With the 14th overall selection in the 2023 NHL Entry Draft, the Pittsburgh Penguins select…

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I will say that I agree with Gretz that even if they don't move the 14th out for another player, it might be best to trade down for more picks. If you're not getting players who are going to help right away, then in a good draft, you could still pick up a similar caliber prospect later in the first round, and then end up having additional picks as well. Even better if they find a way to end up in both the first and second rounds at this point.

They might even be able to then parlay the additional pick into an NHL player, while still having a first (albeit a later one).

This makes sense, too.

I just don't see a reason to be adamant about taking the pick at 14 no matter what. It's just not in "difference maker" territory. And I know this is a dead horse by now but this is exactly why I was astounded at the amount of Penguins fans who shrugged and said they were happy they missed the playoffs. Why.... so the year was a TOTAL loss? Cool.

 

[Jobeycool]

The hockey writers mock draft have Pens taking Samuel Honzek, That guys skating reminds me way to much like Jordan Staal who gets those mud skating nights and cannot finish very well at the NHL level. Both those 2 defensemen may be gone by the time the Pens pick.... Gabriel Perreault or Nate Danielson..

 

[The Old Master]

they were happy they missed the playoffs. Why.... so the year was a TOTAL loss? Cool.

no, we got rid of the gm and maybe the coach too.

 

[Jacob]

I forget his account name but a guy on YouTube that sounds a lot like luimarco does a ton of highlight and shift montages of prospects with commentary and he did a mock and had us taking Oliver Moore which also would be fine to me. Dude can fly, maybe the best wheels of anyone ranked in the 1st.

 

[MrBurghundy]

This makes sense, too.

I just don't see a reason to be adamant about taking the pick at 14 no matter what. It's just not in "difference maker" territory. And I know this is a dead horse by now but this is exactly why I was astounded at the amount of Penguins fans who shrugged and said they were happy they missed the playoffs. Why.... so the year was a TOTAL loss? Cool.

I think the fear was more of the fact that the status quo would've remained the same in the front office if they made the playoffs. At least for myself personally. Hextall needed to go, and I'm not sure they pull the trigger if the team makes it in.

 

[Ryder71]

This makes sense, too.

I just don't see a reason to be adamant about taking the pick at 14 no matter what. It's just not in "difference maker" territory. And I know this is a dead horse by now but this is exactly why I was astounded at the amount of Penguins fans who shrugged and said they were happy they missed the playoffs. Why.... so the year was a TOTAL loss? Cool.

I'd still like someone to tell me why we should have any hope for a team that hasn't made it out of the first round since 2018? Go ahead I'll wait. Why do some of us want this team to do a rebuild? Because clearly the current Formula hasn't worked for half a decade now, that's why. You don't need to keep asking the same question I have the answer for you. Because this team in its current Incarnation isn't going to do anything that's why. There's no ambiguity here okay, none! Again here's the answer for all you people out there, pay close attention. This team hasn't done a damn thing in 5 years. And our stars are only getting older. We have the same head coach. What more reasons can you possibly need? You keep the pick and start building through the draft. And hope we get it right. But you're not going to resurrect this team into greatness, their time has passed. Let go!

 

[Ryder71]

I think the fear was more of the fact that the status quo would've remained the same in the front office if they made the playoffs. At least for myself personally. Hextall needed to go, and I'm not sure they pull the trigger if the team makes it in.

Hextall did need to go, but so do our dinosaurs, so does our head coach. Since those two variables aren't likely to change might as well try to rebuild and become a competitive team in 2028. You're not winning with Crosby anymore, turn out the lights and start the bus! There's not a tweak here or tweak there that will change this. We should just burn it down to the mother f-ing ground. I'm happy we pick 14th overall, f****** covelling over this pick! It's the only good thing about the organization currently. I just hope they don't blow it. Got to start somewhere. Next year will probably pick in the top 10, the year after that who knows maybe top five. This is the first piece to the new era of the Pittsburgh penguins. But for the next four or five maybe even 6 years its going to be bleak. You must accept it, you must accept it! It's inevitable!

 

[Gurglesons]

I'd still like someone to tell me why we should have any hope for a team that hasn't made it out of the first round since 2018? Go ahead I'll wait. Why do some of us want this team to do a rebuild? Because clearly the current Formula hasn't worked for half a decade now, that's why. You don't need to keep asking the same question I have the answer for you. Because this team in its current Incarnation isn't going to do anything that's why. There's no ambiguity here okay, none! Again here's the answer for all you people out there, pay close attention. This team hasn't done a damn thing in 5 years. And our stars are only getting older. We have the same head coach. What more reasons can you possibly need? You keep the pick and start building through the draft. And hope we get it right. But you're not going to resurrect this team into greatness, their time has passed. Let go!

Nobody at 14 is turning into anything but another trade asset in 3-5 years when we actually blow up the team.

 

[Freeptop]

I'd still like someone to tell me why we should have any hope for a team that hasn't made it out of the first round since 2018? Go ahead I'll wait. Why do some of us want this team to do a rebuild? Because clearly the current Formula hasn't worked for half a decade now, that's why. You don't need to keep asking the same question I have the answer for you. Because this team in its current Incarnation isn't going to do anything that's why. There's no ambiguity here okay, none! Again here's the answer for all you people out there, pay close attention. This team hasn't done a damn thing in 5 years. And our stars are only getting older. We have the same head coach. What more reasons can you possibly need? You keep the pick and start building through the draft. And hope we get it right. But you're not going to resurrect this team into greatness, their time has passed. Let go!

Getting into the playoffs, even as a longshot, is still more fun than watching a losing season. (Ask any Pirates fan).

Winning the Cup is hard. There are no guarantees. Despite the talent the Pens have had, Lemieux only won twice as a player, and it's extraordinary that the Crosby has won 3. Between Lemieux's last Cup and Crosby's first, were 19 years/18 seasons, of which the Pens only missed the playoffs in four of those intervening seasons.

Even winning a single playoff series can involve a fair amount of random luck - between inconsistent officiating, the general chaos of the game itself, and the criticality of the goaltending position (and how volatile goalies can be in general), the "better" team frequently doesn't win.

Now, let's look at the alternative - rebuilding carries no guarantees. Look at the Red Wings, Sabres or Coyotes, and try to tell me that rebuilding is necessarily going to make things better any time soon. Even the Penguins failed to make the playoffs for Lemieux's first four seasons. And then they missed again in 1990! And that's not even counting the pre-Lemieux years. And that's with a can't-miss pick like Lemieux. And even high picks are no guarantee of getting productive players - Yakupov was the consensus number 1 overall pick, after all.

So, even with a generational talent, there's no guarantee, high draft picks are no guarantee, and the Pens are not going to be in a position to draft at the top of the draft just yet.

So, yes, I'd rather wallow around in first and maybe second round exits for a bit longer, rather than go through an extended period of missing the playoffs entirely. There's a lot more hope when you make the playoffs than when you don't.

 

[Freeptop]

As a small aside, I'll just note that we've been really, really spoiled as Pens fans for the last 39 years: since drafting Mario, the Pens have only missed the playoffs 10 times, total (1985, 1986, 1987, 1988, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2006, 2023). They've won the Cup 5 times in that time frame.

For that matter, they've won at least one round of the playoffs 17 times in that same timeframe - they've literally made it out of the first round more times than they've missed the playoffs since drafting Lemieux in 1984.

 

[KareemTrustfund]

That’s kind of where I’m at with it. We could spend the next seven plus years rebuilding and the most likely outcome is we just get back to where we are now. And that’s if we’re lucky. If you were to tell me your team has two above PPG centres and you’re thinking about a full fledged rebuild my first inclination would be that’s crazy. No other team currently has that and I’m sure they’d kill for it.

Losing isn’t fun. We’ve been good for so long that it seems like a fun new adventure to get young talent and be right back in it. It rarely works that well. We had the golden ticket of all rebuilds last time.

I’m not super eager with Sully behind the bench but I’m also not super eager to run straight into the abyss with the notion in five years we’re going to have a young stud high flying team ready for the playoffs again. There will be time enough for that fantasy when Sid and Geno hang it up. For now, I’d rather at least try to win.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Just for clarification, when I say keep the pick, I don't expect a world beater. But hopefully this team can find a worthwhile player to help fill out the roster with quality depth down the line. The 14th very likely isn't gonna land you a high impact guy, whether you trade it or you use the pick yourself. Like BlindWilly's said, it's in that shitty no man's land. It's not a high enough pick to have decent odds of landing a stud, and being that it's not a high pick, it also doesn't carry the value as a trade asset to land a significant player for the here and now either imo. /shrug

I would rather roll the dice that they luck into a solid player via draft as opposed to trading the pick for some dork like Garland. Cuz that's probably the caliber of player you're looking at if you shop the pick.

 

[Ryder71]

Getting into the playoffs, even as a longshot, is still more fun than watching a losing season. (Ask any Pirates fan).

Winning the Cup is hard. There are no guarantees. Despite the talent the Pens have had, Lemieux only won twice as a player, and it's extraordinary that the Crosby has won 3. Between Lemieux's last Cup and Crosby's first, were 19 years/18 seasons, of which the Pens only missed the playoffs in four of those intervening seasons.

Even winning a single playoff series can involve a fair amount of random luck - between inconsistent officiating, the general chaos of the game itself, and the criticality of the goaltending position (and how volatile goalies can be in general), the "better" team frequently doesn't win.

Now, let's look at the alternative - rebuilding carries no guarantees. Look at the Red Wings, Sabres or Coyotes, and try to tell me that rebuilding is necessarily going to make things better any time soon. Even the Penguins failed to make the playoffs for Lemieux's first four seasons. And then they missed again in 1990! And that's not even counting the pre-Lemieux years. And that's with a can't-miss pick like Lemieux. And even high picks are no guarantee of getting productive players - Yakupov was the consensus number 1 overall pick, after all.

So, even with a generational talent, there's no guarantee, high draft picks are no guarantee, and the Pens are not going to be in a position to draft at the top of the draft just yet.

So, yes, I'd rather wallow around in first and maybe second round exits for a bit longer, rather than go through an extended period of missing the playoffs entirely. There's a lot more hope when you make the playoffs than when you don't.

our core is a year older, we have the same coach, and we missed the playoffs by losing to two of the worst three teams in the league at crunch time. So you tell me what is going to change and why we will make the playoffs next year? Because I think we're going to be even worse. Our core aren't going to be playing 82 games next year. It only happened once since they've been here, you can't expect that to happen again. And over the years as great as they once were the quality of their play is dropping off.

 

[Ryder71]

Nobody at 14 is turning into anything but another trade asset in 3-5 years when we actually blow up the team.

Strongly disagree, this could be the first piece to the next chapter. Maybe not the a great piece, certainly not the best piece but a piece nonetheless. We just got to hit on this pick. As far as blowing up the team, that may not happen, but the quality of the product on the ice will continue to dwindle. And there's nothing that Sid or Geno or Letang can do about it. Last year was not a one-off whereby we missed the playoffs, this is what will be for quite some time now. It's not going to get any better anytime soon. Barring some magical trade or series of Trades, or some Guru who can completely transform this team, it's not going to happen. If we didn't make the playoffs this season why the hell would you expect us to make it next season when our players are a year older and we still have the same head coach? I thought once you realize that Sullivan was retained you were going to have a serious problem with that. Well guess what he ain't going anywhere!

 

[Freeptop]

our core is a year older, we have the same coach, and we missed the playoffs by losing to two of the worst three teams in the league at crunch time. So you tell me what is going to change and why we will make the playoffs next year? Because I think we're going to be even worse. Our core aren't going to be playing 82 games next year. It only happened once since they've been here, you can't expect that to happen again. And over the years as great as they once were the quality of their play is dropping off.

We're going to have a new GM, so roster construction, at the very least, is going to change. Neither Crosby nor Malkin appear to be falling off a cliff, so even if they aren't as productive for being a year older, they're still quite productive. Letang is perhaps the most worrisome, but even with everything he went through this past season, he was still one of the most reliable performers on the blueline for them.

This assumption that we're stuck with Sullivan in perpetuity is also rather odd, given that we're only in year two of new ownership, and we're going to have a new GM. Given how quickly Sullivan would get picked up by another team, and thus, terminate the rest of his contract, the financial issue of having already extended him shouldn't be a big factor, either.
(I know how Sullivan is viewed on these boards, but he is not viewed the same way in the rest of the hockey world. As one of only two coaches to win back-to-back Cups in the Salary Cap era, he'd get picked up pretty quick by plenty of teams).

Why do you think that tearing it down now will make anything better? Are you planning on trading Crosby and Malkin as well? Because they aren't truly getting to the top of the draft with them still on the roster.

Oh, and there isn't another generational talent that's going to be available in the draft in the next few years, so if the Pens went full rebuild and traded away the core, the Pens just become Columbus or Buffalo, only at the beginning of their current rebuild periods, and not what they are now.

 

[Ryder71]

We're going to have a new GM, so roster construction, at the very least, is going to change. Neither Crosby nor Malkin appear to be falling off a cliff, so even if they aren't as productive for being a year older, they're still quite productive. Letang is perhaps the most worrisome, but even with everything he went through this past season, he was still one of the most reliable performers on the blueline for them.

This assumption that we're stuck with Sullivan in perpetuity is also rather odd, given that we're only in year two of new ownership, and we're going to have a new GM. Given how quickly Sullivan would get picked up by another team, and thus, terminate the rest of his contract, the financial issue of having already extended him shouldn't be a big factor, either.
(I know how Sullivan is viewed on these boards, but he is not viewed the same way in the rest of the hockey world. As one of only two coaches to win back-to-back Cups in the Salary Cap era, he'd get picked up pretty quick by plenty of teams).

Why do you think that tearing it down now will make anything better? Are you planning on trading Crosby and Malkin as well? Because they aren't truly getting to the top of the draft with them still on the roster.

Oh, and there isn't another generational talent that's going to be available in the draft in the next few years, so if the Pens went full rebuild and traded away the core, the Pens just become Columbus or Buffalo, only at the beginning of their current rebuild periods, and not what they are now.

I don't necessarily expect a generational talent. But if you consistently draft in the top 10 which we will be doing you're going to get three or four really good players if you're bad for long enough. If you want to hold on to the relics we employ now it's just going to be more of the same. As far as Sullivan you do know that FSG really really likes him right? You understand that he has friends near the top of that organization right? And I can tell you this you can expect him to have a hand in who they hire as general manager. So this notion that he might be gone anytime soon I think is just wishful thinking. Sullivan will be here for quite some time. I'd love to be wrong about that but ...

 

[3ladesof5teel]

I don't necessarily expect a generational talent. But if you consistently draft in the top 10 which we will be doing you're going to get three or four really good players if you're bad for long enough. If you want to hold on to the relics we employ now it's just going to be more of the same. As far as Sullivan you do know that FSG really really likes him right? You understand that he has friends near the top of that organization right? And I can tell you this you can expect him to have a hand in who they hire as general manager. So this notion that he might be gone anytime soon I think is just wishful thinking. Sullivan will be here for quite some time. I'd love to be wrong about that but ...

Sure ask Edmonton about that one with 1st OA.

I don't think you understand how cool rebuilds can be.

There's no guarantee about anything. That's why If you have a team to build around you go all in while it's there

 

[Gurglesons]

I don't necessarily expect a generational talent. But if you consistently draft in the top 10 which we will be doing you're going to get three or four really good players if you're bad for long enough. If you want to hold on to the relics we employ now it's just going to be more of the same. As far as Sullivan you do know that FSG really really likes him right? You understand that he has friends near the top of that organization right? And I can tell you this you can expect him to have a hand in who they hire as general manager. So this notion that he might be gone anytime soon I think is just wishful thinking. Sullivan will be here for quite some time. I'd love to be wrong about that but ...

This team ain’t finishing top ten for awhile.

 

[Wattsburgh]

A reason not to trade this pick is after the top 5 it’s any one goes. That means we are essentially getting a 6th overall pick. I haven’t seen any mocks consistent enough to where number 6 doesn’t go number 14 overall as well.

Now I’m not saying that this pick will be a HOFer, but value wise... Let’s just say next year around the deadline, he could be looking really good scoring 40 plus goals in the WHL to a buying team, that knows this draft was a depth one. And the one with Bedard.

To clarify; I wouldn’t mind trading it next deadline.

 

[Pancakes]

If Michkov for some reason falls out of the top 10 I'd consider trading up or doing whatever it takes to get him.

That's a player worth keeping the pick for and waiting on.

I doubt he falls that far, even though there has been some rumblings that he might. But it's hard to imagine a team that isn't afraid of Russians (such as Washington or St. Louis) passing on him.

 

[Wattsburgh]

Okay so DeSmith just won Gold and Boston has decided to take our 14oa and CDS to use the money left over on signing Bertuzzi. Had to throw in DOC too as they were obsessed with the tournament. Anyway,

Welcome to the Penguins, Jeremy Swayman. 8x5 mil

Nice meeting you 14. Thank you for our first Goalie statue.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

Okay so DeSmith just won Gold and Boston has decided to take our 14oa and CDS to use the money left over on signing Bertuzzi. Had to throw in DOC too as they were obsessed with the tournament. Anyway,

Welcome to the Penguins, Jeremy Swayman. 8x5 mil

Nice meeting you 14. Thank you for our first Goalie statue.

ya welcome Swayman, you go from the bruins system and defense to the Pens system and defense. Good luck lol

 

[The Old Master]

A reason not to trade this pick is after the top 5 it’s any one goes. That means we are essentially getting a 6th overall pick. I haven’t seen any mocks consistent enough to where number 6 doesn’t go number 14 overall as well.

Now I’m not saying that this pick will be a HOFer, but value wise...

maybe not, but it's the best chance to get one in years.

 

[Freeptop]

I don't necessarily expect a generational talent. But if you consistently draft in the top 10 which we will be doing you're going to get three or four really good players if you're bad for long enough. If you want to hold on to the relics we employ now it's just going to be more of the same. As far as Sullivan you do know that FSG really really likes him right? You understand that he has friends near the top of that organization right? And I can tell you this you can expect him to have a hand in who they hire as general manager. So this notion that he might be gone anytime soon I think is just wishful thinking. Sullivan will be here for quite some time. I'd love to be wrong about that but ...

The difference, fundamentally, between our viewpoints is that apparently I'm actually more skeptical than you are about the future.

I don't believe the Pens are likely to win the Cup again any time soon, no matter which path they take. I also don't think they make it back to the playoffs any time soon if they commit to a full rebuild - they'd be dropping down to the bottom, and then have to once again overtake a whole bunch of other teams that are already farther along in their rebuilds.

So, I'd rather just stretch things out with this group for a while longer. I'm fine with sitting with nostalgia for a bit, and sticking with the "relics" that are still scoring at a point per game pace. Surround them with good, younger players, and they might even be able to win a round or two.

When it comes to Sullivan, we're just going to have to agree to disagree. I haven't heard anything directly from FSG that was anything more than standard executive-speak. And all the other reporting about his place with the organization is coming from the same people in the same posts where they're posting rampant speculation about who FSG is interviewing for the GM position. So pardon me if I take that with the same size grain of salt as I do the reporting on the GM search.

 

[BusinessGoose]

Delusional:

Thinking the GM was the problem with the team and that wasting one of the only good chances at playoffs left was "progress"

Did hextall need to leave? Sure. And a whole lot else that won't change, still.