Would Walter Gretzky, as a member the working class, will be able to afford hockey today?

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b in vancouver

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Jul 28, 2005
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All kids sports are getting ridiculously expensive - not just hockey. - and the commitments that are asked of kids.
I have two athletic children and it's gotten stupid. Some of the prices and commitments are jaw-dropping. (had two examples but deleted as they sound made up) Other parents and I talk about this all the time.
Somehow we have to divorce children's sports from this business model that it's become. We all simply have to find a way to collectively finance kids sports better.
 

GermanNuck

Registered User
Jun 15, 2011
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I’m actually a bit shocked how expensive hockey in NA seems to be.

In Germany you start relatively cheap, I think my parents paid roughly 200€/year for my club membership including icetime etc. and then equipment on top but travel to games was included. Sure, Germany is a smaller country and our youth leagues are also very regional but I also never felt that there was a benefit in traveling from the far west to the east to play some other random 10 year olds. :D

As someone pointed out earlier: If a club think that you have it in you they’ll pick up most of your costs for better equipment, camps and stuff like that hoping for a good ROI down the road (boy were they wrong in my case).
 

heretik27

Registered User
Apr 18, 2013
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Winnipeg
Folks are seriously burying their heads in the sand if they don't think the sport is becoming much much more economically exclusive with each passing year.

Sure, your kid can "play hockey" with secondhand skates and a wooden stick. What he definitely cannot do is play on a travel team like that, or get 1-on-1 coaching, or play in a showcase tournament on the other side of the country. Guess what creates access to playing at the next level, and continuing to develop? By the time you're 12, shooting tennis balls in your garage isn't gonna get you anywhere but the house league. Which is fine for creating lifelong recreational players, but not for creating Wayne Gretzky.

This is a massive problem with the sport and has been going on right in front of our faces for the past 50 years. Nobody seems to be doing anything about it, beyond token efforts at equipment distribution.

I was a pretty natural athlete myself growing up, but my parents struggled financially and I missed an opportunity at a young age to make the top team because nobody told my parents about the tryouts. The coach for the team said I'd have made it pretty easily when he had asked my parents why I never tried out. I worked my way up over the years, but was sick two years running for AAA tryouts (bronchitis.. yay!) which began right at the end of August only to get sent back down to AA and feel like other kids were skating in mud. I can't say if I had had the same opportunities as another I grew up with who made the NHL that I definitely would have too, but I definitely think there's a snowball effect from losing out on those opportunities at a young age for better training and development/coaching that money and connections provides. On the flipside, a kid who had incredible offensive talent and poise with the puck that I met briefly at a camp but always heard about had told me he wasn't going to play AAA that year because he had to pay for his own hockey (at age 15). He still ended up playing in some junior leagues later on, but I have to wonder if that was true or if it played a role in his hockey career.

When I say we had financial issues. My parents almost lost our house when my dad had cancer, twice, and then again later on because our house had mold. I had one, maybe two pairs of jeans all year. Wore the same clothes all the time. I always had second hand equipment, and used to play with those aluminum sticks that you could fit a blade into because replacing a $15 blade was cheaper than an entire wooden stick. My equipment in my first year was all donated by the community club. I didn't care, I loved hockey. My parents got up as early as 3 am to deliver newspapers before work. My father would work 12 hr overtime shifts on his feet for weeks at a time if they'd let him. I'm grateful for all my parents went through to give me and my brother a happy childhood, but I wouldn't wish this on anyone. This was 25 years ago, do they even sell aluminum sticks anymore? When my parents bought their house in 1991 it was only around $89,000. It's worth over $300,000 now, but wages haven't increased to match the inflation and costs of living. I completely agree with you, it's only becoming more difficult to put your kids into hockey each year as our dollar gets stretched further and further. I just don't know if there's any way to remove the systemic barriers to hockey without a massive overhaul to our economy. Community programs certainly help, but they're essentially a bandaid on a gunshot wound.
 

sparxx87

Don Quixote
Jan 5, 2010
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How does Canadian Tire Jumpstart work? Does it offer just the basics? Will it help with a percentage should your child make a select team?
 

ZJuice

pickle juice connoisseur
May 17, 2010
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My cousin is on some nothing “AAA” team for 12 year old hockey players, his dad forked out $5000 for a tournament in BC.

It’s a rich kid sport nowadays, and prices keep going up.

Not to mention the scandals with coaches getting away with molesting kids because the parents want their kids in the NHL..

edit: I never got to try out for the club leagues because of costs. The rich kids in my class were all AAA players even though they f***ing sucked at hockey cause of $$$$$.

basically your skill doesn’t mean shit unless your parents are rich too
 

authentic

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Jan 28, 2015
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Not all working class jobs are created equal. Especially if you get into a trades that represented by Unions. Benefits, healthcare, insurance. I know many appliance repairmen, plumbers and Electricians making 40 dollars an hour or more. Its not a field where you usually struggle financially.

Working class people that have a good knowledge of investing and budgeting for the future will not struggle financially. Sure you might have to put in some more overtime hours to pay for your kids equipment, but this stereotype that someone working class people can't get into hockey in 2021 is over exaggerated. People of blue collar communities have representation in the hockey community. The cool thing about Canada and the hockey culture is if you live in a small town its even easier as there are a lot of community based drives and support in terms of local rinks and small town attitudes about communities helping each other out. Its why in Sask there is a huge boom of aboriginal hockey players and the numbers will keep increasing.

Its not all doom and gloom. Yes it is expensive, as maintaining indoor ice rinks are not cheap, but its not out of reach for most people.

Many people will ignore this because it doesn't fit with the idea that the talent pool today is not the biggest it's been for the NHL.
 

93LEAFS

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Nov 7, 2009
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I remember in a hockey news article back in like 2009 they tallied up all the costs related to Patrick Kane's minor hockey career and his family spend close to 480k. I think it's fair to say he wouldn't be in the show if he came from a poor family.

I think if the talent is noticed early enough (like in Crosby's case), coaches will notice and there might be some loopholes for avoiding the costs if the family can't afford it. Crosby and his parents delivered newspapers to help pay for his hockey.
Patrick Kane moved from his home at 14 to get on a better travel team. Some of the stories from NHLers or even CHLer development are absolutely insane.
 

93LEAFS

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Nov 7, 2009
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Not all working class jobs are created equal. Especially if you get into a trades that represented by Unions. Benefits, healthcare, insurance. I know many appliance repairmen, plumbers and Electricians making 40 dollars an hour or more. Its not a field where you usually struggle financially.

Working class people that have a good knowledge of investing and budgeting for the future will not struggle financially. Sure you might have to put in some more overtime hours to pay for your kids equipment, but this stereotype that someone working class people can't get into hockey in 2021 is over exaggerated. People of blue collar communities have representation in the hockey community. The cool thing about Canada and the hockey culture is if you live in a small town its even easier as there are a lot of community based drives and support in terms of local rinks and small town attitudes about communities helping each other out. Its why in Sask there is a huge boom of aboriginal hockey players and the numbers will keep increasing.

Its not all doom and gloom. Yes it is expensive, as maintaining indoor ice rinks are not cheap, but its not out of reach for most people.
Have you seen the rate of Sask players in the NHL declining? Last year's draft was good for them, but they aren't producing stars anymore.
 

WhiskeyYerTheDevils

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Apr 27, 2005
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You missed the part where he was also the descendants of land owning aristocrats in the Russian Empire

And it's 25 more acres then anyone I know ever owned
That doesn't make them rich. Sure, higher class in the late Russian empire, but that doesn't mean you've got tons of money to live off of overseas.
 

DudeWhereIsMakar

Bergevin sent me an offer sheet
Apr 25, 2014
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Debatable. But I imagine the typical person similar to Walter Gretzky would make the sacrifice. Blows my mind how expensive it is today, especially for the kids who go to RHA in Winnipeg it's like $15,000 a year.
 

Spirit of 67

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Nov 25, 2016
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No kidding, or the people who thinks every kid has $300 sticks and $1500 equipment.


There's expensive development programs for EVERY sport, people do know that NBA and NFL prospects are going to 60-70k/year tuition high schools in the USA right?
I know people who bitch about the price of tickets but have no problem dropping $200 at a golf course.
 

Dirty Dan

Saturday Night Lupul
May 5, 2010
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Nah, blue collar wages have been stagnant and inequality has grown since the late 80's. You have to spend crazy money just for pre-school these days never mind hockey. There is a reason why millennials such as myself don't plan on having kids and I work in finance.
and likely nothing will change. Immigration will just replace the birth rates and the rich will get richer

and those families will have to work hard to afford a house, tuition for their kids, etc. hockey is out of the question for them , privelleged people wont understand

and especially in these times , you have already 2 years basically where kids won't be playing hockey in most places
 

GrizzGreen

Registered User
Oct 16, 2017
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Laguna
My cousin is on some nothing “AAA” team for 12 year old hockey players, his dad forked out $5000 for a tournament in BC.

It’s a rich kid sport nowadays, and prices keep going up.

Not to mention the scandals with coaches getting away with molesting kids because the parents want their kids in the NHL..

edit: I never got to try out for the club leagues because of costs. The rich kids in my class were all AAA players even though they f***ing sucked at hockey cause of $$$$$.

basically your skill doesn’t mean shit unless your parents are rich too
95% of this is just flat out inaccurate. If you're on the coasts or in a metropolitan area, things like sports, and literally everything else are going to be more expensive. Wealth will never equal talent and there's plenty of AAA programs or even travel programs in general that offer scholarships and financial support for players. The need for ice makes hockey significantly more expensive than other sports and cuts down on access. Feel free to move to the midwest or northern states to give your kids more access to free ice time.
 

Windy River

Registered User
Jan 31, 2013
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It appears that the sport of hockey is becoming too expensive for working class families..

I noticed that Walter Gretzky's job was working as a telephone repairman , a working class job...

If Walter was a father today, will he be able to afford ice hockey for his son Wayne in this era?
Wayne’s early development was on the ponds in his backyard and around town. They’re still free.
 

Hockeylife2018

Registered User
Nov 21, 2011
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people's perspective of reality is so warped, it reminds me of a friend.
He grew up in a family that was well off, he never paid for anything growing up, his parents paid for his post secondary, lived with them rent free for 4 years of school, then 5 years after while he was making 70k a year saving up to buy a house...he had the balls to ask me one day why I'm not able to save up for a house, he still couldn't comprehend it when I tried to explain to him that I've been paying my parents rent since I was 12 just so I would have a house over my head.

making $40 an hour is NOT the norm....for every job making $40 an hour, there are 20 min wage jobs. A $5000 tournament for some is so beyond out of reality when after taxes you are trying to make rent on 30k a year
 

Atas2000

Registered User
Jan 18, 2011
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To play devil's advocate. Didn't those descendants get everything taken from them by the Bolsheviks? The ones that survived anyways since there was essentially a purge of the royal family and all of its loyalists.

They might have been rich pre Russian revolution, but i doubt they were able to hold onto to their assets and Lenin was assembling quite a collection of followers as well as writing Beatles songs. Talented man that one.
That's not a manga about "russian history", you know. There was never "a purge" of loyalists.After the Civil War they were basically pardoned and could live in the Soviet Union if they wished or leave too. It's just a lot of the former upper class people left anyway and way before that right after the revolutions. Obviously large landowners were being diowned. That's the basics of a socialist economy.

The same socialist economy though that allowed ALL soviet kids equal access to ALL sports(to limit it to sports in tis thread). The Soviet Union and other socialist countries will remain the last societies for now that were giving kids equal opportunities regardless of the parents' social status. The Malkin-Ovechkin generation are the last of them soviet kids who got the benfits of that system. When I grew up in the Soviet Union you could do a whatever sport in a kids sports school. For free basically. Talented kids obviously would be offered to transfer to higher levels(sometimes meaning moving of course and not all parents would move for a kid to attend a higher level sports school). The 90s generation of Tarasenko-Kuznetsov are already a different breed. They are like it is everywhere sadly nowadays all some sort of exceptions or a product of the social status of the parents(even if it was being a pro-hockey player before like Tarasenko's dad), Kuznetsov is a sort of an exception. I don't know all the details, but somehow his mother managed to drag him through the levels, moved to other cities for the kid to attend better hockey schools and basically sacrificed everything for her kid to have a chance and it worked out. But most russian hockey players from those generations after are just born into families who can afford hockey. And it does narrow the talent pool drastically.
 

JasonRoseEh

Registered User
Oct 23, 2018
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Makes you wonder how many stars around the world we’ve missed out on.
Spittin Chiclets had a great discussion on this last year but they're far from the only ones who have discussed this. Canada is no longer producing the best of the best, they're getting the best of who can afford it, ditto for the US and elsewhere I'm sure. The price is turning away a lot of families from even getting their child started in the sport.

To answer your question directly; he probably could but Walter would never have the time now that he had then to train, coach and prepare Wayne the way that he did. One has to wonder if Wayne Gretzky is born in the modern era does he become what he did without the time his father put into his early career? Likely not.

(I'm from Brantford btw, not that it matters much, but I met and spoke with Walter numerous times. A great man)
 
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Voight

#winning
Feb 8, 2012
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Wayne Simmonds is a weird case actually. He never played AAA hockey. He played for a decent AA program (Toronto Aeros) and was covered, but no AAA team (where like 99% of NHLers from the GTA) would pick up the tab. He actually got picked up by the JR A Junior Canadians at 16 and got recognized from there. Wayne Simmonds developmental path is very much atypical. It is an extreme outlier. If you are playing AA GTHL hockey (and aren't playing prep school on the side like say Brayden Irwin who played North Toronto AA, and UCC prep school on the side) your odds of making the NHL while being in AA at 15 is almost non-existent.

Minor correction - he played AAA with the Jr Canadiens after a lot of guys his age went to the OHL. It was after 1 season there he went to Jr A Brockville then onto Owen Sound and eventually LA. All within a couple years.
 

Albatros

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Aug 19, 2017
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The same socialist economy though that allowed ALL soviet kids equal access to ALL sports(to limit it to sports in tis thread). The Soviet Union and other socialist countries will remain the last societies for now that were giving kids equal opportunities regardless of the parents' social status. The Malkin-Ovechkin generation are the last of them soviet kids who got the benfits of that system.

Malkin benefited of oligarch Rashnikov financing the local hockey program, Ovechkin came from a privileged family.
 

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