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Prospect Info: With the 9th Overall Pick the New York Rangers Select Vitali Kravtsov

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offdacrossbar said:
stay and play for traktor.

play alot, get stronger, grab some valuable prime time minutes, and then head over here next summer to make the team in 2019 camp.

i dont see a problem with that plan at all.
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Dont know how many times it has to be said that he WONT get prime minutes.

I dont object to him staying, but lets not believe he will get 19 minutes a game and top PP time. He got promoted from the 4th to the 3rd line in the playoffs for dominating. He will likely get 13 minutes next seaon with 2nd PP time hopefully
 
The main reason I would want Krav over here is, remember all the issues with conditioning and strength Buchnevich had his first year in NA?

If we bring Krav over, the team can pay close attention to his conditioning and strength training, get him with Prentiss nice and early.
 
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offdacrossbar said:
stay and play for traktor.

play alot, get stronger, grab some valuable prime time minutes, and then head over here next summer to make the team in 2019 camp.

i dont see a problem with that plan at all.
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Also there is a quote in one of Larry's latest articles that the training over in Russia may not be the best. AV alluded to it last year with Buch and his back injury was a result of 'Russian Training' and then teh quote from Brooks was what Buch hadn't seen a weight room before he got over to America....

“His body has to catch up to him,” Clark said of Kravtsov, who played the left side in the scrimmage after having played most of the year on the right. “But that’s the way it is with just about every Russian who comes over. Take [Pavel Buchnevich], for instance. When he came, he’d never seen a weight room. But after a year here, he bought in and spent [last] summer training.”
 
The Crypto Guy said:
Dont know how many times it has to be said that he WONT get prime minutes.

I dont object to him staying, but lets not believe he will get 19 minutes a game and top PP time. He got promoted from the 4th to the 3rd line in the playoffs for dominating. He will likely get 13 minutes next seaon with 2nd PP time hopefully
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hes a kid. things dont for that way there. we know that. they play vets more.

when i say prime minutes i mean pp time and a reg 5v5 shift. hell get that. he will play 13-15 min per game min and get pp time playing against men in the 2nd best league in the world.

hes a talent, hell play. let him stay there and marinate for a yr. won't hurt. coming here to ride buses to shit hole towns isnt attractive nor is it a better development plan.

hell be fine there.
 
offdacrossbar said:
hes a kid. things dont for that way there. we know that. they play vets more.

when i say prime minutes i mean pp time and a reg 5v5 shift. hell get that. he will play 13-15 min per game min and get pp time playing against men in the 2nd best league in the world.

hes a talent, hell play. let him stay there and marinate for a yr. won't hurt. coming here to ride buses to **** hole towns isnt attractive nor is it a better development plan.

hell be fine there.
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Ah gotcha. Yea i’m with you dont get me wrong. Another year there definitely would be beneficial. If he were going to be stuck playing 8-9 minutes on the 4th line then i would be doing whatever we could to get him over but that wont be the case.
 
Edge said:
I think it generally refers to players whose odds are probably a lot more iffy than the guys you view as being likely stars, and aren't likely to reinvent themselves in other roles.
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Then i wonder if it's actually true, specifically the reinvention part. I'd bet a lot of them do carve out a niche anywhere in between 4th liner to star player

Usually it seems like the reason why they're so iffy to project is bc of massive talent or athletic ability without a lot of experience or all around coaching (leaving them very raw). At least to me that's what it seems like
 
Amazing Kreiderman said:
I think the biggest argument against Russians coming over at a young age is that there's a great alternative in Russia with the VHL/KHL structure.
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Some Russian prospects for whatever reasons don't get enough opportunities / exposure homeside, so for them CHL becomes a proper alternative place to get that exposure pre-draft because of it. This is not Kravtsov's case.

If we are talking AHL vs VHL/KHL then everything else being equal (and also moving off-ice adaptation issues I mentioned before to the side) I'd rather prospects continue to work on their skills on a larger ice with more time/space to execute. IMHO smaller ice surface pushes prospects into sort of a survival mode that forces them into making simplified, straight-line plays instead of something more creative. For younger prospects I'd rather have them continuing to improve their high-level skills and leave adaption to smaller ice until later.
 
Pavel Buchnevich said:
So the numbers are just a big coincidence?

Nobody said some Russian players don't bust in Russia. The point is that the percentages drastically favor Russian players developing in the KHL, and we'd be stupid to go against the grain here with a 9th overall pick.
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There's nothing to show that coming over is specifically what caused people to become busts. It could also be the culture and coaching surrounding Russian hockey leaves massive gaps in certain areas of a Russian players game/work ethic/off ice habits which makes it that much harder for them to get things together if they come to NA too early.

So the problem may be more of an inferior program in Russia that gimps these kids, like with buch and the weight room thing which I still have a hard time believing bc it sounds so whacked. High schools, even among the worst programs, have regular weight room time for all the various sports teams, but SKA didn't?
 
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NYR Viper said:
Based on the fact that the Rangers had very good success with Chytil and Andersson last year, I would assume they want him in the AHL. Let him go play ion the WJC in the middle of the season
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I would assume his KHL team would allow him to leave for 3 weeks to join the WJC20
 
shinchanuuhh said:
There's nothing to show that coming over is specifically what caused people to become busts. It could also be the culture and coaching surrounding Russian hockey leaves massive gaps in certain areas of a Russian players game/work ethic/off ice habits which makes it that much harder for them to get things together if they come to NA too early.

So the problem may be more of an inferior program in Russia that gimps these kids, like with buch and the weight room thing which I still have a hard time believing bc it sounds so whacked. High schools, even among the worst programs, have regular weight room time for all the various sports teams, but SKA didn't?
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You are ignoring the big success that has been had from those who develop in Russia. Are you going to suggest Ovechkin, Kovalchuk, Malkin, Tarasenko, Kuznetsov, Panarin, Buchnevich isn't overwhelming compared to Radulov, Anisimov and partially Kucherov? You could even say one of the best Russian forwards in the NHL right now, Dadonov, developed terribly in North America, didn't stick in the NHL, had to go back to Russia to refine his game, and then came back considerably better. Why is that?
 
Pavel Buchnevich said:
You are ignoring the big success that has been had from those who develop in Russia. Are you going to suggest Ovechkin, Kovalchuk, Malkin, Tarasenko, Kuznetsov, Panarin, Buchnevich isn't overwhelming compared to Radulov, Anisimov and partially Kucherov? You could even say one of the best Russian forwards in the NHL right now, Dadonov, developed terribly in North America, didn't stick in the NHL, had to go back to Russia to refine his game, and then came back considerably better. Why is that?
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Or that Nichushkin had to go back to KHL because he couldn't stick with Dallas and their FO decided that KHL was better for him than time in AHL.
 
offdacrossbar said:
hes a kid. things dont for that way there. we know that. they play vets more.

when i say prime minutes i mean pp time and a reg 5v5 shift. hell get that. he will play 13-15 min per game min and get pp time playing against men in the 2nd best league in the world.

hes a talent, hell play. let him stay there and marinate for a yr. won't hurt. coming here to ride buses to **** hole towns isnt attractive nor is it a better development plan.

hell be fine there.
Click to expand...

Attractive, no, but better? It might be.

I'm not against letting him go back but being able to have a watchful eye over his development could also be very valuable. Our management would control where he plays, give him a rest if he needs one, monitor his off ice training, etc. This isn't like sending the kid to the CHL.

It won't happen, but I wish he would stay stateside this summer and work out with a few of the other guys at Prentiss.
 
Go Away Staal said:
Didn't he leave for the KHL because he hated Ruff?

He had a very strong rookie season. He wasn't the same after having major hip surgery.
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My point was that their organization chose KHL over AHL for Nichushkin. Pretty apparent that they viewed Russia as a better option for a skilled forward
 
I doubt he is NHL ready this year training camp, but he should play with our farm team for sure to get used to small ice, US culture, and a new language, and get him 10 NHL games end of this season. :)
 
Pavel Buchnevich said:
You are ignoring the big success that has been had from those who develop in Russia. Are you going to suggest Ovechkin, Kovalchuk, Malkin, Tarasenko, Kuznetsov, Panarin, Buchnevich isn't overwhelming compared to Radulov, Anisimov and partially Kucherov? You could even say one of the best Russian forwards in the NHL right now, Dadonov, developed terribly in North America, didn't stick in the NHL, had to go back to Russia to refine his game, and then came back considerably better. Why is that?
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I didn't ignore that at all. You misunderstood.

I'm saying that they are gimped when they come here too early in terms of body development, language and off-ice habits bc of inequities in the programs over in Russia (Possibly).

When you're a more grown adult with more ice hockey experience in the pros it may help make up for those deficiencies. Point being there is only some circumstantial proof that simply coming to America is a magic curse that dooms young Russians. There is also some evidence that certain holes in programs in Russia could help make the adjustment way too difficult for younger players.

Also i would say a sample size of 7 compared to 3 is not overwhelming. Especially because you aren't comparing apples to apples. Malkin, Ovie, Kovie in a 1 to 1 comparison to guys like anisimov would be a completely false comparison at any age in any country.
 
shinchanuuhh said:
There's nothing to show that coming over is specifically what caused people to become busts. It could also be the culture and coaching surrounding Russian hockey leaves massive gaps in certain areas of a Russian players game/work ethic/off ice habits which makes it that much harder for them to get things together if they come to NA too early.

So the problem may be more of an inferior program in Russia that gimps these kids, like with buch and the weight room thing which I still have a hard time believing bc it sounds so whacked. High schools, even among the worst programs, have regular weight room time for all the various sports teams, but SKA didn't?
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Neither program is inferior. The issue stems from differences in conditions.

It's easy to understand if you put the shoe on the other foot.
The Russian system is renowned for producing world-class finesse forwards, many are the best of all time. However in no parallel universe would I advise a highly skilled American to develop in Russia, even if he plays a 'Russian style' of game.
What % of Americans kids would develop properly if they were dropped in the middle of Chelyabinsk at age 15-19, having to deal with a completely different atmosphere, language, life culture, hockey culture, training regiment, etc? Probably not many either.

Unlike it is for Western European countries, the differences between Russia and North America is ridiculously drastic. The transition is more often than not too much to handle for a kid so young.
 
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Zine said:
Neither program is inferior. The issue stems from differences in conditions.

It's easy to understand if you put the shoe on the other foot.
The Russian system is renowned for producing world-class finesse forwards, but in no parallel universe would I advise a highly skilled American to develop in Russia.
What % of Americans kids would develop properly if they were dropped in the middle of Chelyabinsk at age 15-19, having to deal with a completely different atmosphere, language, life culture, hockey culture, training regiment, etc? Probably not many either.

Unlike players from more Western European countries, transition between Russia and North America is ridiculously drastic.
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One program is going to be overall better than another.

I definitely already acknowledged potential problems a young kid may have with adjusting to a completely different language and culture.

That said, are swedes having the same difficulties? Czech's? I don't hear this same discussion applied to any other kids from anywhere else the same way I hear it with Russian kids. There's a reason for the "russian factor".

To be clear, it's a term that has been lazily used, often under false pretenses by a lot of ignorant talking heads. Even though a lot of analysts misused the term that does not mean that it's a term without merit. If you want to say that there's just some magic reason for Russian kids struggling for no other reason then they came to NA, I would want to know why this same thing isn't happening for others. I'd certainly want a much bigger sample size and I'd want an accounting of all the factors that could be at play including apparently professional hockey programs that don't even coach weight room habits into their young athletes
 
shinchanuuhh said:
One program is going to be overall better than another.

I definitely already acknowledged potential problems a young kid may have with adjusting to a completely different language and culture.

That said, are swedes having the same difficulties? Czech's? I don't hear this same discussion applied to any other kids from anywhere else the same way I hear it with Russian kids. There's a reason for the "russian factor".

To be clear, it's a term that has been lazily used, often under false pretenses by a lot of ignorant talking heads. Even though a lot of analysts misused the term that does not mean that it's a term without merit.
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I already made it clear why the transition for Swedes, Finns and Czechs is easier. Their cultures are FAR more similar to North America than that of Russia, particularly the Scandinavian countries.

This isn't rocket science. A Swede would initially find himself far more at home in America than a Russian would. By that same token, an American kid would find it much easier to transition to a Western European league than Russia.
 
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Zine said:
I already made it clear why the transition for Swedes, Finns and Czech is easier. Their cultures are FAR more similar to North America than Russia's, particularity the Scandinavian countries.

This isn't rocket science. By that same token, an American kid would find it much easier to transition to Sweden's league than Russia's.
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You still failed to address the potential that the KHL gimps young athletes in a multitude of ways which makes it even MORE difficult for them to transition over then it does for European kids.

You should also calm down lol "This isn't rocket science". That's a very stupid comment. We're talking about entire differences in
social culture
hockey culture
in training
coaching
ice time division
language
kids with entirely different skill levels
kids with different behaviors and personalities.

Yea, sorry but I don't just blindly subscribe to the idea that it's "Only about western culture". I tend to try to think critically about issues. If that's not for you, please find somewhere else to make excuses. Can't think of the kid who died in the CHL because of the under-equipped, inferior facilities and the medical staff missing a massive heart issue. But sure,tell me more about how it's only a "western culture acclimation" issue and nothing else
 
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