Blue Jays Discussion: Winter Meetings: Because there's no more fitting time to talk baseball than December

[Habaneros]

Jays should go after Antonio Bastardo

 

[Leaf Rocket]

You mean Dansby Swanson? Wow if that's true. Inciarte had a solid season last year and is probably a decent starting OF. And then Swanson was the #1 pick last year.

Man, that's sooooo Dave Stewart.

Wanna explain this stewart thing?

 

[Revolt]

Is it April yet?

On another note, how much do you guys think Cliff Lee will get?

 

[LeafSadist]

Never go full Dave Stewart.

 

[Habaneros]

Is it April yet?

On another note, how much do you guys think Cliff Lee will get?

About 15 teams are interested in him..so a lot more $ than most think ..

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[hockeywiz542]

According to the Toronto Star, the Toronto Blue Jays might be getting close to signing a relief pitcher from the free agent ranks.

http://www.thestar.com/sports/baseb...nding-his-way-at-winter-meetings-griffin.html

Reading between the lines of his other tiptoeing, it sounded like the Jays were getting close to signing a relief pitcher from the free agent ranks. The market for relievers has been evolving rapidly, and Atkins said he was closer to adding someone than he had been when he arrived here.

“I’m not going to comment on specific players that we’re targeting, but we really feel good about progress we’ve made here in the time that we’ve had,” Atkins said. “I’m excited about (Tuesday night) and (Wednesday) morning and we’re a little bit closer every day to making the team a little bit better.”

Atkins, the former Indians vice-president of player personnel, was asked what type of pitchers he preferred, what was his preferred repertoire in an attempt to maybe narrow down the scope.

“I like the type of pitchers the Toronto Blue Jays like,” Atkins said, somewhat redundantly. “So I want to be collaborative in thinking about that. Just my input is a part of it, but two things that come to mind are durability and outs. I like pitchers that can get outs and can take the ball.”

 

[The Nemesis]

Wanna explain this stewart thing?

Dave Stewart (D-Backs GM. Also may be remembered as a one-time Blue Jay and Jays pitching coach in the 90s) has a history of saying/doing things that come across as particularly dumb. Particularly since becoming GM of the Diamondbacks he's basically thumbed his nose at any and all advances in baseball knowledge over the last 20 years or so, last year he dumped a well-regarded prospect who was a 1st rounder not more than a year or two prior for what amounted to absolutely nothing (it was basically a minor league salary dump they didn't need), and generally has made a variety of moves that seem shortsighted or outright foolish, especially for a Diamondbacks team that hasn't been anywhere near ready to contend for a while.

the tl;dr version is that Dave Stewart has proven himself to be an awful GM so far, making multiple puzzling comments and moves that have you questioning whether he actually pays attention to what he's doing. You can probably just google something like "dave stewart terrible GM" and get a good cross-section of all the things that have made his name synonymous with "oh my god what is he thinking?"

I believe you haven't seen people making fun, and speaking of Pompey you go back and check it one more time what I said

Quote " Pompey is not a every day player at this point of his career and I am not sure if he is ever going to be" - so I am not sure what's the big fuss here

and I said in response that it was it was presumptuous to claim that you think he might never be an everyday player in MLB given that he's just 22/23 right now. That was all. I disagreed with your assertion and said so. To which you unnecessarily responded "we'll see who's laughing" when the season starts. If anything, you were the one who was making a fuss out of this by being unnecessarily combative to someone challenging your opinion.

I am not sure what right you have to judge any body's intelligence and laugh at some one's comments, instead of giving logical answer

never said that. Never said I was judging anyone's intelligence. never said I or anyone else had no interest in giving a logical answer. Simply said that some of us get frustrated over answering the same awful arguments time and time again. It's 2015 and this community and people's baseball knowledge in general has progressed enough that we shouldn't have to keep refuting arguments that use pitcher wins or RBIs or compare things in hockey terms or do any of the other things that have time and time again proven to be ineffective, baseless arguments or pointless to the discussion. At no point was that an indictment of any particular poster's intelligence.

And if some of you are so sick and tired and frustrated of people posting (other then few of you) then you should limit the members and just allow who would agree with your views all the time (I am referring to the bolded part), but justifying making fun of other posters is not justified. Obviously not every one is as intelligent as you guys are

That's your takeaway? Again:

#1) I'm not advocating making fun of other posters. That's against the site rules. But if someone makes a poorly formed argument, there's nothing prohibiting it from being torn to shreds.

#2) I'm not making comments about other peoples' intelligence. Never said anything remotely like that. The only one that's brought that up here is you.

#3) It's not about limiting who posts. That was also never part of this discussion until you brought it up.

 

[JS19]

Wanna explain this stewart thing?

Arizona-Atlanta trade.

Shelby Miller to D-Backs for Inciarte, Blair and Swanson

Swanson being the #1 overall pick traded.

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[Ciao]

I don't agree that there has been no flaming, nor that any flaming is well-deserved.

I think there's been a lot of personal attacks on this board lately. Most of them are to the effect "if you say that", "if you disagree with me", or "if you say that again for the umpteenth time" then "you really don't know anything about baseball" or "you don't know as much about baseball as I do." I haven't been flamed, but I find these attacks diminishing, distasteful and out-of-place.

I don't really care that posters say things that are tiresome to long-time, knowledgeable posters. I appreciate the exchange of ideas but not the diminishing personal attacks on others.

 

[hockeywiz542]

According to the Toronto Star, Jerry Crasnick of ESPN.com spoke to Edwin Encarnacion's agent, Paul Kinzer. He confirmed he met with the team Monday evening and laid down Encarnacion’s conditions moving forward.

http://www.thestar.com/sports/baseb...nding-his-way-at-winter-meetings-griffin.html

NASHVILLE—A debut press briefing on Day 2 of the winter meetings by Blue Jays general manager Ross Atkins lacked clarity, careening wildly toward the opaque.

But give him the benefit of the doubt. Maybe the 42-year-old rookie GM was nervous. Or perhaps he had been over-coached by team president Mark Shapiro in the art of saying little. But the 20-minute session in the team’s suite at the fabulous Opryland Resort, the cradle of country music, had his audience humming Merle Haggard’s “Working Man Blues.”

Regarding Edwin Encarnacion and his sudden demand that a contract extension be in place by opening day or else he will test free agency at the end of the season and not re-sign with the Jays, Jerry Crasnick of ESPN.com spoke to his agent, Paul Kinzer. He confirmed he met with the team Monday evening and laid down Encarnacion’s conditions moving forward. Atkins then commented.

“We’re open and want to work toward players being comfortable, feeling good about the start of their season, and we’ll continue to work towards that,” Atkins said of the Jays’ reaction to the news. “If our phone rings we’re answering it — and working hard to put players in the best environment possible.”

It was pointed out there are 36 position players in the American League that will be making as much or more money than Encarnacion. That list includes Melky Cabrera, Adam LaRoche, Chase Headley, Colby Rasmus, Rusney Castillo and Coco Crisp. Is Encarnacion the 37th most productive player in the league, or is there a way to correct that inequity in a creative way?

“Here’s what I can tell you about our team — we feel really good about 2016 and we’re going to look to make it better,” Atkins responded. “We are very happy to have him on it.”

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[MJ65]

Dave Stewart (D-Backs GM. Also may be remembered as a one-time Blue Jay and Jays pitching coach in the 90s) has a history of saying/doing things that come across as particularly dumb. Particularly since becoming GM of the Diamondbacks he's basically thumbed his nose at any and all advances in baseball knowledge over the last 20 years or so, last year he dumped a well-regarded prospect who was a 1st rounder not more than a year or two prior for what amounted to absolutely nothing (it was basically a minor league salary dump they didn't need), and generally has made a variety of moves that seem shortsighted or outright foolish, especially for a Diamondbacks team that hasn't been anywhere near ready to contend for a while.

the tl;dr version is that Dave Stewart has proven himself to be an awful GM so far, making multiple puzzling comments and moves that have you questioning whether he actually pays attention to what he's doing. You can probably just google something like "dave stewart terrible GM" and get a good cross-section of all the things that have made his name synonymous with "oh my god what is he thinking?"



and I said in response that it was it was presumptuous to claim that you think he might never be an everyday player in MLB given that he's just 22/23 right now. That was all. I disagreed with your assertion and said so. To which you unnecessarily responded "we'll see who's laughing" when the season starts. If anything, you were the one who was making a fuss out of this by being unnecessarily combative to someone challenging your opinion.



never said that. Never said I was judging anyone's intelligence. never said I or anyone else had no interest in giving a logical answer. Simply said that some of us get frustrated over answering the same awful arguments time and time again. It's 2015 and this community and people's baseball knowledge in general has progressed enough that we shouldn't have to keep refuting arguments that use pitcher wins or RBIs or compare things in hockey terms or do any of the other things that have time and time again proven to be ineffective, baseless arguments or pointless to the discussion. At no point was that an indictment of any particular poster's intelligence.



That's your takeaway? Again:

#1) I'm not advocating making fun of other posters. That's against the site rules. But if someone makes a poorly formed argument, there's nothing prohibiting it from being torn to shreds.

#2) I'm not making comments about other peoples' intelligence. Never said anything remotely like that. The only one that's brought that up here is you.

#3) It's not about limiting who posts. That was also never part of this discussion until you brought it up.

Thanks - I rest my case, peace

 

[MJ65]

According to the Toronto Star, Jerry Crasnick of ESPN.com spoke to Edwin Encarnacion's agent, Paul Kinzer. He confirmed he met with the team Monday evening and laid down Encarnacion’s conditions moving forward.

http://www.thestar.com/sports/baseb...nding-his-way-at-winter-meetings-griffin.html

I really do not understand what EE is up to, but again that's not the end of the world

 

[tp71]

I really do not understand what EE is up to, but again that's not the end of the world

Not when you got Rowdy "Roddy" Tellez in the minors!

 

[MJ65]

I don't agree that there has been no flaming, nor that any flaming is well-deserved.

I think there's been a lot of personal attacks on this board lately. Most of them are to the effect "if you say that", "if you disagree with me", or "if you say that again for the umpteenth time" then "you really don't know anything about baseball" or "you don't know as much about baseball as I do." I haven't been flamed, but I find these attacks diminishing, distasteful and out-of-place.

I don't really care that posters say things that are tiresome to long-time, knowledgeable posters. I appreciate the exchange of ideas but not the diminishing personal attacks on others.

I totally agree with you and posters literally laugh at you

 

[Mitchy]

Wanna explain this stewart thing?

Dave Stewart is the GM of the Arizona Diamondbacks. Dave Stewart, to be blunt, is also a massive idiot.

 

[The Nemesis]

I really do not understand what EE is up to, but again that's not the end of the world

Seems like it's some combination of:

a) using the deadline to put a little heat on Jays management to give him an extension. Maybe thinking he can tell the front office "if you don't move to lock me up now, I'll walk" in the hopes that they give him a little more because they're nervous or because they won't have as much time to go back and forth with his camp to negotiate down to a "fair" compromise deal.

and

b) Lots of players don't like distractions in-season. So he'll flatly say now that he won't discuss his contract at all within the season, thus allowing him to focus on baseball alone, and leaving his agent/team management to either just work on it prior to the season, or wait until after the season is over but before he hits the FA market.

I recall seeing it before in baseball and other sports. It's probably nothing to be concerned about.

 

[MJ65]

No, there was an influx of comments where people applied their hockey knowledge as if it means the true for baseball. Some of them commented on contract values as if it were NHL contract values, same goes for age etc. 23 is remarkably young for an MLB talent. Most guys don't even get on the roster until their mid/late-20s. Look at Donaldson for instance, 2013 he managed to hit 24 HR/93 RBI at age 27, and two years later he's the AL MVP.

All I said was " Pompey is not ready for every day duty as yet, and I am not sure if he will be"

- People laughed at me
- Some suggested that I am writing off Pompey (when I said I am not sure)
- And your response was this is baseball not NHL

And I am really puzzled

 

[JS19]

All I said was " Pompey is not ready for every day duty as yet, and I am not sure if he will be"

- People laughed at me
- Some suggested that I am writing off Pompey (when I said I am not sure)
- And your response was this is baseball not NHL

And I am really puzzled

The bolded in conjunction to the quote you commented is what I was getting at: it's far too early to judge Pompey.

 

[tp71]

Well, if you're going to act like and make comments which make it seem like you don't know anything about baseball, people are going to call you (using this generally) out on it. Contrary to popular belief, your opinion can be wrong.

Maybe you could use it as an opportunity to teach instead of ridicule?

 

[MJ65]

Seems like it's some combination of:

a) using the deadline to put a little heat on Jays management to give him an extension. Maybe thinking "if you don't move to lock me up now, I'll walk" in the hopes that they give him a little more because they're nervous or because they won't have as much time to go back and forth with his camp to negotiate down to a "fair" compromise deal.

and

b) Lots of players don't like distractions in-season. So he'll flatly say now that he won't discuss his contract at all within the season, thus allowing him to focus on baseball alone, and leaving his agent/team management to either just work on it prior to the season, or wait until after the season is over but before he hits the FA market.

I recall seeing it before in baseball and other sports. It's probably nothing to be concerned about.

I totally agree with your 1st assumption, it's a pressure tactic more then any thing

 

[tp71]

Dave Stewart is the GM of the Arizona Diamondbacks. Dave Stewart, to be blunt, is also a massive idiot.

If there were every a spot where an hf hockey line of "Never go full Holmgren" would be appropriate for baseball..."Never go full Stewart"

 

[MJ65]

The bolded in conjunction to the quote you commented is what I was getting at: it's far too early to judge Pompey.

It's okay - no big deal