WJC 20/21 should be cancelled

[Auston Marlander]

Yeah, what a great option to give them.

Point is the tournament shouldn't be held because it disrupts the european leagues and doesn't provide an even playing field for the nations playing.

It's basically IIHF and Canada fluffing each other while forcing everyone else to be in the room.

Ask the kids how they feel, I can guarantee none of them dont want to play.

Your vendetta is misguided, but no one is forcing you to watch.

 

[GermanNuck]

I think the idea of cancelling the tournament is a bad one, but that Canada v Germany game was simply not entertaining, it was sad. Germany should have forfeited the match. You can't go against Canada with a shortened roster. I would have liked the IIHF to change the format to reduce the number of boring blowouts. Have a top tier of 6 teams, instead of a 10 team tier.

not sure how this elite thinking would develop the sport to be honest. Also let’s be real: Germany was almost down to 50% of its roster, had no rest, no prep, left some valuable players at home due to covid (Goalies, Reichel) or other reasons (Seider).
I think it wouldn’t have been such a blowout under normal circumstances.
2020/21 is not really representative for the tournament as a whole I suppose.

 

[BigBadBoar]

I think the idea of cancelling the tournament is a bad one, but that Canada v Germany game was simply not entertaining, it was sad. Germany should have forfeited the match. You can't go against Canada with a shortened roster. I would have liked the IIHF to change the format to reduce the number of boring blowouts. Have a top tier of 6 teams, instead of a 10 team tier.

No point in reducing the number of participating countries. It would be bad for hockey. You see that in today's NHL you have some very good players from Austria, Denmark, Latvia, France etc. You also have such top stars like Draisaitl (Germany) or Josi (Switzerland). Hockey is developing in "lesser" hockey countries, which is always good for the game. Reducing the number of WJC participating countries would go against this development. Never mind the Germay - Canada game. That barely had anything to do with the actual potential of the team Germany. They played a back-to-back game with just 14 dressed skaters. That is insane, a squad of robocops wouldn't do much better. This was simply a result of exceptional circumstances (COVID-19 and related enhanced health measures), and I suppose we all hope those circusmstances will be over soon.

 

[John Mandalorian]

not sure how this elite thinking would develop the sport to be honest. Also let’s be real: Germany was almost down to 50% of its roster, had no rest, no prep, left some valuable players at home due to covid (Goalies, Reichel) or other reasons (Seider).
I think it wouldn’t have been such a blowout under normal circumstances.
2020/21 is not really representative for the tournament as a whole I suppose.

Germany was in a brutal spot. On one hand their players need playing time and forfeiting might not help them in their later games. But on the other hand, maybe the rest would have been more valuable than the experience of playing in a game like that.

It’s kind of a black eye on the sport and the organizers of this event that teams are put in this position.

Germany has a lot of potential with hockey and in a short period of time they’ve gone from having one excellent player (Draisaitl or Seider) to having three (Stützle, Reichel, and Peterka). But having ugly games like this because teams are put in vulnerable positions doesn’t really help grow the sport.

 

[JackSlater]

I don't know how it works, but there are clubs and players deciding not to take part (like Mo Seider), so how is it a human rights issue? Seems over the top.

Hi Don Cherry. If you don't think it's a shame that these poor Euros are taken to Canada seven teams to a plane like lambs to the slaughter with no chance to avoid 20 goal deficits then ugh I can't even.

 

[majormajor]

They are never ever going to go down to as few as 6 teams. Just isn't going to happen. Going back to 8 could be a conversation though I also don't think the IIHF will ever do that either. There is also a lot of recency bias because certain countries happen to look weak this year so people are acting like there is less parity then there actually is at this tournament. The Swiss finished 4th in 2018 and the Czechs 4th in 2019.

I'm really not that interested in the matchup of the top tier vs the Swiss or the Czechs, so I honestly wouldn't mind if those two clubs had to vie to be the 6th team in the top tier. Not a big loss if only one of them gets to play in the top group each year.

not sure how this elite thinking would develop the sport to be honest. Also let’s be real: Germany was almost down to 50% of its roster, had no rest, no prep, left some valuable players at home due to covid (Goalies, Reichel) or other reasons (Seider).
I think it wouldn’t have been such a blowout under normal circumstances.
2020/21 is not really representative for the tournament as a whole I suppose.

True, but I asked myself if a 4-1 Germany loss in a good year is compelling enough parity, and for me it frankly isn't.

No point in reducing the number of participating countries. It would be bad for hockey. You see that in today's NHL you have some very good players from Austria, Denmark, Latvia, France etc. You also have such top stars like Draisaitl (Germany) or Josi (Switzerland). Hockey is developing in "lesser" hockey countries, which is always good for the game. Reducing the number of WJC participating countries would go against this development. Never mind the Germay - Canada game. That barely had anything to do with the actual potential of the team Germany. They played a back-to-back game with just 14 dressed skaters. That is insane, a squad of robocops wouldn't do much better. This was simply a result of exceptional circumstances (COVID-19 and related enhanced health measures), and I suppose we all hope those circusmstances will be over soon.

Yes I am aware that they have some good players and that it is good for the game to have good players. But they should be playing vs teams that they have a chance against. It is good for the game to have genuine competition. A tough Germany vs Swiss matchup is compelling. I do not enjoy blowouts, you are not going to persuade me that that is good for the game.

 

[Albatros]

No point in reducing the number of participating countries. It would be bad for hockey. You see that in today's NHL you have some very good players from Austria, Denmark, Latvia, France etc. You also have such top stars like Draisaitl (Germany) or Josi (Switzerland). Hockey is developing in "lesser" hockey countries, which is always good for the game. Reducing the number of WJC participating countries would go against this development.

Arguably the golden days of hockey in several of those countries are in the past and won't be coming back. Scouting may have taken a giant leap forward in the internet era, but this should not be mistaken for growth of the sport as a whole.

 

[SotasicA]

It's a human rights issue if you really think about it.

Holy hyperbole. No, it's not.

A player can always say no. You never have to play hockey if you don't want to. Especially in international tournaments. Just tell the manager and coach of the national team that you don't wanna. They won't pick you, guaranteed. It's their job to persuade you. And if they still do pick you against your will because they are assholes, just say you won't come. Nothing nobody can do about it.

If you say you're not interested in international hockey, you are left alone, 100% guaranteed.

 

[JackSlater]

Holy hyperbole. No, it's not.

A player can always say no. You never have to play hockey if you don't want to. Especially in international tournaments. Just tell the manager and coach of the national team that you don't wanna. They won't pick you, guaranteed. It's their job to persuade you. And if they still do pick you against your will because they are assholes, just say you won't come. Nothing nobody can do about it.

If you say you're not interested in international hockey, you are left alone, 100% guaranteed.

Poor European children being flown in cattle planes, ripped from their domestic teams and their families at Christmas time at gunpoint, to face slaughter for the amusement of Canadian fans is very clearly a human rights issue. You must be up there in that ivory tower in Edmonton with the IIHF and Canadian bureaucrats to say otherwise.

 

[Northerner]

If there is an argument against having the tournament, yesterday's 16-2 horror show would be it.


But I think the show must go on. I get sick of people wanting to cancel everything.


Regarding the tournament, why not televize the relegated tournament - keeping it separate, as it were?

 

[GermanNuck]

I'm really not that interested in the matchup of the top tier vs the Swiss or the Czechs, so I honestly wouldn't mind if those two clubs had to vie to be the 6th team in the top tier. Not a big loss if only one of them gets to play in the top group each year.



True, but I asked myself if a 4-1 Germany loss in a good year is compelling enough parity, and for me it frankly isn't.

I don’t know if we should make the world of hockey smaller than it already is.

Look at other sports, football has 24 participants in U20, basketball, baseball, which are both more comparable to hockey, both have at least 12.

Especially junior tournaments are not there for entertainment purposes only but to develop talent. I think all of us “smaller hockey nation” fans would appreciate not being shoved into lower tiers since the gap between the likes of Switzerland or Germany and Italy or the UK is probably even bigger.

 

[John Mandalorian]

I don’t know if we should make the world of hockey smaller than it already is.

Look at other sports, football has 24 participants in U20, basketball, baseball, which are both more comparable to hockey, both have at least 12.

Especially junior tournaments are not there for entertainment purposes only but to develop talent. I think all of us “smaller hockey nation” fans would appreciate not being shoved into lower tiers since the gap between the likes of Switzerland or Germany and Italy or the UK is probably even bigger.

What do you think of Germany allowing players on their team who grew up in other countries but have German ancestry? They could then poach players of German ancestry that weren’t selected for Teams Canada or USA?

This is done in other sports.

 

[GermanNuck]

What do you think of Germany allowing players on their team who grew up in other countries but have German ancestry? They could then poach players of German ancestry that weren’t selected for Teams Canada or USA?

This is done in other sports.

answered your question in the “Germany Roster” thread

 

[Rabid Ranger]

What do you think of Germany allowing players on their team who grew up in other countries but have German ancestry? They could then poach players of German ancestry that weren’t selected for Teams Canada or USA?

This is done in other sports.

Sure, if they meet the IIHF rules on eligibility: IIHF - Eligibility

 

[John Mandalorian]

Sure, if they meet the IIHF rules on eligibility: IIHF - Eligibility

The rules are much more strict for hockey than other sports. That’s pretty self serving for Canada.

 

[majormajor]

I don’t know if we should make the world of hockey smaller than it already is.

Look at other sports, football has 24 participants in U20, basketball, baseball, which are both more comparable to hockey, both have at least 12.

Especially junior tournaments are not there for entertainment purposes only but to develop talent. I think all of us “smaller hockey nation” fans would appreciate not being shoved into lower tiers since the gap between the likes of Switzerland or Germany and Italy or the UK is probably even bigger.

I don't think it makes the world of hockey smaller. I'd be much more interested in watching a Germany vs Austria matchup, that wouldn't be "not in the world of hockey". I would actually expect it to develop talent better than being in a lopsided matchup where you don't have the puck. The whole point is to have tiers where the teams are on even footing, so you wouldn't put Germany in with Italy and UK. It would be some combination of Czech, Slovak, Swiss, German, Austrian, Danish, Latvian, maybe Norwegian or French if they have a good year. The top team from that group plays in the top tier, the middle six is the second tier.

 

[GermanNuck]

I think we agree to disagree then

 

[Rabid Ranger]

The rules are much more strict for hockey than other sports. That’s pretty self serving for Canada.

I don't know if I would look at it that way but it does restrict the number of Canadians who are dual-citizens that can compete for other countries.

 

[John Mandalorian]

I don't know if I would look at it that way but it does restrict the number of Canadians who are dual-citizens that can compete for other countries.

I brought up Anthony Rizzo as an example before. He’s never lived in Italy so I can only assume he doesn’t have dual citizenship. In fact the googled article I read said it was due to having Italian ancestry. This was for the World Baseball Classic.

I think it’s both convenient and strange that hockey’s rules on this are so much more restrictive. I mean, it seems apparent that Canada has a lot of influence with the IIHF and are using influence to prevent their players from being poached. Keep in mind that over the years there has been a ton of discussion regarding of the politics behind the selection of Canada’s national team. If they want to be like this, fine. But the players on the outside looking in should have another opportunity to play for a country of which they have ancestral history. Doing it this way is a bad look for the powers that be in Canada.

And with this happening any mention of growing the sport is talking out the other side of the mouth.

 

[Albatros]

But the players on the outside looking in should have another opportunity to play for a country of which they have ancestral history.

Good for them personally surely, but is that any good for the bigger picture? Theoretically you could have a federation without a junior program like Portugal field a team led by NHL-level talent and compete at a higher level than many smaller hockey countries that do their best investing in player development with the limited resources they have.

 

[John Mandalorian]

Good for them personally surely, but is that any good for the bigger picture? Theoretically you could have a federation without a junior program like Portugal field a team led by NHL-level talent and compete at a higher level than many smaller hockey countries that do their best investing in player development with the limited resources they have.

It’s not as if there’s not somewhere in the middle. You could restrict the number of players to 5 for example. This would accommodate opportunity but also create a sufficient burden for Portugal to come up with the rest of a roster.

Honestly, if Germany wants to only have players born/living in Germany, I respect that. But I think that should be up to Germany and not because Canada uses its influence on the IIHF (and to a lesser degree the US) to hoard players.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

I brought up Anthony Rizzo as an example before. He’s never lived in Italy so I can only assume he doesn’t have dual citizenship. In fact the googled article I read said it was due to having Italian ancestry. This was for the World Baseball Classic.

I think it’s both convenient and strange that hockey’s rules on this are so much more restrictive. I mean, it seems apparent that Canada has a lot of influence with the IIHF and are using influence to prevent their players from being poached. Keep in mind that over the years there has been a ton of discussion regarding of the politics behind the selection of Canada’s national team. If they want to be like this, fine. But the players on the outside looking in should have another opportunity to play for a country of which they have ancestral history. Doing it this way is a bad look for the powers that be in Canada.

And with this happening any mention of growing the sport is talking out the other side of the mouth.

I don't really see Canada benefitting all that much to be honest. Hockey isn't like soccer where the allure of representing one's ancestral homeland often trumps birthplace/citizenship. The vast majority of Canadian kids want to represent Canada. The number of eligible duals that Canada loses out on and that would actually be strongly considered for their team is small.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

It’s not as if there’s not somewhere in the middle. You could restrict the number of players to 5 for example. This would accommodate opportunity but also create a sufficient burden for Portugal to come up with the rest of a roster.

Honestly, if Germany wants to only have players born/living in Germany, I respect that. But I think that should be up to Germany and not because Canada uses its influence on the IIHF (and to a lesser degree the US) to hoard players.

I think we're losing track of the issue here. Having a strong pipeline for homegrown players is essential to a country growing and being able to compete on the world stage. Germany has made a lot of progress. That said, what has happened to them thus far in this particular event is more of a result of extenuating circumstances rather than roster building or filling.

 

[John Mandalorian]

I don't really see Canada benefitting all that much to be honest. Hockey isn't like soccer where the allure of representing one's ancestral homeland often trumps birthplace/citizenship. The vast majority of Canadian kids want to represent Canada. The number of eligible duals that Canada loses out on and that would actually be strongly considered for their team is small.

I think we’re talking about different things. You keep mentioning dual citizenship and I’m saying other sports don’t even require that. And making this a restriction gives the powers that be in team Canada the opportunity to practice politics in selecting their national treat without fear of consequences. And the people on the losing end if this are the players who should have been on team Canada but weren’t because of politics.

It might be a former Red Wings player who has a vendetta against the Avalanche who’s involved in selecting players. Or it might be a favor to an agent. Or whatever.

Do you see why I say this is self serving for Team Canada?

If the powers that be want to choose a lesser player as a favor to an agent or because the better player is with the Avs organization, fine. But there should be a hedge. And that hedge should be allowing freedom of movement for players not selected by Team Canada.

I think that asserting ownership over players by arbitrarily drawing the line between citizen ship and ancestral heritage is arbitrary and unfair.

 

[ORRFForever]

It is quite a shame that European leagues are mandated at gunpoint to release their players to the WJC. It's a human rights issue if you really think about it. Something should be done about this, but long-time best friends Hockey Canada and the IIHF have vast powers.

Such a clever poster.