World Junior Thread II

[JT AM da real deal]

Not even close

Byram and Zegras have been the best players by far

Stuetzle too but his team was eliminated too early.

I think you have zero clue about pro hockey ... Z is a PP specialist in pro hockey not fast enough not big enough not tough enough on puck but will get $$$ for his points ... Byram will be another Rielly if that's what you want a pro player but not a difference maker ...

Lundell ruled last night game ... he was fastest guy ... no one took puck from him ever ... he controlled play and da puck whenever he wanted ... a man against boys ... in every area of rink whenever he wanted too ... if he could have played entire game it was 9-0 Finland ... Z does not even get a chance ... only 34 or 36 finland was next man

Stuelze has skills too and will get his points and $$$ but he does not rule da ice and da game ... Z and Byram and Stuz are not difference makers he win games on their own ... they are pieces you build around your core

 

[Fogelhund]

and Martin St Louis was like 5'6'' which gave hope to every short parent of a short kid playing minor hockey but just because the odd very short or very light player makes it doesn't mean they all will

Sure... but the point made, is it won't be his size that holds him back... If they are talented enough, they will play.

 

[The Podium]

I think you have zero clue about pro hockey ... Z is a PP specialist in pro hockey not fast enough not big enough not tough enough on puck but will get $$$ for his points ... Byram will be another Rielly if that's what you want a pro player but not a difference maker ...

Lundell ruled last night game ... he was fastest guy ... no one took puck from him ever ... he controlled play and da puck whenever he wanted ... a man against boys ... in every area of rink whenever he wanted too ... if he could have played entire game it was 9-0 Finland ... Z does not even get a chance ... only 34 or 36 finland was next man

Stuelze has skills too and will get his points and $$$ but he does not rule da ice and da game ... Z and Byram and Stuz are not difference makers he win games on their own ... they are pieces you build around your core

First of all, learn the word "the" please

Just because a player is big and can control the puck doesnt mean they will be the next Kopitar. In fact, these players very very rarely develop into what you want.

Byram also dominated defensively and seems more like a prime Ducan Keith than a Reilly.

Zegras, Byram and Stuetzle are different makers, they literally win games on their own and are absolutely core players.

 

[Fogelhund]

I think you have zero clue about pro hockey ... Z is a PP specialist in pro hockey not fast enough not big enough not tough enough on puck but will get $$$ for his points ... Byram will be another Rielly if that's what you want a pro player but not a difference maker ...

Lundell ruled last night game ... he was fastest guy ... no one took puck from him ever ... he controlled play and da puck whenever he wanted ... a man against boys ... in every area of rink whenever he wanted too ... if he could have played entire game it was 9-0 Finland ... Z does not even get a chance ... only 34 or 36 finland was next man

Stuelze has skills too and will get his points and $$$ but he does not rule da ice and da game ... Z and Byram and Stuz are not difference makers he win games on their own ... they are pieces you build around your core

I just think you guys are looking at different things... most people are looking at these guys play in the tournament, and commenting on just their tournament play. You are looking at how you think these guys will translate to the NHL... two different things.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

First of all, learn the word "the" please

Just because a player is big and can control the puck doesnt mean they will be the next Kopitar. In fact, these players very very rarely develop into what you want.

Byram also dominated defensively and seems more like a prime Ducan Keith than a Reilly.

Zegras, Byram and Stuetzle are different makers, they literally win games on their own and are absolutely core players.

In juniors yes but not in pro hockey where everyone can play ... no one except maybe Cozens is taking puck away from Lundell NO ONE ... Z could never hold it for less than a millisecond before he lost it 100 times out of 100 to Lundell ... it is a man against a boy

 

[Oscar Peterson]

I just think you guys are looking at different things... most people are looking at these guys play in the tournament, and commenting on just their tournament play. You are looking at how you think these guys will translate to the NHL... two different things.

It's just a whack take though. Stuetzle is not afraid to play the body, has a good defensive stick, and elite puck handling. Lundell last night couldn't even hold on to the puck in the offensive zone, although he was fantastic every game prior. Not a single GM in the league would take Lundell over Stuetzle.

 

[The Podium]

It's just a whack take though. Stuetzle is not afraid to play the body, has a good defensive stick, and elite puck handling. Lundell last night couldn't even hold on to the puck in the offensive zone, although he was fantastic every game prior. Not a single GM in the league would take Lundell over Stuetzle.

I dont think a single GM in the league would take Lundell over any of Cozens, Zegras, Stuetzle or Byram. Probably more.

And this coming from someone who loves Lundell and wanted the Leafs to move up for him.

 

[The Podium]

In juniors yes but not in pro hockey where everyone can play ... no one except maybe Cozens is taking puck away from Lundell NO ONE ... Z could never hold it for less than a millisecond before he lost it 100 times out of 100 to Lundell ... it is a man against a boy

That is literally the opposite of what happens. In juniors the big guys learn to use their body to physically dominate children, but when they match up against men they can no longer do that and tend to fade. Where as the shifty guys who learned how to evade contact can still do it at the next level.

Dylan Strome vs. Mitch Marner is a perfect example.

Lucky for Lundell though he is developing against men in Finland.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

That is literally the opposite of what happens. In juniors the big guys learn to use their body to physically dominate children, but when they match up against men they can no longer do that and tend to fade. Where as the shifty guys who learned how to evade contact can still do it at the next level.

Dylan Strome vs. Mitch Marner is a perfect example.

Lucky for Lundell though he is developing against men in Finland.

One of my kids played on various teams over da years with Dylan and Mitch ... 2 different kids and families ... but truth is neither were very fast ... Dylan was on a loaded Marlies team with Stumpy and there was never a chance Mitch could get through that team even though he tried many times ... he did not have raw speed to beat people on his own ... he still doesn't ... but he can be a piece on a team like a Z who can rack up PP points ... Dylan was always and still is smartest guy on any ice he plays on ... but he is not on a loaded team anymore ... put Dylan on a loaded team with speed and he will stand out again ... because he knows best how to utilize each guy on ice ...

What we are lacking is a guy like Lundell who carries da play ... a guy who is fastest skater ... a guy who is strong on da puck and no one can take from him ... a guy who plays a 200 foot game ... and he has a little skill too (not as much as Z or Mitch) but enough to compete

 

[Fogelhund]

In juniors yes but not in pro hockey where everyone can play ... no one except maybe Cozens is taking puck away from Lundell NO ONE ... Z could never hold it for less than a millisecond before he lost it 100 times out of 100 to Lundell ... it is a man against a boy

A guy I watched some, was Artemi Knyazev. I don't know if you watched him much, but what did you think of his game?

 

[Fogelhund]

One of my kids played on various teams over da years with Dylan and Mitch ... 2 different kids and families ... but truth is neither were very fast ... Dylan was on a loaded Marlies team with Stumpy and there was never a chance Mitch could get through that team even though he tried many times ... he did not have raw speed to beat people on his own ... he still doesn't ... but he can be a piece on a team like a Z who can rack up PP points ... Dylan was always and still is smartest guy on any ice he plays on ... but he is not on a loaded team anymore ... put Dylan on a loaded team with speed and he will stand out again ... because he knows best how to utilize each guy on ice ...

What we are lacking is a guy like Lundell who carries da play ... a guy who is fastest skater ... a guy who is strong on da puck and no one can take from him ... a guy who plays a 200 foot game ... and he has a little skill too (not as much as Z or Mitch) but enough to compete

Are you thinking as a Tavares replacement long-term, or a 3C? Wouldn't Lundell be overkill on 3C? Why not go after a guy more like Helenius, who could be a beast of a 3C, but not likely further upside?

 

[JT AM da real deal]

A guy I watched some, was Artemi Knyazev. I don't know if you watched him much, but what did you think of his game?

Like him very strong on skates and puck ... with only hockey going on right now our scouting staff should be trying to get da gems ... and I don't mean da big point guys with skill ... we got those already ... i mean guys who can help win us games on lines 2-4

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Are you thinking as a Tavares replacement long-term, or a 3C? Wouldn't Lundell be overkill on 3C? Why not go after a guy more like Helenius, who could be a beast of a 3C, but not likely further upside?

I really like H too ... I was thinking about Cup this year for my dad and could see Lundell helping us get there but yes he will develop faster than we can afford him but I am thinking here and now I guess too much

 

[The Podium]

One of my kids played on various teams over da years with Dylan and Mitch ... 2 different kids and families ... but truth is neither were very fast ... Dylan was on a loaded Marlies team with Stumpy and there was never a chance Mitch could get through that team even though he tried many times ... he did not have raw speed to beat people on his own ... he still doesn't ... but he can be a piece on a team like a Z who can rack up PP points ... Dylan was always and still is smartest guy on any ice he plays on ... but he is not on a loaded team anymore ... put Dylan on a loaded team with speed and he will stand out again ... because he knows best how to utilize each guy on ice ...

What we are lacking is a guy like Lundell who carries da play ... a guy who is fastest skater ... a guy who is strong on da puck and no one can take from him ... a guy who plays a 200 foot game ... and he has a little skill too (not as much as Z or Mitch) but enough to compete

First of all, you veered really far from your original argument. Just because you project Lundell to be good at the next level does not mean he was a top player at the tournament.

But since your argument went in this direction, Lundell is literally a worse Matthews. Yes another one would be ideal, but we have one of those already.

Like I said, these guys are hard to develop. You risk a mid 1st on them, and not a high 1st because they miss more often than the hit. Matthews being the exception because he is a big guy with the skill set better than most small guys.

Would Lundell developing into Kopitar be more useful than Zegras becoming Marner at the next level? Absolutely. But you are more likely to get Eriksson Ek who dominated the tourney in 2017 more than Lundell.

At this point, Lundell played well but didnt dominate like the others I mentioned. Just because his skillset is ideal at the next level, does not mean hell develop at the next level.

 

[Fogelhund]

I really like H too ... I was thinking about Cup this year for my dad and could see Lundell helping us get there but yes he will develop faster than we can afford him but I am thinking here and now I guess too much

I think Helenius could step into the NHL in 2021/22.. still has some game and speed to work on, but I think he'd be effective. I really enjoyed his game in the WJC. Good puck possession guy, and isn't afraid to be somewhat physical... with that size, you'd like to see even more of that.

Roman Schmidt is another guy I'd hope we'd look at for the 2021 draft. More of that Meat and Potatoes guys, that you win with, in the lower tier of your lineup. Big, great skater (family are figure skaters and that's how he started out)... limited offensive upside, but I think has the capability of being elite defensively, if guided right. (not a WJC, apologies for off topic)

I get where you are coming from with your comments, though surely every GM would take Stutzle, Cozens, Zegras, over Lundell, if given them for free.... But, maybe at this juncture, Lundell brings a game that helps Toronto win more than the others, given our strengths and weaknesses. Lundell is one of the leaders in the tournament in dot... fourth in % won, but the leader in total faceoffs won... that being said, Abramov was 3rd in faceoffs % won... so pretty decent there too.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

First of all, you veered really far from your original argument. Just because you project Lundell to be good at the next level does not mean he was a top player at the tournament.

But since your argument went in this direction, Lundell is literally a worse Matthews. Yes another one would be ideal, but we have one of those already.

Like I said, these guys are hard to develop. You risk a mid 1st on them, and not a high 1st because they miss more often than the hit. Matthews being the exception because he is a big guy with the skill set better than most small guys.

Would Lundell developing into Kopitar be more useful than Zegras becoming Marner at the next level? Absolutely. But you are more likely to get Eriksson Ek who dominated the tourney in 2017 more than Lundell.

At this point, Lundell played well but didnt dominate like the others I mentioned. Just because his skillset is ideal at the next level, does not mean hell develop at the next level.

I tend to judge guys when they 1 on 1 against each other a bit too much ... Z may be better than Mitch I don't know ... I was thinking of a guy Leafs could use this summer playoffs as a dominating 3rd line puck possession centre with a 200 foot physical game with some skill

 

[The Podium]

I tend to judge guys when they 1 on 1 against each other a bit too much ... Z may be better than Mitch I don't know ... I was thinking of a guy Leafs could use this summer playoffs as a dominating 3rd line puck possession centre with a 200 foot physical game with some skill

The Leafs could absolutely use a guy like Lundell. He is literally what this team is missing at 3C. He is a solid player that competes and is the type of guy I prefer to build my team around. However I don’t think he has the high end skill set to be that guy. IMO he tops out closer to a Jordan Staal.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

The Leafs could absolutely use a guy like Lundell. He is literally what this team is missing at 3C. He is a solid player that competes and is the type of guy I prefer to build my team around. However I don’t think he has the high end skill set to be that guy. IMO he tops out closer to a Jordan Staal.

Agreed maybe he maxs out as a 2nd line centre or maybe not ... but i'd like a puck possession strong skating 3C with some size who can play in both ends and kill penalties

 

[The Podium]

Agreed maybe he maxs out as a 2nd line centre or maybe not ... but i'd like a puck possession strong skating 3C with some size who can play in both ends and kill penalties

Thats why I wanted the Leafs to draft him. Personally I think he is about 2-3 years away from the NHL which would line up perfectly with the tail end of Tavares contract. He is eased in as the 3C until JT leaves as a FA and takes over the reigns as 2C behind Matthews.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

The Leafs could absolutely use a guy like Lundell. He is literally what this team is missing at 3C. He is a solid player that competes and is the type of guy I prefer to build my team around. However I don’t think he has the high end skill set to be that guy. IMO he tops out closer to a Jordan Staal.

I like Newhook too .. a bit smaller and a little more of a passer but I like his doggedness when he is on puck in both ends of ice and his speed may even be a bit better than Lundell ... he would be my 2nd target in this tournament ... i don't have faith in Kerfoot to get it done when it counts although he is clearly best we got today

 

[The Podium]

I like Newhook too .. a bit smaller and a little more of a passer but I like his doggedness when he is on puck in both ends of ice and his speed may even be a bit better than Lundell ... he would be my 2nd target in this tournament ... i don't have faith in Kerfoot to get it done when it counts although he is clearly best we got today

Colorado is crushing the draft the last little bit with players I want

 

[hotpaws]

Sure... but the point made, is it won't be his size that holds him back... If they are talented enough, they will play.

size does play a factor since the question whether he makes it is , is he talented enough at his size to be an effective NHLer and not simply is his talent equal to his peers who are bigger and stronger than he is

 

[JT AM da real deal]

size does play a factor since the question whether he makes it is , is he talented enough at his size to be an effective NHLer and not simply is his talent equal to his peers who are bigger and stronger than he is

Guy with unreal skill like a Z will make it and likely put up big point numbers ... and he will get big $$$ too ... but what we are forget is any team can only have so many guys with same skill sets ... we are lacking a 3C who can skate and control puck possession ... and I hope I am wrong here but I would have liked an Edmundson to play with Rielly over a Brodie ... a lot bigger and more physically imposing guy like Muzzy and someone who can drop somebody if Boston starts to run Rielly into glass and end da stupidity ...

 

[Mitch nylander]

Wonder if Akhtyamov gets to start, after Askarov's dreadful performance.

 

[The CyNick]

Canadian and American prospects looking great. Really wish Leafs prioritized selecting Canadians in the draft given how many of those kids grew up Leafs fans, but I guess we like the Euros.

Unfortunate to see a guy like Amirov be unable to produce anything once the competition got the most challenging.