Would you trade Kessel for Patrice Bergeron straight up?

[charliolemieux]

Are the 20ish more points kessal will get worth the huge drop off in defensive talent? Not even close.

Kessel is a gamebreaker.

If last year is any indication the better his linemates are the more he expands his playmaking ability. His shot will always make goalies respect him coming down the wing, so if you give him better linemates they shoud have more open nets.
Kessel can pass. He is far from the one dimensional shooter that we were told we were getting 3 years ago.

Stamkos with Kessel would be uber sick.

 

[charliolemieux]

Exactly. And playing center. And being a leader.

Are you kidding?

BErgeron would be ripped to pieces because he isn't scoring 80 pts like a #1 center should.
His leadership means nothing unless he becomes the second coming of Gilmour. Which he isn't.
There are quite a few 50-60pt centers in the league. Not so many 24yr old 81pt scorers.

In a vacuum, I want my forward to be the person who scores the most goals/points. Would never such a deal unless we had another sniper on the team.

Even then, Boston would have to add another significant piece.

I would want at least a 1st rnd pick, or maybe Hamilton. Bergeron and Hamilton for Kessel.

I might even throw a 3rd back the other way.

What do you think?

 

[Disgruntled Observer*]

lol I'm one of Kessels biggest critics and even I wouldn't do that deal.

Kessel for a Top6 Power Forward + Blue Chip Goalie prospect or go home.

Ditto.

I like the idea of Kessel for a number 1 Center... it's just that Bergeron isn't really even a number 1 C, and is like 3 years older with a lot more wear and tear.

I'm still a big fan of Bergeron's game though...

 

[RogerRoeper*]

Are the 20ish more points kessal will get worth the huge drop off in defensive talent? Not even close.

Yes. Easily.

 

[RogerRoeper*]

Leafs fan voting yes.

Star two way centermen are more important than scoring wingers.

Watch the 2010 olympics for proof.

Kessel was riding pine while Bergeron got the defensive assignments.

Bergeron is not a star. Kessel is.

 

[Bomber0104]

Bergeron is not a star. Kessel is.

That's an opinion...and very subjective too..

Bergeron is a winner. Plays the game the correct way.

 

[DaveT83*]

Bergeron is not a star. Kessel is.

LOL this sums up my feelings regarding the majority of Leaf fans ability to judge talent on this team/forum.

If he's got star power - he's good!

Its akin to watching a movie just because X-Actor is in it.

Phil Kessel = Sarah Jessica Parker
Toronto Maple Leafs = "How does she do it"

Were missing the direction/script/story/cinematography and all the other aspects that go into making a good film - but we have the name recognition of a "Star" actor- so were good.

 

[DaveT83*]

Ditto.

I like the idea of Kessel for a number 1 Center... it's just that Bergeron isn't really even a number 1 C, and is like 3 years older with a lot more wear and tear.

I'm still a big fan of Bergeron's game though...

Yeah Bergeron is a gamer. Hard to think of many more forwards I'd rather have on the ice in final stages of game when protecting a lead. He'd assuredly be our #1C - by a country mile.

I'm a firm believer that you draft a 1C.

 

[smack66]

Bergeron is not a star. Kessel is.

Although I very much disagree with this quote. I'm a Bruins fan and don't think the Leafs would benefit from trading Kessel for Bergy

 

[Kegs]

How is Bergeron suddenly going to score more on the Leafs when he'll have worse wingers to pass to and be burdened with linemates he'll have to work that much harder to cover defensively?

The leafs have an offensive minded coach where as bruins have a defence first mentality. It's why kessel was benched during playoffs even though his stats would state he played well. Kessel is playing with lupul too. Who if you haven't noticed is also a beast. I'm not trying to take any thing from kessel I just wouldn't prefere kessel to Bergeron. Most of these fans are only using stats to argue their point. If hockey was about stats kessel wOuldnt have been traded away. He was the leading scorer on the team at the time and on paper looks steller. I think kessel is a premium goal scorer who will score no matter who u put on his Line. But he won't carry you team on his back. Bergeron is the best forward on the bruins. I also saw ppl calling him a second line centre. I dont understand this statement. He always get put on the ice when the other teams top talent is on the ice. He centred the two highest goal scoters on the bruins. And he leads all bruins forwards in ice time. u realize he was matched up against kessel in all their meetings right? How well did kessel do? Would leaf fans trade kessel and a first for datsuk ? On paper kessel is better. But we all know every team in the league would make that trade. Players that make your team better are more important than a elite gOal scorer.

 

[The Apologist]

LOL this sums up my feelings regarding the majority of Leaf fans ability to judge talent on this team/forum.

If he's got star power - he's good!

Its akin to watching a movie just because X-Actor is in it.

Phil Kessel = Sarah Jessica Parker
Toronto Maple Leafs = "How does she do it"

Were missing the direction/script/story/cinematography and all the other aspects that go into making a good film - but we have the name recognition of a "Star" actor- so were good.

Or maybe you should read the post he was responding to. I can explain it to you if you like.

Trade makes no sense for us. We'd spend
The next decade trying to find a Phil Kessel to play with our top center.

 

[Future]

Rofl. People on these boards.


Offensive talent is actually so underrated on here.

 

[redbull]

Bergeron is a winner. Plays the game the correct way.

no doubt about it. Bergeron is a near flawless player, he does everything well, all zones, with and without the puck, great on faceoffs, etc. He's a player you win with.

BUT, we're being a little unfair to Kessel here. Just because he's not well-rounded as a player, doesn't mean he isn't more valuable. Scoring goals in the NHL isn't easy. Kessel's scoring ability is rare.

Mike Fisher's a well-rounded player as well, but how many would pick him over a one dimensional player like, Kovalchuk? Stamkos? Kessel? (I know, varying degrees of one-dimensional but you get the point)

Only SEVEN players have more goals than Kessel over the past four seasons. Bergeron is right with David Clarkson and Dupuis and Vermette and Mikko Koivu (around 130th-ish, overall)

I think many here are underestimated the gap between the two players offensively.

Maybe he's not a winner (yet) but he's still very young and has been on a pretty bad team of late. Yzerman was once seen as a bad leader and questioned about whether he was a winner. So have a lot of great players. The Islanders (with Trottier, Potvin and more HHOF players) were questioned about their leaderhip before they won cups. So was 99 after the 1983 playoffs. So were many great players like Modano.

Marcel Dionne, Alex Ovechkin, Rick Nash, Jason Spezza - a lot of really good hockey players, from several eras, haven't won anything.

Bergeron is a very good hockey player but Kessel is so much better at what he does that I'd never make that deal if I were the Leafs.

 

[The Apologist]

The leafs have an offensive minded coach where as bruins have a defence first mentality. It's why kessel was benched during playoffs even though his stats would state he played well. Kessel is playing with lupul too. Who if you haven't noticed is also a beast. I'm not trying to take any thing from kessel I just wouldn't prefere kessel to Bergeron. Most of these fans are only using stats to argue their point. If hockey was about stats kessel wOuldnt have been traded away. He was the leading scorer on the team at the time and on paper looks steller. I think kessel is a premium goal scorer who will score no matter who u put on his Line. But he won't carry you team on his back. Bergeron is the best forward on the bruins. I also saw ppl calling him a second line centre. I dont understand this statement. He always get put on the ice when the other teams top talent is on the ice. He centred the two highest goal scoters on the bruins. And he leads all bruins forwards in ice time. u realize he was matched up against kessel in all their meetings right? How well did kessel do? Would leaf fans trade kessel and a first for datsuk ? On paper kessel is better. But we all know every team in the league would make that trade. Players that make your team better are more important than a elite gOal scorer.

Bergeron would not make this better. If you think the Leafs are anything other than a non playoff team with Bergeron at 1c then you know less about this team than I thought.

By the way, regarding the coach, I believe the word you're looking for is HAD.

 

[GodTukka*]

Bergeron would not make this better. If you think the Leafs are anything other than a non playoff team with Bergeron at 1c then you know less about this team than I thought.

By the way, regarding the coach, I believe the word you're looking for is HAD.

Because they're totally a playoff team with Kessel right?

 

[The Podium]

Who needs Bergeron...

http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2012/3/6/2849170/overpaying-mikhail-grabovski

 

[The Apologist]

Because they're totally a playoff team with Kessel right?

Where did I say that? The reading comprehension skills in this thread are incredible.

 

[ACC1224]

I certainly believe 30 GMs would give up the 6th highest scorer for a World Jr gold winner and MVP, World Hockey Championship winner, Olympic gold medal winner, Stanlely cup winner and Selke winner. You keep telling yourself otherwise and as for the one concussion from retirement, all players in the league are one concussion from retirement. Bergerons resume speaks for itself.

Leafs fan voting yes.

Star two way centermen are more important than scoring wingers.

Watch the 2010 olympics for proof.

Kessel was riding pine while Bergeron got the defensive assignments.

No doubt Bergeron has played on some stacked Teams, very good Team player.
One for one, Kessel is far more skilled.

 

[The Apologist]

Who needs Bergeron...

http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2012/3/6/2849170/overpaying-mikhail-grabovski

While I don't think Grabbo is as good as Bergeron, he fills that hole a lot better than anyone we have would fill the one created by trading Kessel.

 

[Christ]

Bergeron is a winner though.

He's won just about everything there is to win in hockey.

Kessel hasn't won anything.

Then when you think of how Bergeron plays the game itself....its even more clear.

It is amazing what playing on a good team can do for you is it not? I mean if you put Bergeron on the Leafs for his career and left Kessel on Boston for his whole career, do you honestly expect Bergeron to have won much? I expect that Kessel would have a cup with Boston while Bergeron would be that underrated talent who never wins anything.

 

[The Apologist]

It is amazing what playing on a good team can do for you is it not? I mean if you put Bergeron on the Leafs for his career and left Kessel on Boston for his whole career, do you honestly expect Bergeron to have won much? I expect that Kessel would have a cup with Boston while Bergeron would be that underrated talent who never wins anything.

Bergeron would be working at Burger King by this point.

 

[Mess]

Boston had both players at one point and they kept Bergeron and traded Kessel. So what Boston would do in this hypothetical trade situation has already been determined by past history of actions. No guess work involved here.

The only reason for a do over is if you believe you made the wrong choice originally.. Since Boston won the Stanley Cup thereafter, and Bergeron 6-14-20 playoffs points (2nd leading playoff scorer) on winning team and the current reigning Selke (best defensive forward) there is really no reason for Boston to doubt their decision here.

Besides the 2011-12 Bruins were the 2nd highest scoring team in the league last year so more goals is not what they lack or need, so there is no need to reacquire Kessel, particularly not at the expense of one of the league elite 2-way players.

 

[ACC1224]

Boston had both players at one point and they kept Bergeron and traded Kessel. So what Boston would do in this hypothetical trade situation has already been determined by past history of actions. No guess work involved here.

The only reason for a do over is if you believe you made the wrong choice originally.. Since Boston won the Stanley Cup thereafter, and Bergeron 6-14-20 playoffs points (2nd leading playoff scorer) on winning team and the current reigning Selke (best defensive forward) there is really no reason for Boston to doubt their decision here.

Besides the 2011-12 Bruins were the 2nd highest scoring team in the league last year so more goals is not what they lack or need, so there is no need to reacquire Kessel, particularly not at the expense of one of the league elite 2-way players.

They chose Bergeron over Kessel???

The premise of the thread is would YOU trade Kessel for Bergeron, not would the Bruins.

 

[Mess]

They chose Bergeron over Kessel???

The premise of the thread is would YOU trade Kessel for Bergeron, not would the Bruins.

Yes, Boston also chose Lucic and Krecji because they re-signed them while trading Kessel.. When Boston fans are chanting "thank you Kessel" from the Arena when he comes back to town, its not an indication they want him back, but thankful he forced himself off the Bruins in the past.

Bergeron's salary @ +$5 mil is similar to Kessel's salary so Boston utilized their $5 mil cap space towards Bergeron instead.

Leaf fans don't have to worry about the answer, because as I pointed out Boston wouldn't do it, so there would be no trade regardless. Judging by the poll results in this thread many Leaf fans wouldn't make/offer this deal anyways for Boston to reject.

 

[ACC1224]

Yes, Boston also chose Lucic and Krecji because they re-signed them while trading Kessel.. When Boston fans are chanting "thank you Kessel" from the Arena when he comes back to town, its not an indication they want him back, but thankful he forced himself off the Bruins in the past.

Bergeron's salary @ +$5 mil is similar to Kessel's salary so Boston utilized their $5 mil cap space towards Bergeron instead.

Leaf fans don't have to worry about the answer, because as I pointed out Boston wouldn't do it, so there would be no trade regardless. Judging by the poll results in this thread many Leaf fans wouldn't make/offer this deal anyways for Boston to reject.

You might want to brush up on your history of the trade.

Yes, Leaf fans don't need to worry. Most realize this is just a fantasy discussion.