With the 14th overall selection in the 2023 NHL Entry Draft, the Pittsburgh Penguins select…

[Ryder71]

Sure ask Edmonton about that one with 1st OA.

I don't think you understand how cool rebuilds can be.

There's no guarantee about anything. That's why If you have a team to build around you go all in while it's there

Right, but I don't think we have a team to build around anymore, that's my point. You hear the names you think these are 25-year-olds in the prime of their careers, they are not. And they're Supporting Cast is putrid. You have the same voice in the locker room espousing his Doctrine day in day out. It's a tired and stale product. And I don't expect a guarantee of anything. I just know that what we currently have hasn't worked going on 6 years now. I know that for a fact.

 

[Ryder71]

The difference, fundamentally, between our viewpoints is that apparently I'm actually more skeptical than you are about the future.

I don't believe the Pens are likely to win the Cup again any time soon, no matter which path they take. I also don't think they make it back to the playoffs any time soon if they commit to a full rebuild - they'd be dropping down to the bottom, and then have to once again overtake a whole bunch of other teams that are already farther along in their rebuilds.

So, I'd rather just stretch things out with this group for a while longer. I'm fine with sitting with nostalgia for a bit, and sticking with the "relics" that are still scoring at a point per game pace. Surround them with good, younger players, and they might even be able to win a round or two.

When it comes to Sullivan, we're just going to have to agree to disagree. I haven't heard anything directly from FSG that was anything more than standard executive-speak. And all the other reporting about his place with the organization is coming from the same people in the same posts where they're posting rampant speculation about who FSG is interviewing for the GM position. So pardon me if I take that with the same size grain of salt as I do the reporting on the GM search.

You can disagree all you want about sullivan, I know what I'm talking about. But I digress on that point. I'm just going to say this one last time, the formula that has been in place since 2018 has not worked. That is a fact that cannot be disputed. That's not opinion based, that is fact-based. If you want to continue down the same road while our core gets older and older, you're just holding on for posterity sake. And you have every right to do that if you want, but I am not going to go down that road, the party is over, it probably was over after we lost to the Canadians a few years back. We should have blew it up then. But most certainly we should dismantle now. And send Sid to Colorado where he belongs.

 

[Freeptop]

You can disagree all you want about sullivan, I know what I'm talking about. But I digress on that point. I'm just going to say this one last time, the formula that has been in place since 2018 has not worked. That is a fact that cannot be disputed. That's not opinion based, that is fact-based. If you want to continue down the same road while our core gets older and older, you're just holding on for posterity sake. And you have every right to do that if you want, but I am not going to go down that road, the party is over, it probably was over after we lost to the Canadians a few years back. We should have blew it up then. But most certainly we should dismantle now. And send Sid to Colorado where he belongs.

I believe that's what I said, yes.
As I said in my previous post, the key difference here is that I don't think a rebuild will actually make things better, and you apparently do.

 

[Ryder71]

I believe that's what I said, yes.
As I said in my previous post, the key difference here is that I don't think a rebuild will actually make things better, and you apparently do.

Well, I know that the current Formula isn't working, so..

 

[3ladesof5teel]

Right, but I don't think we have a team to build around anymore, that's my point. You hear the names you think these are 25-year-olds in the prime of their careers, they are not. And they're Supporting Cast is putrid. You have the same voice in the locker room espousing his Doctrine day in day out. It's a tired and stale product. And I don't expect a guarantee of anything. I just know that what we currently have hasn't worked going on 6 years now. I know that for a fact.

It also hasn't worked for 30 other teams in the NHL.

Only 1 team wins. We had one of the large favs last season on their toes.

This season everyone was ready to punch Boston or the Rags a ticket before the playoffs we're even played.

This team is closer than it is further away. I'll agree that as age comes it won't be any easier and if both Geno and Crosby were laboring, but they arent. It's still one of the better 1 2 punches in the NHL.

 

[KareemTrustfund]

It also hasn't worked for 30 other teams in the NHL.

Only 1 team wins. We had one of the large favs last season on their toes.

This season everyone was ready to punch Boston or the Rags a ticket before the playoffs we're even played.

This team is closer than it is further away. I'll agree that as age comes it won't be any easier and if both Geno and Crosby were laboring, but they arent. It's still one of the better 1 2 punches in the NHL.

The pens are the only team to have two centres above PPG. Even if the rebuild goes awesome we’d be hard pressed to get that back. Every team in the league would kill to have that production down the middle . But we should rebuild just because their old and might suck in a couple years? Why don’t we wait until they actually can’t do it anymore before all this rebuild mumbo jumbo.

 

[3ladesof5teel]

The pens are the only team to have two centres above PPG. Even if the rebuild goes awesome we’d be hard pressed to get that back. Every team in the league would kill to have that production down the middle . But we should rebuild just because their old and might suck in a couple years? Why don’t we wait until they actually can’t do it anymore before all this rebuild mumbo jumbo.

I never understood the age splainin.

Age means nothing performance does and our old guys are performing well above many of those so called 25 year olds who are apparently better than them.

 

[Ryder71]

I never understood the age splainin.

Age means nothing performance does and our old guys are performing well above many of those so called 25 year olds who are apparently better than them.

Well, let's look at their performances in the playoffs shall we? When was the last time they LED the team to a victory in the first round? As a follow-up, what makes you think anything is going to change moving forward? They aren't close, when you can't even beat two of the bottom three teams to get in the playoffs when they had complete control of finishing as high as seventh that pretty much sums it up. I have no idea why the hell you think they're close to doing anything but Lose. This is mind-boggling that people seem to have any modicum of Hope for this core after the last 6 years. Makes no sense at all. In their last five playoff series they are o and five. That means they didn't win one single playoff series in that time. And in four of those five they were the favorite. You think about that.

 

[chethejet]

Hextall really crushed the Pens with his moves. Cap space and tying up so much in non productive assets was and is a killer. But a new Front office with smarts can rectify most of the damage. Yes there will be costs but Pens are not that far away with some smart moves. What is telling is the success of DOC in the worlds when he can't make a dent in sullivans crap system. I hope the new GM will tell sully this is what we are doing and it isn't smurf hockey.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I actually think Hextall did a good job at the end clearing out problem contracts and sticky cap situations. Kulikov blows but he got out of McGinn. Ya'll were convinced Kapanen was hot Swiss league garbage and he managed to get out of that one, too. Blueger was flipped as well but it's not like he was a potential long term problem like the other two. But still that's like 8M in lousy contracts out the door right there.

...but then of course he undid most of that with one feverdream-inspired f***up.

 

[3ladesof5teel]

Well, let's look at their performances in the playoffs shall we? When was the last time they LED the team to a victory in the first round? As a follow-up, what makes you think anything is going to change moving forward? They aren't close, when you can't even beat two of the bottom three teams to get in the playoffs when they had complete control of finishing as high as seventh that pretty much sums it up. I have no idea why the hell you think they're close to doing anything but Lose. This is mind-boggling that people seem to have any modicum of Hope for this core after the last 6 years. Makes no sense at all. In their last five playoff series they are o and five. That means they didn't win one single playoff series in that time. And in four of those five they were the favorite. You think about that.

Every season is different and plays out in another way. Just look how all seasons and playoffs play out.

Just because a team loses a prior year doesn't mean that is what happens the next. All the loses were completely different circumstances.

Last season has no correlation on what will happen in future seasons.

 

[Jacob]

Reinbacher just got hurt in the WCs. Didn’t look terrible but he limped to the bench then limped to the dressing room. Hip check from Sandin, so maybe knee or charlie horse. Didn’t see his knee hyper-extend. Looked good prior to that, though. Very noticeable. Loose pucks that don’t even seem 50/50 he just snags and skates away with with full possession.

 

[Ryder71]

Every season is different and plays out in another way. Just look how all seasons and playoffs play out.

Just because a team loses a prior year doesn't mean that is what happens the next. All the loses were completely different circumstances.

Last season has no correlation on what will happen in future seasons.

wow, okay well if you want to have eternal hope for this team that's fine. But they haven't done anything going on 6 years now. Now, if they had one bad playoff performance say last year then I could say it was a one-off. Maybe if they made a decent run in 2021 even. But we're talking over half a decade now. It's not just a fluke they haven't done anything, it's a pattern. And the same people involved in that exercise in futility are still involved now. I don't even expect them to win a cup, it would just be nice to win a damn round. And that's just not going to happen with this group. Hasn't happened since 2018.

 

[chethejet]

Pens need a RD or bigger RW and Wood fits that as does the Reinbacher. LOve either one. If not the RH center who has really good skating center who needs to mature and add size. But at almost 6 feet and 170, he can become a decent sized center for the Pens.

 

[Andy99]

Pens need a RD or bigger RW and Wood fits that as does the Reinbacher. LOve either one. If not the RH center who has really good skating center who needs to mature and add size. But at almost 6 feet and 170, he can become a decent sized center for the Pens.

What we need is to stop focusing on what we “need” lol…if we focus on drafting high hockey IQ players who can skate, we’ll be fine…18 year old boys grow all the time and we shouldn’t force a center or handedness to pick a lesser player without the dynamic offensive upside of other smaller, left handed players

 

[SEALBound]

What we need is to stop focusing on what we “need” lol…if we focus on drafting high hockey IQ players who can skate, we’ll be fine…18 year old boys grow all the time and we shouldn’t force a center or handedness to pick a lesser player without the dynamic offensive upside of other smaller, left handed players

I do agree to an extent. BPA is usually the best policy. If you have two equal prospects though, you take the position you need. I would be concerned if we selected a dman in the mold of Pickering again or even a goalie. Unless the player available is billed as the next Karlsson or Vasilevsky.

I think Matthew Wood would be a great pick.

 

[Andy99]

I do agree to an extent. BPA is usually the best policy. If you have two equal prospects though, you take the position you need. I would be concerned if we selected a dman in the mold of Pickering again or even a goalie. Unless the player available is billed as the next Karlsson or Vasilevsky.

I think Matthew Wood would be a great pick.

Depends who’s there…his speed is a question mark and not a strong suit…I personally hope there are better combos of speed and IQ available to us at #14 if we pick there

 

[SEALBound]

Depends who’s there…his speed is a question mark and not a strong suit…I personally hope there are better combos of speed and IQ available to us at #14 if we pick there

I would love to figure out a way to move up and get Will Smith.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

I would love to figure out a way to move up and get Will Smith.

Good luck, we are talking getting into the top 5. I don't think we have what it takes to get teams interested

 

[SomeDude]

I would love to figure out a way to move up and get Will Smith.

Just make a joke about his cheating bald headed wife. He’ll be there.

 

[SEALBound]

Good luck, we are talking getting into the top 5. I don't think we have what it takes to get teams interested

Most have him at 6/7/8. I think the top 4 is pretty well set. 1 is Bedard and then 2-4 is pick your poison (similar to the 06 draft). After that, I think there's a discussion. I've heard a lot more positives on Benson than Smith but that's merely a subjective reading volume.

Just so hard to ignore Smith's production, even if it is just the USHL. There are some monster producers coming off that NTDP.

This is where sending a guy like Dumo or Zucker out for a 2nd at the TDL would have been useful (had we had a crystal ball n all).

I've even toyed with the idea of dropping back in the draft to the mid-20s, say by adding an extra 2nd rounder and taking Gabe Perreault somewhere in the 20s. Then snagging a guy like Hunter Anderson. Just as a means to get two good prospects in the system. This assuming we don't trade it for a now-guy.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

Most have him at 6/7/8. I think the top 4 is pretty well set. 1 is Bedard and then 2-4 is pick your poison (similar to the 06 draft). After that, I think there's a discussion. I've heard a lot more positives on Benson than Smith but that's merely a subjective reading volume.

Just so hard to ignore Smith's production, even if it is just the USHL. There are some monster producers coming off that NTDP.

This is where sending a guy like Dumo or Zucker out for a 2nd at the TDL would have been useful (had we had a crystal ball n all).

I've even toyed with the idea of dropping back in the draft to the mid-20s, say by adding an extra 2nd rounder and taking Gabe Perreault somewhere in the 20s. Then snagging a guy like Hunter Anderson. Just as a means to get two good prospects in the system. This assuming we don't trade it for a now-guy.

I think Smith is gone by 5, Montreal will take him if he is still there. Michkov is the only player that can screw this order up.

You don't need to convince me, I was probably the only one here saying to trade all pending UFA to be and Zucker was playing great hockey. We could have landed even a 1st had we tried and put him out there.

I'm good for falling back for an extra pick, this year is pretty deep, unless someone totally falls at 14 we can't refuse and who can be a game changer going forward

 

[SEALBound]

I think Smith is gone by 5, Montreal will take him if he is still there. Michkov is the only player that can screw this order up.

You don't need to convince me, I was probably the only one here saying to trade all pending UFA to be and Zucker was playing great hockey. We could have landed even a 1st had we tried and put him out there.

I'm good for falling back for an extra pick, this year is pretty deep, unless someone totally falls at 14 we can't refuse and who can be a game changer going forward

Other than Will Smith falling that far, I'm not sure if there's anyone I'm rooting to have drop to us. I think after 8-10, it's all about equal until it gets to us.

Yeah, getting a late 1st for Zucker and a 2nd for Dumo would have been great capital to have right now. Honestly, I'd have entertained the idea of taking on some of their salary as well. Say you got 27ov for Zucker, a 2nd for Dumo. 1st, 1st, 2nd for 5ov and Armia or Anderson...someone they want to send us to shed salary which is taken up by the cap we have from Zucker and Dumo.

Will Smith is the exact guy you need in the system right now. If he blows you away, you can stick him at 3C. Then he develops into the next 2C then eventual 1C for the future. Ideally by the time he's 26-27, you're in the shitter and you get the 1OV for a franchise center talent and Smith is the 2C behind him.

 

[Gurglesons]

Most have him at 6/7/8. I think the top 4 is pretty well set. 1 is Bedard and then 2-4 is pick your poison (similar to the 06 draft). After that, I think there's a discussion. I've heard a lot more positives on Benson than Smith but that's merely a subjective reading volume.

Just so hard to ignore Smith's production, even if it is just the USHL. There are some monster producers coming off that NTDP.

This is where sending a guy like Dumo or Zucker out for a 2nd at the TDL would have been useful (had we had a crystal ball n all).

I've even toyed with the idea of dropping back in the draft to the mid-20s, say by adding an extra 2nd rounder and taking Gabe Perreault somewhere in the 20s. Then snagging a guy like Hunter Anderson. Just as a means to get two good prospects in the system. This assuming we don't trade it for a now-guy.

Ranked #5 by CONSOLIDATED RANKING
Ranked #9 by ELITEPROSPECTS.COM
Ranked #6 by FCHOCKEY
Ranked #6 by DAILY FACEOFF
Ranked #5 by THE HOCKEY NEWS
Ranked #6 by TSN/BOB McKENZIE
Ranked #5 by MCKEEN'S HOCKEY
Ranked #6 by TSN/CRAIG BUTTON
Ranked #3 by NHL CENTRAL SCOUTING (NA Skaters)
Ranked #5 by SPORTSNET
Ranked #5 by RECRUIT SCOUTING
Ranked #7 by DOBBERPROSPECTS
Ranked #5 by DRAFT PROSPECTS HOCKEY
Ranked #8 by SMAHT SCOUTING

For reference

 

[SEALBound]

Ranked #5 by CONSOLIDATED RANKING
Ranked #9 by ELITEPROSPECTS.COM
Ranked #6 by FCHOCKEY
Ranked #6 by DAILY FACEOFF
Ranked #5 by THE HOCKEY NEWS
Ranked #6 by TSN/BOB McKENZIE
Ranked #5 by MCKEEN'S HOCKEY
Ranked #6 by TSN/CRAIG BUTTON
Ranked #3 by NHL CENTRAL SCOUTING (NA Skaters)
Ranked #5 by SPORTSNET
Ranked #5 by RECRUIT SCOUTING
Ranked #7 by DOBBERPROSPECTS
Ranked #5 by DRAFT PROSPECTS HOCKEY
Ranked #8 by SMAHT SCOUTING

For reference