Would You Trade Justin Holl For.?

[BlueBaron]

It depends on why I'm trading him. If an upgrade is coming and I need cap space I'd let him go for 3rd type value. Random cold call on how much to have him tomorrow is more like a 2nd and 3rd.

 

[rocketman588]

Haven't we been trying to off load him since the expansion draft (part of the explanation was that him and kerfoot would bring us asserts in trades if I remember correctly)

If we haven't been offered a second by now I don't think it's going to happen ever unless someone is desperate. Same with kerfoot if we're being real

 

[PromisedLand]

Holl is a 30 yr old pending UFA who finds a way to suck in the playoffs.

what should a competent GM do?

 

[Machinae]

worse defenseman than Holl have been traded for 1sts at the deadline in the last few seasons, there is no logical reason to trade him. Make your team worse during your last seasons with this core? The 1st round pick wouldn't even impact the team by the time the core 4 have to be re-signed, who knows what this team will be after those negotiations.

Leaf fans are the only fan base that piss themselves over making room for a 7th defenseman or depth forward on the marlies. It's like attention spans of insects, they forget that injuries make room naturally and depth is important. God forbid a 21 year old plays in the AHL and not get rushed into the league after scoring in preseason like past preseason legends Viktor stalberg and christian hanson. So annoying. Let's make our team worse because we have a maybe that might make a similar impact to the guy already in his spot

 

[Matthews4Calder]

I have no idea why the hard on by management for this guy. Turnover machine. Holl's biggest problem is he's slow moving the puck and it usually gets turned over because of it. Timmins has surprised and should be playing but management is clueless. When we protected him instead of McCann enough said.

 

[rocketman588]

worse defenseman than Holl have been traded for 1sts at the deadline in the last few seasons, there is no logical reason to trade him. Make your team worse during your last seasons with this core? The 1st round pick wouldn't even impact the team by the time the core 4 have to be re-signed, who knows what this team will be after those negotiations.

Leaf fans are the only fan base that piss themselves over making room for a 7th defenseman or depth forward on the marlies. It's like attention spans of insects, they forget that injuries make room naturally and depth is important. God forbid a 21 year old plays in the AHL and not get rushed into the league after scoring in preseason like past preseason legends Viktor stalberg and christian hanson. So annoying. Let's make our team worse because we have a maybe that might make a similar impact to the guy already in his spot

We're not getting a first for our "7th D"

If we were he would have been gone two years ago

 

[ACC1224]

worse defenseman than Holl have been traded for 1sts at the deadline in the last few seasons, there is no logical reason to trade him. Make your team worse during your last seasons with this core? The 1st round pick wouldn't even impact the team by the time the core 4 have to be re-signed, who knows what this team will be after those negotiations.

Leaf fans are the only fan base that piss themselves over making room for a 7th defenseman or depth forward on the marlies. It's like attention spans of insects, they forget that injuries make room naturally and depth is important. God forbid a 21 year old plays in the AHL and not get rushed into the league after scoring in preseason like past preseason legends Viktor stalberg and christian hanson. So annoying. Let's make our team worse because we have a maybe that might make a similar impact to the guy already in his spot

any examples?

 

[Dekes For Days]

any examples?

Chiarot for one.

 

[Machinae]

We're not getting a first for our "7th D"

If we were he would have been gone two years ago

Yeah, we would have traded a Dman deemed worth a 1st away years ago instead of you know.. keeping him.. right.

 

[Lauro]

Interesting poll result as more would trade him for a 2nd than for a 1st rd pick, but alright ... ^^

 

[ACC1224]

Interesting poll result as more would trade him for a 2nd than for a 1st rd pick, but alright ... ^^

I think it's more people realizing he would never return a 1st.

 

[rocketman588]

Yeah, we would have traded a Dman deemed worth a 1st away years ago instead of you know.. keeping him.. right.

What 7th Dman is worth a first lol. He can't both be worth a first and our 7th defender.

We've been openly shopping him (according to our media) for two years if he had that high a value hed already be gone

 

[meefer]

Just gonna leave this here

Upon Further Review: How Justin Holl is contributing to Maple Leafs' success

Justin Holl didn't have the best start to the season, and doesn't do the flashy things that stand out. But, as Justin Bourne writes, he does the little things well that put Toronto in positions to succeed.

www.sportsnet.ca

From the article...

"Go ahead and search out the salary of the player who eats the most minutes on the teams at the top of the NHL standings, and you’ll note that most make a few bucks more than Holl’s $2 million salary."

"So far in 2022-23, 210 D-men have played at least 15 games. Of that group of 210, Holl is 31stin D-zone denial percentage (meaning he shuts down rushes against at a top-tier rate), and better still, he’s 11th in the NHL in denials that are immediately followed by a zone exit (courtesy SportLogiq). That’s not a sexy skill, unless you like winning."

"Holl is seventh in the league among D in “exit success on under-pressure dump-in recoveries,” in a clump of names between Jaccob Slavin and Drew Doughty."

"In the first 18 games of the season – when the boos came – Holl had an expected goals percentage of sub-50 per cent in 12 of them, meaning that the play was in fact going the wrong way more often than not when he was out there.He’s played 20 games since, and has only been sub-50 per cent four times (and in three of those, just barely). If you take it back to the start of December, there’s only been a single game where Holl has been on the ice for more goals against than goals for."...I'd be curious to know which games he's been below 50%, do they coincide with the drop-off in play by Samsonov and Murray?

While Holl is not a great Dman he's not terrible, but he certainly is controversial, at least for a portion of Leaf fans. If you're going to move him, and the costs associated with that move, it had better be for a substantial upgrade, because the financial cost and Cap hit will be substantial.

 

[ACC1224]

What would it take for the Leafs to re-sign him in the off season?
What could he get on the open market?

 

[GQS]

I have no idea why the hard on by management for this guy. Turnover machine. Holl's biggest problem is he's slow moving the puck and it usually gets turned over because of it. Timmins has surprised and should be playing but management is clueless. When we protected him instead of McCann enough said.

I like Holl and have been rooting for him for a long time, but if there's ever a time to trade him its probably now when he's looking decent and you might get a half decent asset for him. Put Timmins in his place and you might see an overall improvement in the Leafs defense and if we really want Holl back then maybe just resign him in the offseason.

As for McCann yeah it sucked to lose him to the Kraken, but I wonder how the Leafs could've afforded to resign him to the same kind of contract that Seattle gave him unless they got rid of a few people to open up some cap space for him?

 

[Stephen]

He’s played much better over the past couple of months so you might be rolling the dice on chemistry etc. if you swap him out and bring in another Holl like guy.

 

[FerrisRox]

Kimmo Timmonen was Chicago’s 9th/10th dman, they had a bunch of injuries and had to play him that year they won the cup.

Tampa used a rotation of 9 defenseman as well which included Cal Foote and Luke Schenn

Pittsburgh also used 10 dmen in the playoffs too in 2016, rotation between Streit, Pouliot, Cole , Dumoulin

This is utter nonsense. Kimmo Timonen was never their 9th or 10th defensemen. That is patently false. They traded a 2nd and a 3rd round pick to acquire him at the deadline, he played 16 games to end the season and played the bulk of their playoff games. At no point in time was he their 9th or 10th blue liner. That is just absolutely false.

You've written some additional fiction about Luke Schenn. In 2020, the Lighting rolled Hedman, McDonagh, Sergachev, Cernak, Bogosian and Shattenkirk as their top six blue liners.

Schenn was pretty clearly the #7 guy. He played 11 games that spring, while the only other defensemen to draw in were 3-games from Braydon Coburn and 5-games from Jan Rutta. This wasn't a "nine person rotation" nor was Luke Schenn the 9th guy on the depth chart. The following year the defence consisted of Hedman, Sergachev, McDonagh, Cernak, Rutta and Savard. Schenn, once again, was the #7 defensemen. Cal Foote, who you claim was part of your "mythical 9-man rotation" didn't play an NHL playoff game until last spring and has never won a Stanley Cup. This is all just nonsense.

The fairytale continues with the "rotation" you are trying to pretend the Penguins had. You claim they rotated "Streit, Dumoulin, Cole and Pouilot." You have clearly established that you're pretty loose and fast with facts, but this is a whole other level.

First of all, Ian Cole and Brian Dumoulin (along with Ron Hainsey and Olli Maatta) suited up for all 25 games that spring, so they clearly weren't part of any "rotation." Pouilot, another part of your fictional rotation didn't play that spring at all, not a single game.

Their actual defence that playoff run was Justin Schultz, Olli Maatta, Ian Cole, Brian Dumoulin, Ron Hainsey with the six slot occupied by Trevor Daley.

Daley and Schultz missed four games each so Mark Streit drew in for 3 games and Chad Ruhwedel (who you never even mentioned) played six. (Streit was a tweener and sometimes slotted in as a forward then would play D on the power play.)

Everything you are saying here simply isn't true.

 

[ACC1224]

Surprised no one has a prediction on what his next contract will look like.

 

[LeafSteel]

I like Holl and have been rooting for him for a long time, but if there's ever a time to trade him its probably now when he's looking decent and you might get a half decent asset for him. Put Timmins in his place and you might see an overall improvement in the Leafs defense and if we really want Holl back then maybe just resign him in the offseason.

As for McCann yeah it sucked to lose him to the Kraken, but I wonder how the Leafs could've afforded to resign him to the same kind of contract that Seattle gave him unless they got rid of a few people to open up some cap space for him?

If you are extending McCann, you are not keeping Kerfoot.

If you lose Holl at expansion and move Kerfoot, you have more than enough to extend McCann.

It was a very clever trade to bring McCann in, but Dubas out-smarted himself on who he chose to expose.

 

[cupcrazyman2]

You would be lucky to get a 3rd for Holl.He holds value for us because of all the injuries we have had.

 

[ULF_55]

Holl and Rielly
for
Hedman

 

[TheDoldrums]

Timmins has never shown an ability to stay healthy for a lengthy period. Trading Holl to make room for him would be like trading a forward because Ondrej Kase was playing well for a bit.

 

[ULF_55]

Agreed, but journeyman is a good evaluation of what he'll likely be:

People denigrate the term journeyman.

Most defensemen really should be considered journeyman.
Outstanding defensemen are better than journeyman defenders.

I'm guessing they could get a 3rd. rounder for him from a team looking to add depth to the team.
He does several things well, just has mobility, strength, and processing concerns.
For me biggest issue would be processing.

 

[ULF_55]

I think it's more people realizing he would never return a 1st.

Kind of like asking if you want unicorn or beef for dinner?

 

[Menzinger]

If you are extending McCann, you are not keeping Kerfoot.

If you lose Holl at expansion and move Kerfoot, you have more than enough to extend McCann.

It was a very clever trade to bring McCann in, but Dubas out-smarted himself on who he chose to expose.

The issue though was always who was going to replace Holl in the rhd with Lily being completely unproven at the time.

If Lily flops, you're left with a huge hole in the top 4 and zero capspace to fill it