Blue Jays Discussion: Winter Meetings: Because there's no more fitting time to talk baseball than December

[tp71]

I totally agree with your 1st assumption, it's a pressure tactic more then any thing

I kinda expect EE to test FA regardless. I don't blame him with the dollars thrown around. Could be in line for a damn fine contract. Could be Bostons next DH. I imagine they'd pay pretty handsomely for an Ortiz replacement.

 

[Cor]

Yeah, Boston will throw big money at EE and Bautista if they had the chance.

Imagine if they both went there

 

[Mitchy]

"That's ridiculous... there's no way we're willing to give up AJ Pollock for Shelby Miller.

We'll give you everything else, though."

If there were every a spot where an hf hockey line of "Never go full Holmgren" would be appropriate for baseball..."Never go full Stewart"

Dave Stewart is a real GM.

 

[BackHandShelf22]

All I said was " Pompey is not ready for every day duty as yet, and I am not sure if he will be"

- People laughed at me
- Some suggested that I am writing off Pompey (when I said I am not sure)
- And your response was this is baseball not NHL

And I am really puzzled

A conclusion likely can't come until 'he proves he can't' be an everyday player. He hasn't been given a chance for full time duty just yet so it's within reason that your comment is a little premature.

As for the other stuff. Aside from making sure you provide reasoning for your opinions, the internet is a harsh place. This is quite tame and for the most part organized compared to other forums. I would suggest either using the block function or just allow stuff to roll off your back.

 

[tp71]

Dave Stewart is a real GM.

Holmgren was at one point too somehow

 

[JS19]

Yeah, Boston will throw big money at EE and Bautista if they had the chance.

Imagine if they both went there

 

[BackHandShelf22]

Yeah, Boston will throw big money at EE and Bautista if they had the chance.

Imagine if they both went there

I almost hope they go nuts on Chris Davis in the hopes that EE doesn't go there down the line. Then again, would I rather face EE or Davis for the next 3-4 years. Pick your poison . Bautista's coming back for sure. He's said he'd like to retire a jay. I don't anticipate him asking for a 5+ year deal considering his age. Makes sense for everyone. EE's a bit more tricky. Either give him a 2-3 year deal, or let him know that he doesn't fit into the plans and A) ask him if there's a team he'd be interested in going to or B) just let the guy walk and we'll pick up the compensation pick.

 

[tp71]

Yeah, Boston will throw big money at EE and Bautista if they had the chance.

Imagine if they both went there

I could see it happening tbh. I really could.

 

[Ciao]

Well, if you're going to act like and make comments which make it seem like you don't know anything about baseball, people are going to call you (using this generally) out on it. Contrary to popular belief, your opinion can be wrong.

It's not my place to moderate anything, but here's a quote from the Site Rules, Rule #1: "Debates are fine, but critique the opinion, not the person."

Ridiculing an idea is fine. Ridiculing or diminishing a person is not.

 

[The Nemesis]

All I said was " Pompey is not ready for every day duty as yet, and I am not sure if he will be"

- People laughed at me
- Some suggested that I am writing off Pompey (when I said I am not sure)
- And your response was this is baseball not NHL

And I am really puzzled

your comment reads like a predictive statement. "I'm not sure he will be" carries the implication of "I don't think he will be"

"not sure" often comes across as if it means "don't think"

So your statement appears to be a proclamation that you believe Pompey probably doesn't have a future as an MLB regular, and is being made when he is only 22 years old right now (23 in a few days), and apparently in part because he got given the starting CF job after a hot end to 2014 and couldn't keep it (which wasn't really that outlandish of an outcome)

and the history of this board and the fact that HF is a hockey site first and foremost means that these sorts of opinions are usually formed because the posters are more familiar with hockey, including hockey player progression. So when someone appears to be writing off a player at 22, it again carries the inference that it's because at 22 any reasonable hockey prospect should've had an impact.

That's what happened. However unintentional, your argument looked like it was declaring a strong probability of Pompey being a bust because he hadn't secured an MLB job by the time he was 23.

I apologize for misinterpreting your statement if that wasn't your intended meaning.

 

[BackHandShelf22]

It's not my place to moderate anything, but here's a quote from the Site Rules, Rule #1: "Debates are fine, but critique the opinion, not the person."

Ridiculing an idea is fine. Ridiculing or diminishing a person is not.

To be fair, pointing out and laughing emphatically at an outlandish opinion from someone is not the same thing as directly insulting that person. As long as it doesn't get personal, it's discussion.

 

[Cor]

By giving this deadline, it likely makes Shapiro and Atkins look at dealing him a bit more right?

Not saying they try and trade him, but certainly more curious at what they could get

 

[The Nemesis]

I almost hope they go nuts on Chris Davis in the hopes that EE doesn't go there down the line. Then again, would I rather face EE or Davis for the next 3-4 years. Pick your poison . Bautista's coming back for sure. He's said he'd like to retire a jay. I don't anticipate him asking for a 5+ year deal considering his age. Makes sense for everyone. EE's a bit more tricky. Either give him a 2-3 year deal, or let him know that he doesn't fit into the plans and A) ask him if there's a team he'd be interested in going to or B) just let the guy walk and we'll pick up the compensation pick.

Honestly, if Boston went after Davis or Encarnacion, there are reasonable ways that it could end badly for them.

1) EE seems to have a bit of a problem with nagging injuries now, especially his back. That's oly going to get worse as time goes on.

2) I'm honestly not sure what to make of Davis. Yeah he had 2 great seasons, but they were sandwiched around a godawful one, and some mediocre seasons before then. He has yet to prove he deserves a big-money long term deal by putting up consistently elite seasons.

 

[Discoverer]

The bolded in conjunction to the quote you commented is what I was getting at: it's far too early to judge Pompey.

To be fair, it's perfectly reasonable to be "down" on a prospect or think he won't pan out. I'm high on Pompey... a lot of people aren't for various reasons. I think their wrong. It's frustrating when people don't provide any evidence to back up an opinion, but I didn't even think he was giving an opinion; he was simply suggesting that it's possible Pompey may not turn out. I don't see what's wrong with that.

Overall, both sides are probably guilty and need to improve the discussion.

 

[Ciao]

To be fair, pointing out and laughing emphatically at an outlandish opinion from someone is not the same thing as directly insulting that person. As long as it doesn't get personal, it's discussion.

I agree.

I have stated many, many ridiculous ideas myself, and realized how ridiculous they were when someone was good enough to point that out. That is a good discussion.

 

[Habaneros]

Yeah, Boston will throw big money at EE and Bautista if they had the chance.

Imagine if they both went there

We can shut both down no worries...

The Blue Jays have expressed some interest in right-handed relievers Joe Blanton, Yusmeiro Petit and Craig Stammen, according to industry sources.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/blue-jays-casting-wide-net-in-search-for-bullpen-arms/

 

[The Nemesis]

We can shut both down no worries...



http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/blue-jays-casting-wide-net-in-search-for-bullpen-arms/

Petit would be interesting. Though I'm a little concerned about teh sudden and dramatic decrease in strikeouts last year (and seeming shift away from throwing his slider)

Stammen could be cost-effective coming off a torn arm muscle (at least it's not an elbow problem.

Again, the lack of K's is a little bit of a red flag, but he's GB heavy which would play well with this team's defence, and he keeps it in the park.

Also not a fan of this:

That's some BJ Ryan mechanics going on with his pitching arm.



Joe Blanton.... ugh. But he does seem to have reinvented himself as a reliever. I may just be letting my distaste for him as a mediocre starter who got waaaaay too much credit because "he wins games" be coloring my opinion.

 

[MJ65]

As I said earlier it's not really end of the world if EE is not re-signed and I do have reasons for it

- The way he has presented himself he is looking for sky in terms of $
- He is a among the best with his power and run production, but his health is a bit of a concern
- He is already 32 years old (close to 33) and is not going to be the same player after 2-3 years, and I believe he will be looking for a long term deal
- I would prefer some one who is versatile and can play different positions besides being a DH (I know, he can play 1B), preferably a solid LH bat
- Trade him and get a half decent starter as well as a reliever

 

[zeke]

What are the odds that the Jays make a run at Cliff Lee?

According to Heyman, he's looking for a 1 year deal and his main priority is to win.

The only risk would be a financial one... Shapiro knows him well.... he fills a need...

Seems like the perfect bridge guy since we're hesitant to make long-term financial commitments and are reluctant to trade prospects.

1. Stroman
2. Lee
3. Estrada
4. Happ
5. Dickey

With Hutchison, Chavez and Sanchez available if one of those guys can't hold up. Would be solid.

we should absolutely do this.

 

[zeke]

Pompey is not a every day player at this point of his career and I am not sure if he is ever going to be

sure he is. he was more valuable per PA than revere even last year.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

we should absolutely do this.

I would trade Dickey still though. That's a lot of money tied up into starting pitching without much in terms of bull pen. I'd rather have Chavez/Hutchison as my 5th starter/ long reliever duo, get a little something out of Dickey and use that money to do a little something to bolster the bullpen.

If Chavez and Hutchison aren't good enough, then just get someone at the deadline. Combined, they should at least be good enough to get us to that point.

But I do like Lee on a one (maybe two) year deal regardless.

 

[Scion]

Petit would be interesting. Though I'm a little concerned about teh sudden and dramatic decrease in strikeouts last year (and seeming shift away from throwing his slider)

Stammen could be cost-effective coming off a torn arm muscle (at least it's not an elbow problem.

Again, the lack of K's is a little bit of a red flag, but he's GB heavy which would play well with this team's defence, and he keeps it in the park.

Also not a fan of this:

That's some BJ Ryan mechanics going on with his pitching arm.



Joe Blanton.... ugh. But he does seem to have reinvented himself as a reliever. I may just be letting my distaste for him as a mediocre starter who got waaaaay too much credit because "he wins games" be coloring my opinion.

I really like Blanton, he's put up good peripherals as a SP (albeit with horrible earned run averages) the last few years and was terrific as a reliever last season. So he provides some versatility, strikeout ability and should come cheap.

 

[Discoverer]

sure he is. he was more valuable per PA than revere even last year.

Exactly... Pompey doesn't have the flashy average, but I see him as a better player than Ben Revere, not just going forward, but right now.

 

[Habaneros]

we should absolutely do this.

I can't see the Jays giving him(Lee) 1 yr at 15 -18 million....likely what he will get

 

[Scion]

I've said it since it was reported that the Phillies were walking away from Lee, offer him a one year deal with lots of incentives. If he performs you get your money's worth, and if not it's a minor commitment that won't hurt you.