Would Walter Gretzky, as a member the working class, will be able to afford hockey today?

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GreatSaveEssensa

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Everybody in this thread should read the book ‘Selling the Dream’. It will explain a lot. Especially how nowadays most parents are being duped into spending massive amounts for what usually amounts to nothing.
 
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M2Beezy

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It appears that the sport of hockey is becoming too expensive for working class families..

I noticed that Walter Gretzky's job was working as a telephone repairman , a working class job...

If Walter was a father today, will he be able to afford ice hockey for his son Wayne in this era?
Unionized tell workers make $30-45 / hour in BC so Id think so. But I understand and completely agree with your point in general that the sport is TOO outta reach these days for a majority of families in North America
 

93LEAFS

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U.S. basketball and football players develop in college, where they have been given sports scholarships. Equipment and travel expenses for their parents are minimal.

Hockey is unique in that regard. Since I am out of the loop, I'm asking if there is the equivalent of "scholarships" routinely given out at the Junior level, where future NHL players are developed.
The big thing for football is even high-schools have sizable booster programs, and they re-use equipment. You don't see that in hockey. Most schools have fields they can use free of charge, they don't have ice-rinks, so the cost of ice is expensive (In the GTA I know of 4 schools which have dedicated indoor rinks, all of them are private two of which cost around 25k a year). But, I think looking at colleges is misguided. NBA prospects are mainly developed at Prepschools and AAU tournaments now. Most top college football prospects go to flagship high-school programs which in some regions of the United States of large booster programs (look at Southlake Carrol, Lake Travis, Westlake Austin, etc).

Some kids will have AAA programs cover some of the costs if they are elite and they have to be recognized at a young age. So, a ton of kids are going to fall through the cracks, and not be able to make it up later.

The big thing is, most kids who end up top players start playing at 6 or so. The cost of yearly equipment changes for growing kids, ice-time, in many cases private coaching/summer camp/summer travel on top of the yearly AAA costs are astronomical.

Another thing about Wayne, as development becomes more focused on playing for certain AAA programs, he probably would have ended up moving to somewhere in the GTA, or Kitchener or London. Entry level hockey at the houseleague level is pricy, when you start looking at AAA you are talking college tuition fees or higher on a yearly basis.
 
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Sky04

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U.S. basketball and football players develop in college, where they have been given sports scholarships. Equipment and travel expenses for their parents are minimal.

Hockey is unique in that regard. Since I am out of the loop, I'm asking if there is the equivalent of "scholarships" routinely given out at the Junior level, where future NHL players are developed.

Canada has the CHL, most kids will know by 13-14 if they're good enough to go into Major Junior, if they go that route I believe there's minimal costs since they become part of the CHL. If they're taken by a team away from their hometown they usually have billets that are funded by the league for the kids to stay at and they have a weekly stipend for food etc.

If you don't go the major junior route there hockey scholarships for university, you're definitely not making the NHL going that route but at least post-secondary is paid for.
 
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93LEAFS

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Unionized tell workers make $30-45 / hour in BC so Id think so. But I understand and completely agree with your point in general that the sport is TOO outta reach these days for a majority of families in North America
94K CDN pre-taxes with a mortgage and everyday expenses doesn't leave much to afford 15k to 20k a year on AAA hockey or development camps. He would need to be recognized at a young age (which he was), and hope that sponsors for certain AAA programs picked up the tab. There are some notable GTA NHLers through the Marlies who this is the case for. But, for a regular AAA player at the top programs, it is very difficult to afford unless you are upper-middle-class.

Look at Toronto and Van right now. Probably the two wealthiest cities in Canada. How much are people making a 100k a year paying a year to afford a decent house to raise a family in? While most families have now become duel-income, even 200k yearly in the current real estate environment in both cities without family support is going to leave very little for discretionary things like AAA hockey.
 

MadLuke

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Good question, but maybe don't use Gretzky as your example.

This is possible true, when you are that level of good it change the situation, Crosby mother was working at a grocery store and he grew up in a house similar to Gretzky era adjusted. Once you that special that barring injury you are certain to be a first round pick it probably open many door. For example, Crosby got scholarship offer from many schools.


McDavid family received money from juniors team I think (by engaging is father in the coaching staff), in both those it was a father good at and passionate for hockey (and knew nhler) more than specially rich family that gave them a big leg up
 

93LEAFS

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Canada has the CHL, most kids will know by 13-14 if they're good enough to go into Major Junior, if they go that route I believe there's minimal costs since they become part of the CHL. If they're taken by a team away from their hometown they usually have billets that are funded by the league for the kids to stay at have they have a weekly stipend.

If you don't go the major junior route there's hockey scholarships for university, you're definitely not making the NHL going that route but at least post-secondary is paid for.
Canada doesn't have College Hockey scholarships. You can make the NHL through the NCAA scholarship system. The big thing is though, to get good enough to get a D1 scholarship, you have likely paid out that cost or more from ages 6-15. Plus, unless you are a top talent, a lot of kids aren't on full rides, but fractional scholarships, at elite private NCAA universities (say Notre Dame or BU) even on a half-ride, you are talking 25k USD yearly in tuition.
 
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93LEAFS

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This is possible true, when you are that level of good it change the situation, Crosby mother was working at a grocery store and he grew up in a house similar to Gretzky era adjusted. Once you that special that barring injury you are certain to be a first round pick it probably open many door. For example, Crosby got scholarship offer from many schools.


McDavid family received money from juniors team I think (by engaging is father in the coaching staff), in both those it was a father good at and passionate for hockey (and knew nhler) more than specially rich family that gave them a big leg up
The Stromes where helped through the AAA program that McDavid was a part of. Top talent can get recognized.

To be honest, I think Wayne's biggest issue may actually be location. A top program like the Marlies or Don Mills Flyers would cover a ton for him, but he'd have to move to the GTA (which raises a whole bunch of different financial questions).
 

Paperbagofglory

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Everybody in this thread should read the book ‘Selling the Dream’. It will explain a lot. Especially how nowadays most parents are being duped into spending massive amounts for what usually amounts to nothing.

If a parent is an idiot and pays a stranger a ridiculous amount of money and gives promises of coaching the kid to be NHL ready, its the parents fault for being idiots. Being duped by con men is no indication that things are more expensive, it just means parents are more desperate to use their kid as a meal ticket.
 

93LEAFS

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Everybody in this thread should read the book ‘Selling the Dream’. It will explain a lot. Especially how nowadays most parents are being duped into spending massive amounts for what usually amounts to nothing.
If you want to read a great book and a crushing look at amateur athletics, read Play Their Hearts Out by George Dohrmann. An absolutely crushing look at the AAU basketball scene in the mid-2000's.
 
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93LEAFS

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If a parent is an idiot and pays a stranger a ridiculous amount of money and gives promises of coaching the kid to be NHL ready, its the parents fault for being idiots. Being duped by con men is no indication that things are more expensive, it just means parents are more desperate to use their kid as a meal ticket.
I don't think many of the upper-class parents who pay for these systems are looking at their kid as a meal ticket. It's more that the barriers to entry with top AAA programs are astronomical. A ton of NHLers parents still work their 9-5's. Its more chasing the dream of being an NHLer than the financial windfall.
 

M2Beezy

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94K CDN pre-taxes with a mortgage and everyday expenses doesn't leave much to afford 15k to 20k a year on AAA hockey or development camps. He would need to be recognized at a young age (which he was), and hope that sponsors for certain AAA programs picked up the tab. There are some notable GTA NHLers through the Marlies who this is the case for. But, for a regular AAA player at the top programs, it is very difficult to afford unless you are upper-middle-class.

Look at Toronto and Van right now. Probably the two wealthiest cities in Canada. How much are people making a 100k a year paying a year to afford a decent house to raise a family in? While most families have now become duel-income, even 200k yearly in the current real estate environment in both cities without family support is going to leave very little for discretionary things like AAA hockey.
Hmmm good post and response, I didnt realize it was that much. Probably out a reach then
 

Amazinmets73

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Dec 1, 2015
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Michael Ferland's story....wasn't he just skating on the public rinks and parents got togther to help pay his fees?
Yea, I was gonna mention him as well. I truly believe any Canadian with NHL level talent who dedicates himself to the sport will receive the necessary assistance. The issue lies in individuals who have talent but are discouraged from playing in the first place.
 

Gabe Kupari

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Unionized tell workers make $30-45 / hour in BC so Id think so. But I understand and completely agree with your point in general that the sport is TOO outta reach these days for a majority of families in North America

In BC a 280 000 dollar house in Manitoba so like 1200 to 1500 sq feet costs over 1 million dollars. Ppl in BC are all house poor
 

Sky04

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Canada doesn't have College Hockey scholarships. You can make the NHL through the NCAA scholarship system. The big thing is though, to get good enough to get a D1 scholarship, you have likely paid out that cost or more from ages 6-15. Plus, unless you are a top talent, a lot of kids aren't on full rides, but fractional scholarships, at elite private NCAA universities (say Notre Dame or BU) even on a half-ride, you are talking 25k USD yearly in tuition.

Just looked it up, looks like there aren't full scholarships but you can get tuition subsidized in you're on the a university sports team.
 

Voight

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Other parents would have chipped in once they realized how good he was. It happened with Chris Stewart & Wayne Simmonds among many other players. They even lived with team mates when their parents struggled.

Wally would have been able to at least get him in house league and from there people would have seen his talent.

This is possible true, when you are that level of good it change the situation, Crosby mother was working at a grocery store and he grew up in a house similar to Gretzky era adjusted. Once you that special that barring injury you are certain to be a first round pick it probably open many door. For example, Crosby got scholarship offer from many schools.


McDavid family received money from juniors team I think (by engaging is father in the coaching staff), in both those it was a father good at and passionate for hockey (and knew nhler) more than specially rich family that gave them a big leg up

Assistant AAA coaches do make some money (forgot the exact amount), but in McDavids case his dad is/was a high income earner IIRC.
 
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Wandering Cynic

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I can't think of any recent NHL drafted players from Canada that didn't come from a wealthy background. All of them are either sons of NHLers or sons of super wealthy parents. To attempt to go professional, the game has essentially become priced out for most people.

Natural talent can easily be replaced by round the clock hockey camps and training programs. Also, the politics in minor hockey in Canada is a whole different animal.
 

MadLuke

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I can't think of any recent NHL drafted players from Canada that didn't come from a wealthy background. All of them are either sons of NHLers or sons of super wealthy parents. To attempt to go professional, the game has essentially become priced out for most people.

Are the McDavid "wealthy":
Take a Tour of Connor McDavid's House (with Connor and Gene Principe) | Go Auto

Or the Stromes family ?

Or by recent you are talking the last 3-5 years (those 2 example starting to date by now) ?
 
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93LEAFS

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Other parents would have chipped in once they realized how good he was. It happened with Chris Stewart & Wayne Simmonds among many other players. They even lived with team mates when their parents struggled.

Wally would have been able to at least get him in house league and from there people would have seen his talent.



Assistant AAA coaches do make some money (forgot the exact amount), but in McDavids case his dad is/was a high income earner IIRC.
Wayne Simmonds is a weird case actually. He never played AAA hockey. He played for a decent AA program (Toronto Aeros) and was covered, but no AAA team (where like 99% of NHLers from the GTA) would pick up the tab. He actually got picked up by the JR A Junior Canadians at 16 and got recognized from there. Wayne Simmonds developmental path is very much atypical. It is an extreme outlier. If you are playing AA GTHL hockey (and aren't playing prep school on the side like say Brayden Irwin who played North Toronto AA, and UCC prep school on the side) your odds of making the NHL while being in AA at 15 is almost non-existent.
 

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