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With how stacked next year's draft is...do we tank for one more year or try to make the playoffs?

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No more tanking. End up last if it happens but turn the corner if you can. We cant get into what the leafs are into having not gotten a good crack at a cup before everyone's contracts are due.
 
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chosen said:
If Kakko is not a top-line player out of the gate we have all been sold a phony bill of goods.

Some believed him to be taken over Hughes and if you believe he isn't 1st-line caliber immediately, I don't know what to tell you.

Kakko was very competitive at the highest level just a few weeks ago, but now he's not top 6 ready on a non-playoff team.

It feels like some here after squealing with delight at Kakko coming are now wondering if he's a 3rd liner. He won't be better than Howden was last season?
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Really people should look over the lineups for the World Championships---anyone who looked at Finland's before the tournament would have said 'no way do these guys have a chance'. There were maybe three guys who'd ever played in the NHL and one of them was a 19 year old. The Russians, Canadians, Swedes and American teams were chock full of big time NHL players and Finland beat them and Kakko---an 18 year old was one of their best (if not their best) players. He was a hell of a lot better than Kreider in that tournament--but now he sucks I guess.

You know it wouldn't shock me that Kakko in his rookie season as an 18 year old bests Kreider's most point productive year.
 
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This (entire, HF in general) forum is just strange. For the most part, young players, draft picks and prospects are a bit overrated. When it comes to evaluating/projecting the NHL roster and regular season, nearly everybody shoots low.

If the Rangers get Panarin, they are very clearly going to compete for a playoff (wild card) spot. If they don't, but keep Kreider, they will likely be closer to the playoff bubble than the bottom five. If the Rangers miss on Panarin, AND trade Kreider, then they are likely a bottom five team. I trust the environment with JD, Gorton and Dan Quinn here now, so I definitely don't think we are a Buffalo/Edmonton situation, but I think continuously looking into the top three of the next draft isn't in their plans.

In fact, it seems like they're clearly done with the mindset that they need to hit reset/move backward to move forward. Jeff Gorton is, now, clearly in retooling/adding next-level assets/pieces mode.

The "Core" Group of Players:
Trouba and Skjei -- No. 9 and no. 28 picks in 2012
Zibanejad -- No. 6 pick in 2013
Deangelo -- No. 19 pick in 2014
Howden -- No. 27 pick in 2016
Lias and Chytil -- No. 7 and No. 21 picks in 2017
Kravtsov, Miller and Lundkvist -- No. 9, No. 22 and No. 28 picks in 2018
Kakko (instant top-six talent) -- No. 2 in 2019

This list doesn't include Buchnevich (3rd; 2013), Fox (3rd; 2016), and the plethora of secondary prospects Gorton has added in several trades since 2017, as well as the goalie situation, which continues to look very promising. Their oldest question marks are Kreider (28) and Shattenkirk (30; contract expires in two seasons anyway).

I honestly believe they will surprise a lot of people next season. I think what Colorado did in 2017-18 can easily be in the cards. With Hank in the fold, even though he is getting up there in age, their ceiling could very well be higher.
 
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PuckLuck3043 said:
Can't wait for all the *****ing and moaning every game we are competitive, the kids play well, and we manage to collect those loser points. It's going to be another long season on here unfortunately.
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I was pretty pumped during those overtime and shoot out loses when we barely dragged our way in there in the first place.
 
eco's bones said:
The idea of tanking should be antithetical. You always try to win and Quinn certainly looks at it that way. I expect improvement from second year players and I wouildn't overplay the idea that Zucc and Hayes and maybe even Kreider aren't going to be here. Kreider goes if Panarin comes. Panarin's the better player and it's not even close. The thing is that we don't know what the Rangers are going to do in free agency. Last year they did nothing--but last year isn't this year. To me Panarin is the guy but there might be someone else or if we don't get Panarin we'll probably keep Kreider at least until the deadline and maybe (maybe not) add other pieces.

I don't think the Rangers are going to be satisfied not seeing real progress and Trouba should help the D immensely. We have a guy who can take charge of the D now.

I would also say--I've been actively watching the Rangers since the 71-72 (and yeah that kind of dates me) but in all that time I've never seen the Rangers bringing in so much talent in one off season--Kakko, Trouba, Kravtsov, Fox, Shestyorkin, Rykov and who knows maybe even Panarin. Mostly rookies but each one of those pieces is a huge get and the talent of the team has been boosted enormously. So the idea of wanting these guys to lose like last year or worse and gamble on the spin of a ball in a lottery machine is just a bad idea.
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It's only antithetical if you are being obtuse.

If the NHL had the international size rinks, we could build a team with players of great skill who flourish in those dimensions. Alas...the NHL and owners do not want to change the rink dimensions, but I will still pick the players who will do worse on a smaller rink

Is the same logic as denying draft position...

If fans hate the way drafting is done, then take your voices to social media and bitch until the NHL caves.

Until then...finishing lower gives the greatest chance and generational talent via the highest picks. You are just arguing against an Axiom.
 
Matt4776 said:
Yeah those Crosby and Malkin guys sure busted hard after being one of the worst teams in the league their rookie seasons. Certainly not franchise players.
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It's funny because as designed every generational player started with a pile of ass team, and they were fine.

It's not some exception to the rule either.

I have yet to see a future hall of fame at 23 just be like "f*** this losing culture, I hate hockey, I'm going back flip flon to milk yaks..."

Get f***ing real
 
Kakko said:
I don't want to sign guys for the sake of it. I also don't want to overhype our kids, but I want them to be good. If we're bottom 5, good. If our kids are so good that we're better than that, great.
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Ok... aside from every year and every single sub-board, which teams fans overhype their prospects?
 
nyr2k2 said:
Thread title implies we tanked last year. I don't think we did. We ran out a young team with some veteran players. At the TDL we shipped out the good veterans who we'd lose to free agency. That's not tanking.

They may do that this year again. I don't know. Depends on what happens in free agency. It also depends on how well things come together. Quinn gets his guys to play hard. They're going to go out there trying to win every night and I think there's enough there currently to win a decent amount of games.

What should they do? I really don't know. I'm just placing my faith in the team's management that they'll make the right decisions.
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I think they went down with the S.S. Obvious when it was well Obvious to a blind, deaf, mute that the Rangers might need to rebuild.
 
Synergy27 said:
Which as I’ve been harping on, is probably the second worst possible outcome, the worst being they trade prospects/picks at the deadline and then get bounced in round 1.

The goal here is to field a team capable of truly contending for the Cup for multiple seasons in a row. They are very close to having the horses capable of doing that in just a couple of years. They are not in that position yet this year, so the focus should be on development and hopefully ending up in a position where yet another elite talent can be added to the roster.

And this Edmonton/Phoenix/etc. argument needs to die in a fire. Management team differences aside, those teams suck because they can’t augment their elite youth with quality FAs. Using them as a basis of comparison to the Rangers is just useless on many levels.

I’d prefer to compare the Rangers current approach to the one that they’ve applied for basically my entire lifetime which led to one SC in 75+ years. Stay. The. Course.
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NOT you @Synergy27


Is it the Wisconsin Card Sorting Test that shows this error?

Rule: Avoid the dreaded middle

Poster: Hey if we makes these moves, we can get to the middle!!!

Da fuq?
 
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chosen said:
If Kakko is not a top-line player out of the gate we have all been sold a phony bill of goods.

Some believed him to be taken over Hughes and if you believe he isn't 1st-line caliber immediately, I don't know what to tell you.

Kakko was very competitive at the highest level just a few weeks ago, but now he's not top 6 ready on a non-playoff team.

It feels like some here after squealing with delight at Kakko coming are now wondering if he's a 3rd liner. He won't be better than Howden was last season?
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He's an 18 year old kid. Yes, he's uber talented, but we should make sure that we understand he's never been through an 82 game season. Let's see him play for 20 some games and we can talk about if he's already a top line player.

Look at Svechnikov last season. He had a good year. Is Kakko more touted? Yes, but he's on a more talented team. 37 points and 20 goals. I'd love for Kakko to put up 60 in year one, but we have to think that 40 is the more likely scenario due to the rookie wall and dearth of established NHL talent on the team.
 
LeetchisGod said:
We have much more in common with teams like Pitt, Chicago and Wash. Big market teams that embraced rebuilding by enduring several bad seasons. They obtained their best players primarily through high draft picks and supplemented them through trades and free agency.
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Chicago missed the playoffs nine out of 10 years. In year nine they drafted Toews and in year 10 they won the lottery. That’s not embracing a rebuild.
 
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bobbop said:
Chicago missed the playoffs nine out of 10 years. In year nine they drafted Toews and in year 10 they won the lottery. That’s not embracing a rebuild.
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Of course it was. When Rocky Wirtz finally got the team from his asshole father , the franchise had a huge culture shift. They most definitely went from just being run like shit to having a plan. Stan Bowman helped a bit too.
 
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bobbop said:
Chicago missed the playoffs nine out of 10 years. In year nine they drafted Toews and in year 10 they won the lottery. That’s not embracing a rebuild.
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i think its very important to look at how many years the hawks were bad before they drafted toews and kane or how many years the pens were bad before drafting malkin and crosby. people often look at the time from when they won the lottery to winning the cup as a potential timeline for the rangers but they didn't win the draft lottery in their first or 2nd year missing the playoffs...
 
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Chicago's owner died and the son(s) took over, picked a new direction, and spent actual money.

Can we at least keep the conversation honest?

Even to this point what the Rangers have done is not totally unprecedented, they have not drafted top of the draft for two years in a row (Hawks, Pens) Nor have they drafted over a several year term as highly as LA did prior to their Cup runs. Nor did they draft AO as well as other early and later 1sts.

The Rangers market more closely aligns with those teams than it does with whichever others ones wants to bring up in terms of a failed / ongoing forever rebuild.

Boston is your map if one is looking for another way, the Blues even, yet still not small market, internal cap teams.
 
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No, I don’t want to “tank”

I wanna see the kids play, I wanna enjoy another season of Hanks final years in a Blueshirts; I wanna see the Great Kakko; I wanna see The two Russian princes’ battle it out for Hanks throne; I wanna see Panarin light the lamp up nightly
 
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I've been saying for past month or so that I think we are ultimately going to be too good to satisfy the "we are going to suck" crowd and hence a Top 5 2020 draft pick is on the horizon due to the influx of very talented youth(Kakko,Kravtsov, Fox), likely improvement from the Chytle's,Lias's,ADA's of the world along with an improved d-corps now that Trouba is in town, combined with the rest of the Eastern conference other than Lightning,Bruins,Leafs and Caps having question marks galore. So nothing has changed my opinion about that.

What has changed tho for me is I also have resigned myself to thinking begrudgingly that we aren't getting Panarin as much as I'd love for him to be here. I also think we likely are not going to be a playoff team either because we simply aren't good enough as still too many warts and so folks like me who are more optimistic than most in here about our prospect to compete for a playoff spot this upcoming season need to face the reality it likely isn't going to happen and I'm OK about that.

So when I add it all up, I think we are probably going to be a middle feeder type team with a bullet as the rebuild will continue in earnest going forward. Thankfully as the Joey Bones of the world in here have pointed out, the draft next year will be very deep...alot deeper than this year was, and so even if we finish in that 12-15 range, we should still come out of it with a hell of solid piece to add to the arsenal.

I guess what I'm saying is this upcoming season is "gravy" for us as let's just let the kid play meaningful important minutes, keep adding pieces for the rebuild and as some in here have stated and I agree with, let the chip fall where they fall.

Ultimate scenario for me is for us to be a total pain in the ass for teams to play against, be playing important games in March of 2020 to give the kids a taste of what it's going to be like for the next decade as I anticipate us being a playoff team and Cup contender for a very long time, Gorton making some moves at the deadline and next year at this time, we possibly pull off a bigtime FA move on July 1 2020 and the really fun times will commence.

Bottom line, we are about 60-65% thru the rebuild and it's been a remarkable job by Gorton and his team to put the team in the position we are in now. Let's just enjoy watching the kids develop and keep enjoying the ride....that's what I'm going to do....:nod:
 
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