World Cup of Hockey 2028

[joelef]

That’s a dumb method, if mlb does that.

They did it so it would be competitive and non baseball countries could have access to higher level playets

 

[GKJ]

At the 2012 Barcelona Hockey Forum they discussed two issues:

1) European competition (NHL/KHL model vs UEFA CL model)

2) International schedule with Olympics, NHL World Cup & IIHF Worlds. The KHL´s propsosal looked like

year 1 - Olympics
year 2 - IIHF Worlds
year 3 - NHL World Cup
year 4 - IIHF Worlds
year 5 - Olympics
year 6 - IIHF Worlds
year 7 - NHL World Cup
year 8 - IIHF Worlds

The NHL was willing to pause their season in February for Olympcis & NHL World Cup. The KHL as well. The ideal scenario would be if the IIHF Worlds take place in February as well. But, the IIHF & Euros refused that proposal. IIHF´s argument was money, they claim the organisation would lose money with Worlds happening every second year.

Afterwards, in the upcoming years the NHL & KHL discussed the topic, they negotiated about a club tournament/match-up as well. It is clear the NHL & KHL reached an agreement, the current NHL´s steps are a proof.

The KHL proposed this model to fix league´s scheduling. The KHL plays much more games in regular season than any other Euro league. But the KHL had to finish the season, playoffs, before May´s IIHF Worlds. So, the KHL wanted to agree with IIHF on a new dates for IIHF Worlds. In February. It is not a problem for the KHL to pause a season in February if they can prolong the playoffs into May. The proposal was refused, but the IIHF solved that KHL´s issue now the KHL is not under IIHF jurisdiction, so they can play Gagarin Cup in May. That making the IIHF´s position much weaker in case of any future talks on international schedule (with NHL as well).

Current status quo is NOT beneficial for all major European hockey leagues as well. They can not prolong their season due to May´s IIHF Worlds, even if they wanted. So, they can not develop their business. And, the most important. As a result of that Hockey Forum, the Champions Hockey League was started in 2014. That competition plays their games in current international breaks, aka EuroHockeyTour pauses. Earlier Czech clubs complained, now I hear about Swiss clubs complaining. They do not want to release their players for EHT tournaments .... so, the CHL as proclaimed top compeition in Europe is the biggest victime of the current IIHF schedulling. If the IIHF & others agreed on a new model (as 2012 proposal), the Champions Hockey League would be a big winner of that agreement ....

You wrote " But 2012 is a lifetime ago at this point."

Agree, it is many years ago ... one would say it is not relevant now what happened then back in 2012. But, it is still relevant! The problems discussed in 2012 has not been solved till today! Moreover, one or two more problem/s (Champions Hockey League & KHL separated from IIHF) have appeared here.

It is maybe because of that in 2012 that they finally got to this point, which is basically as you have it, just leaving out the Worlds taking place in February on the off-years. Having a best-on-best every year feels like a bit too much really. Also, the NHL doesn’t really have any investment in the Champions Hockey League to listen to that. We know it takes the NHL forever to do anything though.

 

[vorky]

It is maybe because of that in 2012 that they finally got to this point, which is basically as you have it, just leaving out the Worlds taking place in February on the off-years. Having a best-on-best every year feels like a bit too much really. Also, the NHL doesn’t really have any investment in the Champions Hockey League to listen to that. We know it takes the NHL forever to do anything though.

Yeah. I mentioned the Champions Hockey League for a context, That 2012 proposal would be beneficial for the CHL, European leagues (SHL, Liiga etc) as well, not only for KHL (longer season into May) & NHL (having NHL World Cup). But, the conservative organisation like IIHF refused.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Yeah. I mentioned the Champions Hockey League for a context, That 2012 proposal would be beneficial for the CHL, European leagues (SHL, Liiga etc) as well, not only for KHL (longer season into May) & NHL (having NHL World Cup). But, the conservative organisation like IIHF refused.

The IHHF already has the world championships in May, been like that forever.

 

[GKJ]

Yeah. I mentioned the Champions Hockey League for a context, That 2012 proposal would be beneficial for the CHL, European leagues (SHL, Liiga etc) as well, not only for KHL (longer season into May) & NHL (having NHL World Cup). But, the conservative organisation like IIHF refused.

I think IIHF might like the way it is, or the way it would be with Russia, to have the worlds not have as many NHL players so that it keeps other teams more competitive.

 

[Edenjung]

Just my two cents:

Ain't gonna happen.

No european league (I don't count the KHL as european, as it also spans into Asia) would release players so close to the playoffs.
And no, money does not solve this at all.

They do not benefit from this at all. Players are ripped from their teams in the most busy part of the season, can get injured and impact the teams performance a lot. Money cannot offset this at all.
The teams also lose revenue from attendance, which is their biggest money maker. A DEL team for example does not make much money besides that (merch and sponsors are not that much), they don't make much in terms of profit. So every team would need to be compensated significantly. And not only DEL teams. but teams from all leagues. That is a lot of money, because they would not go for scraps. I doubt the NHL would like to fork over 50%+ in revenue to the leagues.

And the teams don't benefit from such a tournament in the long term. If its played in europe they might. But if its in NA, then only hardcore fans will watch. And their regular fans will be alienated because they cannot see their team play during the regular season. So you don't get new fans for the teams and even worse, you might lose some of your existing ones. That is just bad economically and nobody with an ounce of economic knowledge would agree to something like that.

Overall this would be a huge minus for the european leagues, the lose revenue, they might lose players and thus have worse results in the league (lose revenue again, might even be relegated), the schedule gets fcked and so on.

And blaming the IIHF and the european leagues just shows that the view is way to NA centric. You have to put yourself into the shoes of the IIHF and the european leagues. They don't win shit, they only lose if they accept what the NHL wants.

Personally, I would not consent to this. Ice-hockey does not only revolve around the NHL and KHL.

Add to that the fact that the worldchampionship has way bigger relevance for Europe and their leagues and you see again why nobody would do this.
And nobody really cares about the 4 nations tournament. I have not seen anybody talk about or seen media cover it. Maybe in Sweden or Finland.

 

[vorky]

Just my two cents:

Ain't gonna happen.

No european league (I don't count the KHL as european, as it also spans into Asia) would release players so close to the playoffs.
And no, money does not solve this at all.

They do not benefit from this at all. Players are ripped from their teams in the most busy part of the season, can get injured and impact the teams performance a lot. Money cannot offset this at all.
The teams also lose revenue from attendance, which is their biggest money maker. A DEL team for example does not make much money besides that (merch and sponsors are not that much), they don't make much in terms of profit. So every team would need to be compensated significantly. And not only DEL teams. but teams from all leagues. That is a lot of money, because they would not go for scraps. I doubt the NHL would like to fork over 50%+ in revenue to the leagues.

And the teams don't benefit from such a tournament in the long term. If its played in europe they might. But if its in NA, then only hardcore fans will watch. And their regular fans will be alienated because they cannot see their team play during the regular season. So you don't get new fans for the teams and even worse, you might lose some of your existing ones. That is just bad economically and nobody with an ounce of economic knowledge would agree to something like that.

Overall this would be a huge minus for the european leagues, the lose revenue, they might lose players and thus have worse results in the league (lose revenue again, might even be relegated), the schedule gets fcked and so on.

And blaming the IIHF and the european leagues just shows that the view is way to NA centric. You have to put yourself into the shoes of the IIHF and the european leagues. They don't win shit, they only lose if they accept what the NHL wants.

Personally, I would not consent to this. Ice-hockey does not only revolve around the NHL and KHL.

Add to that the fact that the worldchampionship has way bigger relevance for Europe and their leagues and you see again why nobody would do this.
And nobody really cares about the 4 nations tournament. I have not seen anybody talk about or seen media cover it. Maybe in Sweden or Finland.

Thank you for a proof of my words.

You wrote: "You have to put yourself into the shoes of the IIHF and the european leagues." OK, I will do it.

1.The NHL will do its World Cup even if IIHF/Euros disagree. That is just up to the NHL. Euros can not do anything with it.

2.Taking #1 into consideration, Euro leagues (& Champions Hockey League) will be played during the 2028 World Cup. Even worse scenario () for Euros is if euro teams release their players.

3.How will the IIHF Worlds in 2028 be affected by February´s NHL World Cup? I mean NHLers coming to IIHF Worlds, fans interest? You know ...

Yes, it would be the best scenario for IIHF/Euro leagues if no World Cup to be played in February. But, the reality is different. So, my question is ... is it worth if? would not be better to agree on new international schedule?

WHY?

1.European hockey calendar is packed. Leagues play much less games than NHL or KHL, but for example Finns (Liiga) play a bit more games with more flexible schedule. Plus, you have the Champions Hockey League which needs to be played during the EHT breaks - conflict between National Teams & CHL. They had to put CHL game days into EHT breaks, because there is no other option due to IIHF Worlds in May! If we want the CHL to be more prestigous, we need to fix their game days. With status quo, we can not fix it, no dates are available. One solution is to abandon the CHL.

2.What if Liiga, SHL etc wanted to expand their schedule (more regular season games) for ... they can not, no dates available.

3.Yes, IIHF Worlds bring money to all global hockey. Needs to be every year - they say. Perhaps, it is time to consider other model.... I do not know other global sport where the top event (World Championship) is played with players who are free from their league/s. Even FIFA is able to relocate the FIFA World Cup to benefit all (2022 Qatar, 2034 Saudi?). Yes, NHL will not pause every year in February, so problem for February´s IIHF Worlds. Some solution needs to be find.

Conclusion: the IIHF will be forced to rethink their position ... if not, the global (especially european) hockey will suffer.

 

[Tawnos]

I should clear up, the CAN/SWE game did a quarter better than the CAN/USA game did in 2016.

I think they reached a point where if they’re willing to shut down the season for the Olympics, they should be willing to do it when they’re going to benefit more from it in a World Cup, that’s always going to be played in North America. I question though how they intend on having European markets more involved. They did talk about qualifying tournaments, which would probably still have to be in August or September.

I think this is an understated part of all of this. All of the things that the NHL has done to increase revenue give them far more leeway to shut things down for a couple of weeks. The new TV deals, digital board ads, jersey and helmet ads, and yes… sports betting revenue. Yeah, there’s no doubt they still suck at marketing on a league-wide level and could be increasing revenue even more.

On a visceral level, I dislike some of that stuff. But there’s no real doubt that it gives the league some space and flexibility to do stuff like this.

 

[Flukeshot]

As a North American NHL fan, who does enjoy best on best, I have a hard time trusting the NHL and/or the IIHF to give us fans the tournament we all really want to see.

The NHL's World Cups have been poor formats, and are openly focused on revenue more than anything. Anyone paying attention to the 2016 World Cup knows it was a flop, and revenue estimate for it was $110m. This 4-Nations is expected to be less than that. Is it better than an all-star event? Absolutely.

Then if I'm reading the financial reporting correctly, the IIHF basically runs a deficit through a full year (all events).

So the NHL is needed for the $, but the IIHF is needed to secure the players and format to give the legitimacy even North American fans want.

The NHL schedule needs to take priority but the European federations and leagues need to be paid out enough to make it worth them entirely ruining their schedules.

Whay really what is the ideal tournament to everyone? For me I'd love to see at least 12 countries but would be fine if the big 6 or so had byes to the main event in North America with the next 6 to 10 countries playing a quick preliminary round.