews, Marner and Nylander in that mold. Definitely not the fan friendly and glamorous numbers approach, I personally wouldn’t have wanted that for the kids but who knows ultimately could have gotten Toronto to where they’re trying to get to.

 

[zeke]

I think by definition if you are receiving votes for the vezina, you are in that calibre of your peers. Subjectively you could argue that he wasn't worth of those votes, but that would involve bias as his numbers were great facing the amount of shots he was facing in those years.
I apologize as I didn't make clear that structure is not system, so the team defense can be bad as the system is questionable, but the structure teaching a nylander to back check or a Matthew's where he should be without the puck or a marner to stop trying to pass through 3 defenders at the blue line on a rush is what I consider structure.
So, for me team defense doesn't factor into my argument

Receiving a handful of votes in one single season, and far closer to receiving no votes than to as many votes as the finalists, is hardly vezina contention. Rielly has a better case to be called a Norris contender by that argument.

And babcock's structure was horrific, held the team and the players back, and it was no surprise to see them instantly look structured as soon as he was canned.

 

[meefer]

If by asking 'can we compete' = 'can we deal with physical hockey' my response is,

Hyman, Matthews, Foligno, Tavares, Kerfoot, Nash, Mikheyev, Thornton, Spezza, Simmonds and Galchenyuk all offer enough sandpaper to deal with a physically demanding series.
Marner, Nylander, Robertson and perhaps Brooks, less so.
Defensively,
Muzzin, Holl, Dermott, Bogosian, Hutton - with Rielly being strong enough, but stylistically not inclined - are all capable of dealing with physical hockey.
Sandin and Liljegren appear not to be overly physical, but don't back down.
Physical hockey is not Brodie's forte, but he's not a player who plays afraid.

We may not be a team that relied on physicality, indeed I would enjoy seeing the boys ramp up the number of hits they throw, but this is not a soft team.

 

[Leafsfan74]

Would love to have Kadri back, I'll tell you that much. I never blamed him for that crap he took. He's under a microscope already playing for TO, and the narrative got spun out of control. Management should have shown real strength and stayed the course rather than succumb to scapegoating and damage control.

His teammates made that decision. I really liked Kadris game and I would have traded him for less than what Dubas received.

If Leafs win that game seven he is probably still here. After the loss, he was never going to be embraced again. Not by his teammates, coach or ownership.

In the end, Kerfoot could be part of a team that does something Kadri never achieved while here: find playoff success.

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

I hate this self defeatists attitude. The Canada division was happy to pretend it was awful just to make the Leafs look bad it felt like.

If the Jets or Oilers are first I doubt get the same arguments. We can absolutely compete, just let’s focus on winning the North first.

 

[Superstar]

I hate this self defeatists attitude. The Canada division was happy to pretend it was awful just to make the Leafs look bad it felt like.

If the Jets or Oilers are first I doubt get the same arguments. We can absolutely compete, just let’s focus on winning the North first.

Don't forget, the Jets have a better top 6 forward group than the Leafs! Remember that?

 

[Marshy]

Win 2 rounds and then settle the debate of what team came from a weak division.

Settle it on the ice. So tired of hearing all this nonsense. Beat who they put in front of you which the Leafs did. It will make it all the more satisfying when some of these trolls expect an easy time from a weak Leafs team from the inferior North Division.

 

[Stephen]

They didn't.

Babcock in fact held us back.

Andersen was barely an upgrade over reimer/Bernier.

The Leafs outgrew Babcock during the course of their evolution towards being a contender and Andersen got worn out and declined with age. These are normal changes over time most teams climbing the standings will experience but it doesn’t make your initial position any more accurate.

 

[Stephen]

Win 2 rounds and then settle the debate of what team came from a weak division.

Settle it on the ice. So tired of hearing all this nonsense. Beat who they put in front of you which the Leafs did. It will make it all the more satisfying when some of these trolls expect an easy time from a weak Leafs team from the inferior North Division.

There’s also no shame in beating up on a weak division should that path to the conference finals end up being easier than usual. It’s not Toronto’s fault that the club teams are run the way they are. Just show up, beat up on who you need to, do the job and hopefully win a cup.

 

[therealkoho]

If by asking 'can we compete' = 'can we deal with physical hockey' my response is,

Hyman, Matthews, Foligno, Tavares, Kerfoot, Nash, Mikheyev, Thornton, Spezza, Simmonds and Galchenyuk all offer enough sandpaper to deal with a physically demanding series.
Marner, Nylander, Robertson and perhaps Brooks, less so.
Defensively,
Muzzin, Holl, Dermott, Bogosian, Hutton - with Rielly being strong enough, but stylistically not inclined - are all capable of dealing with physical hockey.
Sandin and Liljegren appear not to be overly physical, but don't back down.
Physical hockey is not Brodie's forte, but he's not a player who plays afraid.

We may not be a team that relied on physicality, indeed I would enjoy seeing the boys ramp up the number of hits they throw, but this is not a soft team.

sounds good, have you watched the Caps/B's series so far?

 

[therealkoho]

I read this one in Trump's voice too.

it's what many people are saying

 

[djdev]

every series is a different animal, i see this series as kind of a colorado vs st louis type series after watching that game tonight.