World Cup of Hockey 2028

[1Gold Standard]

Think you. I was under the mistaken impression that the federations ran the leagues in most countries. I was wrong. In any event, it seems there are ways for he NHL to get around the IIHF. But personally, I think the IIHF will come around.

It's crazy that I have to repeat this over and over again everytime the NHL has a marketing brain fart on what kind of international commercial tournament they can hold without the IIHF involvment.

The invidivual sport federations of each representative country via the IIHF has to agree for Team(s) "Insert Country Name" and to use a facsimile of their national team uniforms. And the NHL cannot use it without their consent. It is trademark copyrighted.

Let's just use Team Sweden as an example. trademark Three Crowns on a blue/yellow jersey. If the Swedish Ice Hockey Federation says, no thanks we're not interested in your commercial tournment and do not consent... then Team Sweden in their national team jersy cannot compete in the tournament.

What the NHL can do is get some off color generic blue jersey with yellow trimming and call it NHL All Stars from Sweden. And they will have to do that for most of the 8 competing proposed 8 teams.

I imagine the money grubbers at Hockey Canada and USAH will roll over and do whatever the NHL wants. (including allowing the teams currently banned) but there will be pushback from all others.

No, this tournament the way Bettman is envisioning it. won't happen.

.

 

[Tawnos]

It's crazy that I have to repeat this over and over again everytime the NHL has a marketing brain fart on what kind of international commercial tournament they can hold without the IIHF involvment.

The invidivual sport federations of each representative country via the IIHF has to agree for Team(s) "Insert Country Name" and to use a facsimile of their national team uniforms. And the NHL cannot use it without their consent. It is trademark copyrighted.

Let's just use Team Sweden as an example. trademark Three Crowns on a blue/yellow jersey. If the Swedish Ice Hockey Federation says, no thanks we're not interested in your commercial tournment and do not consent... then Team Sweden in their national team jersy cannot compete in the tournament.

What the NHL can do is get some off color generic blue jersey with yellow trimming and call it NHL All Stars from Sweden. And they will have to do that for most of the 8 competing proposed 8 teams.

I imagine the money grubbers at Hockey Canada and USAH will roll over and do whatever the NHL wants. (including allowing the teams currently banned) but there will be pushback from all others.

No, this tournament the way Bettman is envisioning it. won't happen.

.

It's pretty funny to see someone say that this is some kind of major roadblock considering the tournament going on right now.

 

[Tawnos]

Think you. I was under the mistaken impression that the federations ran the leagues in most countries. I was wrong. In any event, it seems there are ways for he NHL to get around the IIHF. But personally, I think the IIHF will come around.

It's more complicated, because just shutting down a league doesn't mean you've got access to the best players from the country the league is in.

Just for example, let's say the Czechia hockey federation shuts down Extraliga for the two weeks. That doesn't give the national team access to David Tomasek, who is the leading scorer in the SHL, in the event they want him.

 

[varsaku]

It's pretty funny to see someone say that this is some kind of major roadblock considering the tournament going on right now.

If it wasn't a roadblock we would be seeing more than 4 nations at this tournament. Clearly an agreement couldn't be reached to get more nations involved.

 

[Tawnos]

If it wasn't a roadblock we would be seeing more than 4 nations at this tournament. Clearly an agreement couldn't be reached to get more nations involved.

The teams not involved here have nothing to do with trademark issues.

 

[Yukon Joe]

It's crazy that I have to repeat this over and over again everytime the NHL has a marketing brain fart on what kind of international commercial tournament they can hold without the IIHF involvment.

The invidivual sport federations of each representative country via the IIHF has to agree for Team(s) "Insert Country Name" and to use a facsimile of their national team uniforms. And the NHL cannot use it without their consent. It is trademark copyrighted.

Let's just use Team Sweden as an example. trademark Three Crowns on a blue/yellow jersey. If the Swedish Ice Hockey Federation says, no thanks we're not interested in your commercial tournment and do not consent... then Team Sweden in their national team jersy cannot compete in the tournament.

I'm certainly not an expert on EU/Swedish trademark law, but I have taken course on trademark law. I really do not think this is correct.

(for starters - trademark/copyright are two different things. What you're talking about here are trademarks. Copyright is for more artistic works, like a song or a book)

In Canada (which I know best) - you would be prohibited from using official government symbols like the Government of Canada wordmark or the Coat of Arms. Supposedly you're prohibited from using the flag itself without permission, though I don't think this is strongly enforced.

But no one is prohibited from using a red maple leaf or the word Canada. If you want to use the exact 11-point red maple leaf as it appears on the flag maybe, but a red maple leaf by itself? My friend nature itself invented that - no possible trademark.

For Sweden - if you want to use the exact model of the three Crowns that appears on the coat of arms, or the Swedish air force - then you have problems. But just three generic golden crowns on a blue background? I believe anyone would be fine. This wiki article suggests three crowns have been used in many different applications.

Now you want to be careful and not exactly replicate any specific design. You couldn't use the exact jersey from, say, the 2016 World Cup.

No - the reason the IIHF needs to be involved is for scheduling. And the national leagues and national federations would defer to the IIHF rather than negotiate separately with the NHL, as the IIHF would have more bargaining power.

 

[Takuto Maruki]

It's pretty funny to see someone say that this is some kind of major roadblock considering the tournament going on right now.

Says a lot that the Finnish and Swedish ice hockey feds 'rolled over' WRT doing what the NHL wants considering the pro level player base is desperate to represent their country at a high level, whether it be in a league sanctioned World Cup or the Olympics.

 

[Tawnos]

Says a lot that the Finnish and Swedish ice hockey feds 'rolled over' WRT doing what the NHL wants considering the pro level player base is desperate to represent their country at a high level, whether it be in a league sanctioned World Cup or the Olympics.

Did they roll over? Or are they simply not involved in the tournament this year.

 

[GKJ]

As said many times before. The idea of new international (IIHF) hockey schedule was discussed at the 2012 Hockey Forum. In principle, NHL & KHL agreed on a new model with mandatory international break in February for Olympics & NHL´s World Cup of Hockey and IIHF Worlds taking place every second year. But, IIHF and European member countries refused that model. As a result, the NHL is organising the 4 Nations in February instead of off-season (Aug/Sept) as before. And proposing the World Cup of Hockey to be held in-season (February?). As for the hosting city of the 2028 World Cup, you need to go with the SKA Arena in St.Petersburg - the largest hockey venue in the world. There is not better hockey venue in Europe. But, Finns & Swedes will ....

They were never doing 4 Nations in September. Though there was discussion about about qualifying rounds for the World Cup, I’d have to think that would be in August or September.

 

[vorky]

They were never doing 4 Nations in September. Though there was discussion about about qualifying rounds for the World Cup, I’d have to think that would be in August or September.

I though it is clear what I mean ... the tournaments organised by the NHL - the World Cup of Hockey & other clones. In 1996 & 2024 te tournament was played in Aug/Sept, while in 2016 the NHL hosted it in Sept. We can go back to the Canada Cups if you wish ... the same scheduling in Aug or Sept. My point is as follows. Historically the NHL organised this kind of tournament in Aug or Sept, but after the 2012 Hockey Forum the NHL realised the KHL´s proposal of holding it in FEBRUARY is a good idea. Both leagues agreed on international scheduling, but IIHF & Euros are blocking the much needed changes.

 

[GKJ]

I thought it is clear what I mean ... the tournaments organised by the NHL - the World Cup of Hockey & other clones. In 1996 & 2024 te tournament was played in Aug/Sept, while in 2016 the NHL hosted it in Sept. We can go back to the Canada Cups if you wish ... the same scheduling in Aug or Sept. My point is a follows. Historically the NHL organised this kind of tournament in Aug or Sept, but after the 2012 Hockey Forum the NHL realised the KHL´s proposal of holding it in FEBRUARY is a good idea. Both leagues agreed on international scheduling, but IIHF & Euros are blocking the much needed changes.

Historically, yes, and ideally, it still would be, had it been more forcibly established and given the air to be a major sports event. Unfortunately, they didn’t, and the sports calendar is simply too crowded in North America at that time of year to make it worth their while.

 

[vorky]

Historically, yes, and ideally, it still would be, had it been more forcibly established and given the air to be a major sports event. Unfortunately, they didn’t, and the sports calendar is simply too crowded in North America at that time of year to make it worth their while.

By "calendar is simply too crowded in North America at that time" you mean September?

 

[GKJ]

By "calendar is simply too crowded in North America at that time" you mean September?

Yes. There just isn’t the room for it. The space for it is after NFL playoffs

 

[vorky]

Yes. There just isn’t the room for it. The space for it is after NFL playoffs

OK, thanks.

Then I do not get why the NHL organised this kind of tournaments in Sept earlier. But fine.

Global hockey would win if all stakeholders agreed on common IIHF international schedule. Unfortunately, the 2012 attempt failed. European leagues are biggest victims of the status quo when the IIHF Worlds take place in May.

 

[GKJ]

OK, thanks.

Then I do not get why the NHL organised this kind of tournaments in Sept earlier. But fine.

Global hockey would win if all stakeholders agreed on common IIHF international schedule. Unfortunately, the 2012 attempt failed. European leagues are biggest victims of the status quo when the IIHF Worlds take place in May.

They did it so that they didn’t interrupt the NHL season and the audience in North America was chiefly geared toward Canadians, and there wasn’t as much American football to compete with. The 2016 tournament did poorly in ratings. The Canada/Sweden game on Wednesday I believe did just around a quarter of the audience that Canada/USA in 2016 did - in the United States. Going up against pro and college football in the US in the autumn is too much. Baseball suffers because of it as well. Also one reason why the NHL season starts a week later is because ESPN has the rights to the wild card round of the baseball playoffs.


There also seems to be much more of a willingness or even desire among owners to stop the season to run it whereas before, releasing the players to play in Olympics was seen more of a concession to them. They now seem to be able to find more ways to make money, and plus audiences are conditioned to watch hockey in February than September. During Covid we had people sitting at home during that summer, and NHL (and NBA) didn’t do well in TV ratings.

Another thing is you also have NHL teams who start their seasons in Europe, and that would be too condensed for the NHL considering it takes them 10 years to figure out how to put together tournaments.

 

[vorky]

They did it so that they didn’t interrupt the NHL season and the audience in North America was chiefly geared toward Canadians, and there wasn’t as much American football to compete with. The 2016 tournament did poorly in ratings. The Canada/Sweden game on Wednesday I believe did just around a quarter of the audience that Canada/USA in 2016 did - in the United States. Going up against pro and college football in the US in the autumn is too much. Baseball suffers because of it as well. Also one reason why the NHL season starts a week later is because ESPN has the rights to the wild card round of the baseball playoffs.


There also seems to be much more of a willingness or even desire among owners to stop the season to run it whereas before, releasing the players to play in Olympics was seen more of a concession to them. They now seem to be able to find more ways to make money, and plus audiences are conditioned to watch hockey in February than September. During Covid we had people sitting at home during that summer, and NHL (and NBA) didn’t do well in TV ratings.

Another thing is you also have NHL teams who start their seasons in Europe, and that would be too condensed for the NHL considering it takes them 10 years to figure out how to put together tournaments.

Thank you.

So, if the NHL wants the World Cup to be played regularly & Olympics as well .... february break in every 2nd year is a must. The NHL will not bankrupt due this pause.

It will be interesting to follow how it will influence the IIHF.

 

[GKJ]

Thank you.

So, if the NHL want the World Cup to be played regularly & Olympics as well .... february break in every 2nd year is a must. The NHL will not bankrupt due this pause.

It will be interesting to follow how it will influence the IIHF.

I should clear up, the CAN/SWE game did a quarter better than the CAN/USA game did in 2016.

I think they reached a point where if they’re willing to shut down the season for the Olympics, they should be willing to do it when they’re going to benefit more from it in a World Cup, that’s always going to be played in North America. I question though how they intend on having European markets more involved. They did talk about qualifying tournaments, which would probably still have to be in August or September.

 

[joelef]

They should what baseball wbc does. Have pretty loose eligibility. For example you can have a team Italy that American and Canadian nhl players of Italian descent

 

[Golden_Jet]

They should what baseball wbc does. Have pretty loose eligibility. For example you can have a team Italy that American and Canadian nhl players of Italian descent

That’s a dumb method, if mlb does that.

 

[vorky]

I should clear up, the CAN/SWE game did a quarter better than the CAN/USA game did in 2016.

I think they reached a point where if they’re willing to shut down the season for the Olympics, they should be willing to do it when they’re going to benefit more from it in a World Cup, that’s always going to be played in North America. I question though how they intend on having European markets more involved. They did talk about qualifying tournaments, which would probably still have to be in August or September.

And that is my question ... as I wrote earlier, there was discussion in 2012 how to change the international schedule. KHL´s proposal was accepted by NHL, refused by IIHF & European hockey federations.

 

[GKJ]

And that is my question ... as I wrote earlier, there was discussion in 2012 how to change the international schedule. KHL´s proposal was accepted by NHL, refused by IIHF & European hockey federations.

I know you’ve talked about that but I don’t recall what that was. But 2012 is a lifetime ago at this point.

 

[joelef]

That’s a dumb method, if mlb does that.

They go buy if your eligible and countries like Italy has pretty loose law citizenship for diaspora

 

[GKJ]

That’s a dumb method, if mlb does that.

It keeps more teams competitive though, and if you’re trying to expand globally, you want more people invested.

 

[vorky]

I know you’ve talked about that but I don’t recall what that was. But 2012 is a lifetime ago at this point.

At the 2012 Barcelona Hockey Forum they discussed two issues:

1) European competition (NHL/KHL model vs UEFA CL model)

2) International schedule with Olympics, NHL World Cup & IIHF Worlds. The KHL´s propsosal looked like

year 1 - Olympics
year 2 - IIHF Worlds
year 3 - NHL World Cup
year 4 - IIHF Worlds
year 5 - Olympics
year 6 - IIHF Worlds
year 7 - NHL World Cup
year 8 - IIHF Worlds

The NHL was willing to pause their season in February for Olympcis & NHL World Cup. The KHL as well. The ideal scenario would be if the IIHF Worlds take place in February as well. But, the IIHF & Euros refused that proposal. IIHF´s argument was money, they claim the organisation would lose money with Worlds happening every second year.

Afterwards, in the upcoming years the NHL & KHL discussed the topic, they negotiated about a club tournament/match-up as well. It is clear the NHL & KHL reached an agreement, the current NHL´s steps are a proof.

The KHL proposed this model to fix league´s scheduling. The KHL plays much more games in regular season than any other Euro league. But the KHL had to finish the season, playoffs, before May´s IIHF Worlds. So, the KHL wanted to agree with IIHF on a new dates for IIHF Worlds. In February. It is not a problem for the KHL to pause a season in February if they can prolong the playoffs into May. The proposal was refused, but the IIHF solved that KHL´s issue now the KHL is not under IIHF jurisdiction, so they can play Gagarin Cup in May. That making the IIHF´s position much weaker in case of any future talks on international schedule (with NHL as well).

Current status quo is NOT beneficial for all major European hockey leagues as well. They can not prolong their season due to May´s IIHF Worlds, even if they wanted. So, they can not develop their business. And, the most important. As a result of that Hockey Forum, the Champions Hockey League was started in 2014. That competition plays their games in current international breaks, aka EuroHockeyTour pauses. Earlier Czech clubs complained, now I hear about Swiss clubs complaining. They do not want to release their players for EHT tournaments .... so, the CHL as proclaimed top compeition in Europe is the biggest victime of the current IIHF schedulling. If the IIHF & others agreed on a new model (as 2012 proposal), the Champions Hockey League would be a big winner of that agreement ....

 

[vorky]

You wrote " But 2012 is a lifetime ago at this point."

Agree, it is many years ago ... one would say it is not relevant now what happened then back in 2012. But, it is still relevant! The problems discussed in 2012 has not been solved till today! Moreover, one or two more problem/s (Champions Hockey League & KHL separated from IIHF) have appeared here.