With how stacked next year's draft is...do we tank for one more year or try to make the playoffs?

[NikC]

Tank... Tank... and Tank again

They need talent. They got one .
Need 3, 4 more.
No more Cinderella seasons...

 

[n8]

Lol, "do we tank" as if the fans had any say in it. You know without a doubt from the last several games of the 2018-20019 season there is no way this team intentionally tanks. I hope we intentionally put our players in the best position for them to thrive and develop. If that means the kids all play in Hartford, then that. I think it was dumb how little ice time Lias and Chytil got with us when they could have been playing top minutes with Hartford.

 

[Maximus]

Yeah, I’m sorry, I should have added another 4-5 teams to that list.

So what teams do we have in common?

Ironically, I think the Debbies and Islanders are on a similar trajectory as us. I think our rebuild as great as it has been going is probably a tick or two ahead of those other two teams but I for one will not be surprised nor should anyone else in here that by the time we are really good and ready to compete seriously for Cups, that our arch rivals are also going to be two of the main teams we are going to have to go thru in the East, in order to reach the promised land.

And in my lifetime that hasn't happened many times when all three Metro NYC teams were all good at the same time. I think we are getting really close to that happening and that would be a not just a good thing but a great thing for the sport in general but amazing for our fanbase.

To finally have our two most hated rivals good again, we can fully muster up that hatred for them again like it was in the early 90's which is the only time I can recall all three teams were good at same time....fun times ahead for sure!

 

[Joey Bones]

Won't mind either way. This class is that deep!!

 

[chosen]

He's an 18 year old kid. Yes, he's uber talented, but we should make sure that we understand he's never been through an 82 game season. Let's see him play for 20 some games and we can talk about if he's already a top line player.

Look at Svechnikov last season. He had a good year. Is Kakko more touted? Yes, but he's on a more talented team. 37 points and 20 goals. I'd love for Kakko to put up 60 in year one, but we have to think that 40 is the more likely scenario due to the rookie wall and dearth of established NHL talent on the team.

Are there more expectations for Hughes than Svechnikov?

Way more, and Kaako was at worst a very close 2nd to Hughes, so I'm not buying that mitigating factors will have a negative impact on Kaako.

I believe that a lot of people who salivated over Kaako have now fallen into a position of fetal fear that perhaps Kaako really isn't special. Not an unusual fan behavior.

BTW, a lot of people here have been very high on Kravtsov. Why can't he be a Top 6 next season? Some folks here have compared him to some pretty good players.

Zib, Kaako, Kravtsov, Kreider (?), Chytil, Buch could be a decent top-6 next season. Might not, but could be. Trouba is good. DeAngelo is a decent offensive defenseman, Fox is supposed to be better than him. I still like Skjel. If one of the other kids make the team, they're competitive.

To me they are slightly below 50-50 to make the playoffs.

I would guess they are still live in Mid-March.

I understand that most here think it will be far worse, but I will be shocked if they are bottom 5 unless injuries and a selloff occurs.

 

[Maximus]

Were replacing a player that got pummeled when he was on the ice with a legit 1st pairing dman in the prime of his career. I think that makes the team significantly better defensively.

Matthews from feb 1 to the end of the season in his rookie year had 30 points in 34 games. Laine had 23 points in 28 games.

Even hischier who I dont think is the level prospect as kakko had 22 in 33 to finish his rookie year.

MacKinnon had 26 in 29 in his rookie year.

Hall had 11 in his last 16 over that period. Must have gotten hurt at end of year.

Tavares had 21 in 26.

Stamkos had 27 in 32.

Those are the players i think kakko is comparable so I do think he will be approaching star status by the end of his rookie year.

I mentioned something similar on another thread. I think most of us are so unaccustomed to us having a player of the elite talent of a Kakko, we are not used to tossing around elite type #'s to project for a player like Kakko.

This is the best rookie we've drafted since Leetch back in '86. I'm going to say what I said on the other thread, I look at Kakko in that same light. I forsee #'s like Petersson put up for the Canucks last year for Kakko. With him likely playing bigtime minutes in all situations in a Top 6 role, I can easily see a ceiling of a 35-40-75 type of season from him with a floor in the 30-30 range.

These are not unrealistic #'s I'm suggesting here. This is not just a regular Ranger rookie we just drafted in the first round. This is an uber talented guy.

Gun to my head, I say confidently Kakko goes 35-35-70 and wins the Calder running away....yeah I said it...

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

I mentioned something similar on another thread. I think most of us are so unaccustomed to us having a player of the elite talent of a Kakko, we are not used to tossing around elite type #'s to project for a player like Kakko.

This is the best rookie we've drafted since Leetch back in '86. I'm going to say what I said on the other thread, I look at Kakko in that same light. I forsee #'s like Petersson put up for the Canucks last year for Kakko. With him likely playing bigtime minutes in all situations in a Top 6 role, I can easily see a ceiling of a 35-40-75 type of season from him with a floor in the 30-30 range.

These are not unrealistic #'s I'm suggesting here. This is not just a regular Ranger rookie we just drafted in the first round. This is an uber talented guy.

Gun to my head, I say confidently Kakko goes 35-35-70 and wins the Calder running away....yeah I said it...

In fact, 52-75 is what should be hoped for.

 

[Maximus]

Really people should look over the lineups for the World Championships---anyone who looked at Finland's before the tournament would have said 'no way do these guys have a chance'. There were maybe three guys who'd ever played in the NHL and one of them was a 19 year old. The Russians, Canadians, Swedes and American teams were chock full of big time NHL players and Finland beat them and Kakko---an 18 year old was one of their best (if not their best) players. He was a hell of a lot better than Kreider in that tournament--but now he sucks I guess.

You know it wouldn't shock me that Kakko in his rookie season as an 18 year old bests Kreider's most point productive year.

I just said similar on another post on this thread. We are so unaccustomed in here in Rangerland, we are afraid or hesitant to project uber #'s for a rookie of ours. Well guess what folks, we have an uber talent in our midst and it's really OK to say this guy will be as good as his hype.

I'm old enough to remember when my favorite Ranger ever Steve Vickers as a rookie in just 61 games scored 30 goals and won the Calder.

I'm old enough to remember when another favorite Ranger of mine Mark Pavelich as a rookie back in 1981 scored 33 goals-43 assists for 76 points. Tony Granato scored 36 goals as a rookie for us back in '88

Another Tony....Tony f***ing Amonte as a rookie back in '91 scored 35 goals-34 assists for 69 points. Heck Petr freaking Prucha scored 30 goals back in the dark ages as a rookie.

And of course Mr. Leetch scored 23 goals...48 assists as rookie and of course won the Calder.

So yes my friends, it's actually possible and it has actually happened that Ranger rookies are permitted to have outstanding rookie seasons...lol

Seriously, Kakko has more talent in his left pinky than any of them other than Leetch of course. From everything I've seen of the highlight packages of him...the full games at the Worlds vs men and all the things I've heard and read from scouts who know a hell of alot more than any of us, this guy is ELITE!!.

It's not crazy or unrealistic to think he could score 35-40 goals and a similar amount of assists this season. I know all about having realistic expectations but the #'s I see Kakko hitting this year are realistic IMO and I think some of my Ranger brothers in here need to embrace that this isn't just your normal 40-50 point decent rookie. To be honest, if he did score only 40-50 points this year, something went very wrong.

I may be on an island here and that's OK but I anticipate a spectacular rookie season from Kakko and if he doesn't win the Calder and have at least 60+ points at the absolute minimum, I'll be honest, I'm going to be pretty damn pissed. I anticipate tho not being pissed seeing I am supremely confident Kakko will win the Calder and score 70+ points...so all good...

 

[Pizza]

Refreshing.

Some positive takes. Like a breath of fresh air.

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

I mentioned something similar on another thread. I think most of us are so unaccustomed to us having a player of the elite talent of a Kakko, we are not used to tossing around elite type #'s to project for a player like Kakko.

This is the best rookie we've drafted since Leetch back in '86. I'm going to say what I said on the other thread, I look at Kakko in that same light. I forsee #'s like Petersson put up for the Canucks last year for Kakko. With him likely playing bigtime minutes in all situations in a Top 6 role, I can easily see a ceiling of a 35-40-75 type of season from him with a floor in the 30-30 range.

These are not unrealistic #'s I'm suggesting here. This is not just a regular Ranger rookie we just drafted in the first round. This is an uber talented guy.

Gun to my head, I say confidently Kakko goes 35-35-70 and wins the Calder running away....yeah I said it...

Is it possible, sure. Is it likely, absolutely not.

The expectations being heaped on this kid are just absurd. I believe he's an elite talent, but players often take some time to assimilate. Whether it's the difference in style between European and US leagues. The cultural differences that come with living in a new country and city like New York, etc.

Expecting him to just step in and hit 70+ points is really setting an incredibly high bar. And these are the kinds of expectations that lead to (unnecessary) disappointment throughout the season when players inevitably under-perform.

The same goes for Kravtsov, who people are just penciling in as a top 6 producer.

It doesn't matter one iota if we suck wind next year. What does matter is that these kids develop, so that in 2-3 years, we an finally talk the way you're talking today with the expected reality that it can come to fruition.

 

[eco's bones]

Is it possible, sure. Is it likely, absolutely not.

The expectations being heaped on this kid are just absurd. I believe he's an elite talent, but players often take some time to assimilate. Whether it's the difference in style between European and US leagues. The cultural differences that come with living in a new country and city like New York, etc.

Expecting him to just step in and hit 70+ points is really setting an incredibly high bar. And these are the kinds of expectations that lead to (unnecessary) disappointment throughout the season when players inevitably under-perform.

The same goes for Kravtsov, who people are just penciling in as a top 6 producer.

It doesn't matter one iota if we suck wind next year. What does matter is that these kids develop, so that in 2-3 years, we an finally talk the way you're talking today with the expected reality that it can come to fruition.

Going into the draft before this one---one of the things I often heard was Brady Tkachuk was overrated. A whole bunch of people here looked at his 8 goals and 31 points for Boston U. and came to the conclusion that he wasn't that good and that he'd never be a goal scoring threat and didn't belong in the top 5---maybe not even the top 10. And yet here is Ottawa going into last season with no Erik Karlsson (catalyst of their offense for a decade) and no Michael Hoffman and here is Brady Tkachuk proving his naysayers wrong by putting up 22 goals and 45 points right out of the draft. Fact is the first four players taken in 2018 all jumped straight to the NHL and all had very good years and of those four players Kakko is a better player than at least Svechnikov, Kotkaniemi and Tkachuk.

Do I think he'll hit 70+ points as a rookie?--not really but I do think he has a real shot at 50--I mean if Tkachuk can put up 45 in 71 games (which prorated to an 82 game schedule puts him over 50) for Ottawa I think Kakko should be capable of doing the same and on the Rangers 50 points means he ain't on the third line. Here's the thing he's going to be a better player than guys like Kreider and Buchnevich and quite likely right out of the gate. That was the reason for the excitement and buzz around him--because that kind of expectation is there for him. He's a level or two above other players in the first round--with the exception of Hughes. He also has the physical frame to play right away. So it's not absurd at all--or shouldn't be--he should be a Calder Trophy candidate.

 

[aufheben]

Half the players on the team are going to be prospects, and you want them to suck in order to draft more prospects?

What the f*** here you guys thinking?

Chicago missed the playoffs nine out of 10 years. In year nine they drafted Toews and in year 10 they won the lottery. That’s not embracing a rebuild.

 

[IamNotADancer]

Careful what you wish for. A losing attitude quickly creeps into a locker room and can mess up the mental development of a young player.
Tanking is bullshit and you should never play to "not lose". Always play to win or stop being a professional and join a pick up game.

Look no further than the Oilers to see what a "oh let's stockpile as many franchise players through the draft as we can" mentality gets you.
Heck, even Buffalo is still reeling from their "losing mentality".

 

[Ghost of jas]

Careful what you wish for. A losing attitude quickly creeps into a locker room and can mess up the mental development of a young player.
Tanking is bull**** and you should never play to "not lose". Always play to win or stop being a professional and join a pick up game.

Look no further than the Oilers to see what a "oh let's stockpile as many franchise players through the draft as we can" mentality gets you.
Heck, even Buffalo is still reeling from their "losing mentality".

Again, it's not that the Rangers are going to deliberately tank, they're just not going to be very good. Kakko and Kravtsov are going to be able to do things that the likes of Crosby, Malkin, Ovechkin and McDavid couldn't do before them. They have to replace the production of Hayes and Zuccarello and likely Kreider and Vesey. Henke did not look good at the end of the year. If they are not drafting top ten again next year, this fanbase should be over the moon, because the kids are likely better than what they are expected to be.

 

[IronBloodedLion]

Careful what you wish for. A losing attitude quickly creeps into a locker room and can mess up the mental development of a young player.
Tanking is bull**** and you should never play to "not lose". Always play to win or stop being a professional and join a pick up game.

Look no further than the Oilers to see what a "oh let's stockpile as many franchise players through the draft as we can" mentality gets you.
Heck, even Buffalo is still reeling from their "losing mentality".

What disgrace of a franchise they are. They have the best player in the world and they were playing golf this spring.

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

Careful what you wish for. A losing attitude quickly creeps into a locker room and can mess up the mental development of a young player.
Tanking is bull**** and you should never play to "not lose". Always play to win or stop being a professional and join a pick up game.

Look no further than the Oilers to see what a "oh let's stockpile as many franchise players through the draft as we can" mentality gets you.
Heck, even Buffalo is still reeling from their "losing mentality".

I have pointed out the differences time and time again, but the Rangers organization, for a myriad of reasons, is absolutely nothing like Edmonton. That comparison is lazy and completely unjust.

 

[Off Sides]

The concern should not be the Oilers or Sabres, it should be that the Rangers turn into the Rangers.

 

[bernmeister]

Looks to be one of the deepest drafts in recent years, adding a guy like Lafreniere, Byfield, Raymond, Lundell, etc. would be the final piece in building a long term contender.

Do you guys support one more season of mediocrity or do you want us to try to make the playoffs?

Good thread OP.
The answer in theory is easy.
The execution is more difficult.

Obviously, the draft cannot be manipulated. I remember the Pens tanking to get Lemieux decades ago. That kind of deliberate suck will not get you anywhere now.

So you need to make the correct overall choices, try to max draft pick acquisition without going too deep on the bone that you've cut your nose to spite your face, and hope with the extra selection or 2 you might get lucky with the lottery.

What should we do?
We need to move excess vets, and to the extent prudent give youth more, not less time.

Defense
Hajek played well, got injured. Lindgren looked good in limited time, should also have a chance. Rykov just got here, have to see what he has in camp. Claesson fine in depth.
That leaves Skjei who can be traded and Staal, who can't. I realize Brady and Jacob are buds, but Trouba is is no dummy and can do the math. There are only so many premium $ slots and if he is to be paid --- and he will be, I estimate 7m per, 1m signing bonus = 50m --- that does not leave lots of leverage. On top of that guys [Kreider] gotta get paid, and others [Staal, Hank] we are locked into for this yr. So Skjei has to go. At this pt I believe Chicago is possible since they need Keith replacement, I expect Montreal gives us a top 12 protected first.

Staal, our only hope was him at half for Marleau at full pop. I could see him accepting 3rd pair/7th and waiving to go there. But now he must be our 3rd pair this yr, buyout is too much hit.

Brendan Smith offers only tuffness at too much $. IMO can be sent to Vegas for cap space in a 6 step forward, 5 step backwards scenario. They have his brother as a star F to keep him in line. They desperately need cap. Smith at half, take back expirings Merril and Holden. Knights create an extra slot they need for D, and a drop of cap. Smith/Merril do not see our varsity roster.

Goalies
We have enuf in case somebody is injured
Georgiev to Flames now while return is highest. Hank + Shesty

Fs
Namest has shown NOTHING to demonstrate he is anything w/out Stamkos. Don't want him eating up space on this roster anymore. I don't blame Gorton for taking him presumably to save the McD deal, but now he's just gotta go, so we can use the mins elsewhere.
Namest at half to whoever takes him, prob 'yotes for a 4th, possibly a 3rd. I see TB biting at half as a stopgap expiring to depth loss of JT production.

-------------
Those were easy.
Now the dif part is what to do about balance of F surplus if we want to sign Panarin, and we do, b'c he is a full size, decent speed elite sniper which we don't have, would = immediate 1RW. So him and Trouba getting $ = we need to do more.
Strome I could see going to Flames w/Geor.

Vesey/Fast are cheap enuf to keep
So that leaves what futures can you get for Andersson if decent offer to his slotting is available, and Chytil - 3rd line C until Howden steps up after Lias is moved.

Not sure we get Zib unloaded for top $ before Mon July 1, so I pair him RW w/Kreider's line

move Lettieri

Our Fs then =
Kappo Kravtsov Panarin - talent line
Kreider Nieves Zib - speed line
Chytil Howden Fast - bit o everything line
Lemieux Brickley Gettinger bruising checker line

I call 'em like I see em.

and again, pertinent to the thread, those moves fetch some futures while now getting down to a core nucleus that is ready to spring ahead following season.
If we are lucky, we finish like 14th or so, and do well in the lottery, with our Habs 1st and other swag upgrading our talent.

 

[Edge]

Are there more expectations for Hughes than Svechnikov?

Way more, and Kaako was at worst a very close 2nd to Hughes, so I'm not buying that mitigating factors will have a negative impact on Kaako.

I believe that a lot of people who salivated over Kaako have now fallen into a position of fetal fear that perhaps Kaako really isn't special. Not an unusual fan behavior.

BTW, a lot of people here have been very high on Kravtsov. Why can't he be a Top 6 next season? Some folks here have compared him to some pretty good players.

Zib, Kaako, Kravtsov, Kreider (?), Chytil, Buch could be a decent top-6 next season. Might not, but could be. Trouba is good. DeAngelo is a decent offensive defenseman, Fox is supposed to be better than him. I still like Skjel. If one of the other kids make the team, they're competitive.

To me they are slightly below 50-50 to make the playoffs.

I would guess they are still live in Mid-March.

I understand that most here think it will be far worse, but I will be shocked if they are bottom 5 unless injuries and a selloff occurs.

I think the challenge is that Kakko and Kravtsov could have super seasons as rookies, and we've essentially replaced the production of Hayes and Zucc.

The other kids could have really good seasons as well, and if we trade Kreider, we're a wash there.

So where were we with Hayes and Zucc and Kreider last season? That's the approximate neighborhood some are predicting this season.

The challenge with a team in transition, and this is very much a team in transition, is that some things improve and other things slide. That will probably continue for a little bit until more of the younger players start hitting their stride. Right now I'm banking on their being some starts and stops.

But I'm in the same boat as @jas. If the team does better, it will be because multiple young talents are really hitting it out of the park. In which case, I'm over the moon.

 

[haveandare]

It’s not a choice to make. They’ll ice a young team and if they make the playoffs that will undoubtedly be a very good thing because it will mean the likes of Kakko, Kravtsov, Fox etc are playing extremely well

 

[Edge]

Careful what you wish for. A losing attitude quickly creeps into a locker room and can mess up the mental development of a young player.
Tanking is bull**** and you should never play to "not lose". Always play to win or stop being a professional and join a pick up game.

Look no further than the Oilers to see what a "oh let's stockpile as many franchise players through the draft as we can" mentality gets you.
Heck, even Buffalo is still reeling from their "losing mentality".

Trading for Trouba. Considering Panarin. Being able to get Fox. Etc. Etc. Etc.

For the millionth time:

WE ARE NOT EDMONTON OR BUFFALO!

 

[Tawnos]

I have pointed out the differences time and time again, but the Rangers organization, for a myriad of reasons, is absolutely nothing like Edmonton. That comparison is lazy and completely unjust.

This remains to be seen. It's easy to be optimistic right now and it's been easy to be optimistic in the past for the Oilers.

 

[Edge]

This remains to be seen. It's easy to be optimistic right now and it's been easy to be optimistic in the past for the Oilers.

In 12 months we've managed to assemble more promising depth than Edmonton has assembled in a decade.

We've also managed to trade players that organization has lacked, acquire players that they couldn't, and visit with a free agent who wouldn't give them the time of day.

There's an awful lot that would have to fall of a cliff for us to be in the category, no matter how many times a percentage of this board closes its eyes, sticks its fingers in its ears, and yells, "Nah, nah, nah. Can't hear you."

 

[LeetchisGod]

In 12 months we've managed to assemble more promising depth than Edmonton has assembled in a decade.

We've also managed to trade players that organization has lacked, acquire players that they couldn't, and visit with a free agent who wouldn't give them the time of day.

There's an awful lot that would have to fall of a cliff for us to be in the category, no matter how many times a percentage of this board closes its eyes, sticks its fingers in its ears, and yells, "Nah, nah, nah. Can't hear you."

I really don't understand why this is such a difficult concept for some in here to grasp.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Personally, despite an ever-growing stable of young talent, I think the team will be capable of tanking without willfully doing it next year. These kids need time to marinate, and its going to be a bumpy road.