Wow the playoffs are intense. Can we compete

[IPS]

You were saying Andersen was mediocre when he was putting up solid vezna performances every year.
Babcock was the right coach at that time. That time ended we have moved on. Your takes were wrong then. Time passes and things change, that's normal, to say you were right then because it is that way now is flawed logic.
Using recent situations to validate past assumptions is silly.

Oh god lmao

Don't even get me started on the blind defense of Babcock around here. Those opinions aged horribly, yours included.

 

[zeke]

LOL what a pathetic liar you are.

Wut?

You've been saying it non stop.

Why the bragging?

Says the biggest homer in Leaf Nation.

Says the biggest Babcock and andersen homer on the boards.

 

[Stephen]

For example, I was hated on here for pointing out that Frederik Andersen was a mediocre goalie (and is now a bad one), and that Babcock was an awful coach - with pretty much the entire board against me for being so critical of these flaws in the leafs.

Babcock and Andersen were actually quite good for a number of years here in Toronto, as evidenced by a 31st place team rocketing into playoff status and never missing them again. If we weren't strong from a coaching point of view or in net, that initial jump to respectability couldn't have happened with just more scoring from the kids. Look at the rebuilding teams in our cohort and see how many of them couldn't make that transition back to the playoffs, or any rebuild project since then.

The fact that they couldn't get over the hump because Andersen wasn't a big game goalie (and later deteriorated) or that Babcock didn't adapt his game plan and wasn't a popular person doesn't really square with the fact they did some good things throughout their time. Sort of like how you wouldn't have been right if you said Rielly was trash two years ago, but now that his play has declined, it's more true now.

 

[IPS]

You'd think these rebuilding teams would have been chomping at the bit to get Babcock since he's been fired but apparently not.

 

[zeke]

Babcock and Andersen were actually quite good for a number of years here in Toronto, as evidenced by a 31st place team rocketing into playoff status and never missing them again. If we weren't strong from a coaching point of view or in net, that initial jump to respectability couldn't have happened with just more scoring from the kids. Look at the rebuilding teams in our cohort and see how many of them couldn't make that transition back to the playoffs, or any rebuild project since then.

The fact that they couldn't get over the hump because Andersen wasn't a big game goalie (and later deteriorated) or that Babcock didn't adapt his game plan and wasn't a popular person doesn't really square with the fact they did some good things throughout their time.

Babcock was and is a bad coach.

Andersen was a mediocre goalie and is now a bad one.

The turnaround was thanks to matthews/marner/Nylander, not Babcock and Andersen.


It's really bad form for so many posters to be unable to admit how epically wrong they were, even while they attack other posters for being biased despite the fact that they were right.

 

[saltming]

Andersen was never remotely close to vezina caliber.

And the voters agreed.

Voters agreed that he was, that's why he got votes for the vezina.
That's just fact.

 

[saltming]

My takes on Andersen and Babcock were perfect then and perfect now, and you homers with no objectivity just couldn't see it.

So you reduce yourself to name calling now?
That's a weak strategy.

 

[Cleetus]

So you reduce yourself to name calling now?
That's a weak strategy.

absolutely horrible stuff.... cant win an argument has to go to name calling sad stuff....

 

[saltming]

Oh god lmao

Don't even get me started on the blind defense of Babcock around here. Those opinions aged horribly, yours included.

Well there you go then

 

[Stephen]

Babcock was and is a bad coach.

Andersen was a mediocre goalie and is now a bad one.

The turnaround was thanks to matthews/marner/Nylander, not Babcock and Andersen.


It's really bad form for so many posters to be unable to admit how epically wrong they were, even while they attack other posters for being biased despite the fact that they were right.

The turnaround was clearly powered by the highly drafted forward talent and rookie cohort including Brown, Hyman and Zaitsev, but it's also implausible to suggest an NHL team promoted 6 rookies and let them run wild and they could succeed without quality coaching or goaltending or other veteran support. Babcock and Andersen couldn't get us to the next level because of various issues which we've documented ad nauseum, but they clearly played a role that got us to this level.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Wut?

You've been saying it non stop.

Why the bragging?

The entire world knows that the Leafs are favoured to win the North. Stating facts is not bragging.

Says the biggest Babcock and andersen homer on the boards.

I was begging for Babcock to be fired for a long time before happened and I've said many times that I'd rather have Rittich as our backup instead of Andersen. This is pretty recent stuff dude, if you're having trouble here then you might want to consult a doctor.

 

[zeke]

So you reduce yourself to name calling now?
That's a weak strategy.

Nice try.

 

[zeke]

The turnaround was clearly powered by the highly drafted forward talent and rookie cohort including Brown, Hyman and Zaitsev, but it's also implausible to suggest an NHL team promoted 6 rookies and let them run wild and they could succeed without quality coaching or goaltending or other veteran support. Babcock and Andersen couldn't get us to the next level because of various issues which we've documented ad nauseum, but they clearly played a role that got us to this level.

They didn't.

Babcock in fact held us back.

Andersen was barely an upgrade over reimer/Bernier.

 

[zeke]

The entire world knows that the Leafs are favoured to win the North. Stating facts is not bragging.

Definitely sounds more like bragging than any of the clear facts I mentioned.

I was begging for Babcock to be fired for a long time before happened and I've said many times that I'd rather have Rittich as our backup instead of Andersen. This is pretty recent stuff dude, if you're having trouble here then you might want to consult a doctor.

Very, very recent stuff for you after attacking us for years for saying the same.

 

[Gary Nylund]

What's impressive about them is their forward group does a good job of fighting to make high skill plays and they have two higher end pieces to lead them on defense and in goal. Hoping that series goes the distance and whatever team is left standing is worse for wear, though if Florida gains momentum they'll be a tough team as well, which will likely be Carolina's problem. What this all means is even if the Leafs advance out of Canada they will need to be at a higher gear than we've ever seen them.

Yeah if we get out of the North, the going will get a lot tougher from that point on for sure. A lot of good teams out there, most of them play in other divisions.

Oh god lmao

Don't even get me started on the blind defense of Babcock around here. Those opinions aged horribly, yours included.

Babcock did a great job at the beginning. But then his act got old, just like DET fans told us it would. Happened a lot sooner then I thought it would but whatever, I'm just happy he's gone.

Evaluations of coaches change over time, just as it does for players. In that sense, maybe it's fair to say that all opinions "age horribly" in a sense, it's just a question of time.

 

[al secord]

My takes on Andersen and Babcock were perfect then and perfect now, and you homers with no objectivity just couldn't see it.

I read this in Trump's voice.

 

[zeke]

I read this in Trump's voice.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Definitely sounds more like bragging than any of the clear facts I mentioned.

You said that our playoff performance was more impressive than Vegas when we lost in the first round and Vegas went to the final - that's not a fact, that's a joke.

Leafs are favoured to take the North, that's a fact.

You might want to take a look at this:
Definition of FACT

Very, very recent stuff for you after attacking us for years for saying the same.

Andersen was good for a long time, then he wasn't. When you were attacking him when he was playing well, now that was dumb.

 

[zeke]

You said that our playoff performance was more impressive than Vegas when we lost in the first round and Vegas went to the final - that's not a fact, that's a joke.

I never said that. Why are you lying now?

Leafs are favoured to take the North, that's a fact.

You might want to take a look at this:
Definition of FACT

An opinion is not a fact.

Andersen was good for a long time, then he wasn't. When you were attacking him when he was playing well, now that was dumb.

Put on your big boy pants, admit you were wrong, and stop attacking other posters that were right all along.

 

[saltming]

Nice try.

No really it wasn't. I have seen you do better

 

[Marshy]

With no Leafs games to watch I'm enjoying a little fan on fan fisticuffs.

 

[zeke]

For the record, the shift in this topic from discussing facts about the team to attacking a poster's posting history was most definitely not started by l'il Ole zeke.

 

[ErnieLeafs]

This is a productive thread, now, isn’t it...

 

[Nylander88]

The start to these playoffs is incredible! Can't remember another year in recent history that started with this much of a bang. These games are so intense and fun to watch! The pace and physicality in every game has been an absolute treat

 

[saltming]

I duly apologize for the horrendous unforgivable insult "homer" I sarcastically lobbed at you at the same time I was being attacked by other posters with that very same word.

Now back on topic - as you guys are attacking me for being a homer, you were horrendously wrong about arguably the two most significant individual weaknesses of the team in recent years. Where do you get off attacking other posters for bias or blind spots?