Blue Jays Discussion: Winter Discontent II: Discontent Harder

[Discoverer]

He is a hell of a defender and cannot do any worse then Pillar at the plate.

I've been high on Alford for years and I think he's going to end up being a star - a good defender with plenty of speed and an impact bat at the top of the lineup. But... yeah, he definitely can be worse than Pillar at the plate.

It just makes sense to start Alford in Buffalo in 2018. There's no need to rush things. He'll force his way up soon enough.

 

[BlueForever75]

Lol.

Yeah, hard no thanks on Broxton.

As far as the outfield goes, I've settled on signing Cain, signing Dyson (1 yr + TO), and shopping Pillar. Cain in CF, Dyson platoon in LF with Pearce, and Teoscar starting in RF. Eventually, Alford comes up after ~200 PA's in Buffalo, and is the everyday LF. Dyson slides into the 4th OF role.

Cain moves over to a corner in favour of Alford in 19 or 20, depending on how he ages.

The non-Boras free agent OF (Bruce, Cain, to a lesser extent Dyson, Granderson) interest me a lot. Their agents aren't nuts, and will eventually crack and take a team friendly deal (as opposed to telling his clients to wait until the all-star break, or some other non-sense like that). Lots of value.

I wouldn't mind bringing in Granderson and Cain then trading Pillar. Granderson on a one year deal. Platoon Granderson and Pearce in LF and put Hernandez in RF with Cain in CF. Move Pillar with something else for a starter.

 

[BlueForever75]

I've been high on Alford for years and I think he's going to end up being a star - a good defender with plenty of speed and an impact bat at the top of the lineup. But... yeah, he definitely can be worse than Pillar at the plate.

It just makes sense to start Alford in Buffalo in 2018. There's no need to rush things. He'll force his way up soon enough.

Just frees up another trade chip in Pillar to be able to fill hole in rotation. Pillar packaged with a mid level prospect or two can probably fetch you someone like Salazar from Cleveland.

 

[zeke]

I love Alford but he might be the closest thing to a sell-high prospect we have.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Just frees up another trade chip in Pillar to be able to fill hole in rotation. Pillar packaged with a mid level prospect or two can probably fetch you someone like Salazar from Cleveland.

Value is off. Plus zero motivation from the counterparty.

I love Alford but he might be the closest thing to a sell-high prospect we have.

Based on injury?

 

[zeke]

Based on injury?

nah. just the only significant guy there whose numbers might not match his rep.

 

[Garlando]

LA Angels struck a minors pact with infielder Jose Miguel Fernandez, Chris Cotillo of SB Nation tweets. Would have been interested in him at that cost as a lottery ticket depth piece. A star in his native Cuba, he came to the states last year and posted a healthy .306/.366/.498 with 16 home runs 369 Double-A plate appearances. 6.5 BB% and 8.9 K% with a .192 ISO, good for a 142 wRC+.

Also, the Dodgers, White Sox, and Royals just completed a 3 team deal. Looks like the Royals are hitting the reset button by moving their RPs.

 

[Woodman19]

I'll take Salazar. We have an abundance of pen arms and could be a good time to sell high on some if it means a mid rotation arm with upside to slot in the rotation with 3 years control.

 

[Discoverer]

nah. just the only significant guy there whose numbers might not match his rep.

He's coming off a 135 wRC+ in AA. With good CF defense and lots of speed, I'm not sure how that performance doesn't match his reputation as a Top 50-ish prospect.

The only thing I can think of as far as actual performance is that you don't think he can maintain the excellent strikeout rate he showed last year and that he'll have significant swing-and-miss issues in the majors. If that's the case (along with the injury concerns), I definitely agree there's plenty of risk. But the performance has definitely been there.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

I think the sell high based on hype v. performance prospect for the system is currently Warmoth, simply due to being a first round pick, and having not touched A-ball yet. Which of course runs the risk of blowing up in one's face.

Alford is an odd choice, independent of health.

 

[Cor]

any jays rumors

common trades

etc.

 

[BlueForever75]

Value is off. Plus zero motivation from the counterparty.



Based on injury?

Value is off? A gold glove center fielder in Pillar for a pitcher that they are trying to sell coming off a bad season. When you say zero motivation from counterparty, the Indians are said to be looking for relievers and/or outfield help. Sounds like there is a match there for me. We need pitching, they need an outfielder.

 

[zeke]

He's coming off a 135 wRC+ in AA. With good CF defense and lots of speed, I'm not sure how that performance doesn't match his reputation as a Top 50-ish prospect.

The only thing I can think of as far as actual performance is that you don't think he can maintain the excellent strikeout rate he showed last year and that he'll have significant swing-and-miss issues in the majors. If that's the case (along with the injury concerns), I definitely agree there's plenty of risk. But the performance has definitely been there.

Hey I love the guy and always have. I'll pat myself on the back something furious if he turns out after defending him when everybody wrote him off. But that 135wrc+ in AA puts him in a category of prospect that is very hit and miss.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Value is off? A gold glove center fielder in Pillar for a pitcher that they are trying to sell coming off a bad season. When you say zero motivation from counterparty, the Indians are said to be looking for relievers and/or outfield help. Sounds like there is a match there for me. We need pitching, they need an outfielder.

Yes, value is off. Salazar, even after his bad season, holds more. Materially more, as a matter of fact.

They also do not need an outfielder, or at least an outfielder matching Pillar's skillset (i.e. 0 Hit, plus defense in CF). They have four players capable of playing CF currently on their 25-man roster.

 

[Anthrax442]

any jays rumors

common trades

etc.

Plenty of stuff happening, they are just waiting for Stroman to okay it all

 

[justafan22]

Pitchers and catcher are around 6 weeks or so away.

Worst offseason in jays history

 

[TF97]

Pitchers and catcher are around 6 weeks or so away.

Worst offseason in jays history

I agree. Really is terrible that they didn’t jump on one of the awful contracts given out to relievers.

 

[BlueForever75]

Pitchers and catcher are around 6 weeks or so away.

Worst offseason in jays history

Nothing is happening overall. This could play in the Jays favor. Players looking for deals may need to lower their asking price. We may be able to get more reinforcements for the budget we have.

Imagine we get Bruce, Granderson, Nunez and Lackey for the same price we would have gotten Bruce, Goins and Lackey for!!!! If players are receiving offers but no one is signing, this tells me they are being low-balled. So they are waiting for better offers.

When the time comes, the Jays may need to offer a half a million to a million more for a player for them to come here. But if it means 2-3 million less then what the Jays originally thought they were worth...it may be a bargain.

 

[BlueForever75]

I agree. Really is terrible that they didn’t jump on one of the awful contracts given out to relievers.

Worst money spent in baseball!!!! Glad we didn't.

 

[phillipmike]

The off-season leading up to the 2014 season was worse. After the Dickey and Marlins deals did nothing for us in 2013 we only added Navarro on a 2 year deal on December 2nd. Made no other major league moves that off season of consequence. Also came with the Ervin Santana flub in spring training. In my opinion if Santana signed then we would have been in playoffs in 2014.

 

[BlueForever75]

The off-season leading up to the 2014 season was worse. After the Dickey and Marlins deals did nothing for us in 2013 we only added Navarro on a 2 year deal on December 2nd. Made no other major league moves that off season of consequence. Also came with the Ervin Santana flub in spring training. In my opinion if Santana signed then we would have been in playoffs in 2014.

I don't think that this off season will be that bad. All of baseball is taking it slow. My prediction is that once one move is made there will be 2-3 other ones that follow in short order for the Jays.

They are playing the waiting game like every other team in baseball. I think it will work out for them. Its my prediction.

 

[phillipmike]

I don't think that this off season will be that bad. All of baseball is taking it slow. My prediction is that once one move is made there will be 2-3 other ones that follow in short order for the Jays.

They are playing the waiting game like every other team in baseball. I think it will work out for them. Its my prediction.

For sure. For the record i agree with you 100%. Its a slow moving off-season and i expect the Jays to make at least 1 impact move maybe 2. It will come - this wont come close to being one of the worst off seasons in Jays history (for the record i really think justafan22 was just joking).

I remember the off-seasons of signing Tanyon Strutze, Mike Bodrick, Royce Clayton, and Toma Ohka to fill major spots in your lineup and rotation. Nothing will come close to those awful off-seasons from 1995 to 2005 and 2008 to 2009.

 

[Discoverer]

I'll pat myself on the back something furious if he turns out after defending him when everybody wrote him off.

I don't remember anything close to that happening, unless you mean before he committed to playing baseball when people were questioning whether he would ever give up football. Otherwise, he's basically dominated since day one.

 

[Kurtz]

Hey I love the guy and always have. I'll pat myself on the back something furious if he turns out after defending him when everybody wrote him off. But that 135wrc+ in AA puts him in a category of prospect that is very hit and miss.

Zeke, if you're going to pat yourself on the back if Alford succeeds...but also pat yourself on the back if he fails (sell high candidate), then...you really might have a future in US politics.

 

[MJ65]

I am not very clear what's the game plan and what direction we are going in

To compete or to rebuild or both