Winnipeg Sun: Jets, Mark Chipman, call for help as attendance decreases

[OG6ix]

Anddddd now you know why the NHL isn't rushing back to Quebec city. If Edmonton has times of struggling there is no way Winnipeg, Quebec City, Hamilton, Toronto2 won't have the same problem. Especially a second team in Toronto when the city isn't much of a hockey town but more so a town that loves the leafs from a hockey standpoint.

 

[GKJ]

Anddddd now you know why the NHL isn't rushing back to Quebec city. If Edmonton has times of struggling there is no way Winnipeg, Quebec City, Hamilton, Toronto2 won't have the same problem. Especially a second team in Toronto when the city isn't much of a hockey town but more so a town that loves the leafs from a hockey standpoint.

It’s not a Quebec or small market thing. It’s a product thing. If the market doesn’t believe in the product, they’re not going to keep consuming it. Philadelphia ran around for umpteen years about being the #1 hockey city in America and they’re giving tickets away to be half-full right now.

 

[jetsmooseice]

It's funny that for the longest time after the Jets 1.0 left, Winnipeg really only had the Moose - and in the years since they came back, they have had the Jets 2.0, the Moose playing out the same building (ultimately immaterial considering the realities of the AHL in this current age, but still relevant to the discussion at hand) and the Ice coming and now probably going. Couple that with a good chunk of the teams in the East Division of the MJHL, and it's clear that after years of having only really one option in town, Winnipeg now has three major ones all fighting for a small slice of the pie.

The Winnipeg sports market is extremely crowded relative to the size of the city. Americans are unaware of this because several of the teams here don't have a profile in the US, but they each take up a slice of the sports dollar. This is not a situation where the Jets are the only game in town.

First and foremost, the storied Winnipeg Blue Bombers of the CFL are a major draw. They pull in close to 30,000 fans a game, get a ton of corporate support and they are typically front-page news, especially with their recent success in a championship-starved city. They are a big deal in this town.

Then you have the other hockey teams, the Manitoba Moose of the AHL which still pulls in a few thousand fans a game, as well as the Winnipeg ICE of the WHL which has its own growing fanbase.

Then there are some other teams like the Winnipeg Goldeyes (independent minor league baseball), Valour FC (Canadian Premier League soccer) and the new Canadian Elite Basketball League team, the Winnipeg Sea Bears. There are also, as mentioned, two junior A hockey teams and two major universities with their sports teams, but those don't figure too prominently in terms of the dollars they soak up.

The point is that for a city of 750,000, Winnipeg supports a lot. Probably more relative to size than anywhere else in North America. So the Jets can't be too lazy with their marketing and expect the dollars to keep rolling in indefinitely just because they're the Jets.

 

[OG6ix]

It’s not a Quebec or small market thing. It’s a product thing. If the market doesn’t believe in the product, they’re not going to keep consuming it. Philadelphia ran around for umpteen years about being the #1 hockey city in America and they’re giving tickets away to be half-full right now.

Its about a corporate base ... especially if ticket prices increase (which they always do overtime). Sure when the team is down there are people who get off the bandwagon but this is the only team they have (your example of Philly is different because they have a NFL, MLB, NBA, and MLS team). There's a reason why this team left the NHL and it was rising cost and salaries.

 

[BMN]

Anddddd now you know why the NHL isn't rushing back to Quebec city. If Edmonton has times of struggling there is no way Winnipeg, Quebec City, Hamilton, Toronto2 won't have the same problem. Especially a second team in Toronto when the city isn't much of a hockey town but more so a town that loves the leafs from a hockey standpoint.

Toronto2 is a not an apples-to-apples comparison. Even a divided Toronto presents a greater ceiling for corporate support than Winnipeg.

Re: my original question, it does seem like this campaign is hitting the wrong notes (so far anyway) but it seems consistent with the footing the team planted from the moment the goalie helmet statues were stashed to a side hall at Philips Arena...

When the relocation was announced, it was one of those "Gary Bettman takes everyone's bullets" days. Atlanta fans mad he "didn't do anything" while the Coyotes were saved. But Winnipeg fans mad too because instead of making it a celebratory event, he gives his infamous "only way this is gonna work" lecture.

Well, now we see why he gave that lecture: He probably had enough conversations with Chipman to know that was what his new owner felt was going to be necessary to say. Honestly, the flaw I see in this campaign is that they don't just throw Bettman out to make a veiled threat again, like a red cape to a charging matador, to try to make prospective ticket buyers forget any dissatisfaction they may have with the org.

That said, it puts a little juice into the Winnipeg-Vegas series, doesn't it?

 

[cbcwpg]

According to Chipman they have lost 3,000 STHs since Covid hit. And of the 3,000... 2,000 season tickets were from businesses, and 1,000 were joe fan.

So they definitely need the business community to come on board again, but it is taking time for these businesses to recover from Covid.

Of note, there are only 8 teams out of 32 at 100% capacity.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

According to Chipman they have lost 3,000 STHs since Covid hit. And of the 3,000... 2,000 season tickets were from businesses, and 1,000 were joe fan.

So they definitely need the business community to come on board again, but it is taking time for these businesses to recover from Covid.

Of note, there are only 8 teams out of 32 at 100% capacity.

Winnipeg also has the smallest capacity in the league. They need to be selling out.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

My biggest gripe about the transaction back in 2011 is that the Thrashers were never available for sale locally. They were on the market specifically to be relocated, because the ASG is the worst ownership group in the history of professional sports.

There's no shortage of business support or wealthy individuals in the ATL market. Case in point, Tom Glavine briefly mentioned putting together an ownership group, then found out that they weren't for sale to to local ownership. To say that they didn't have a local owner implies a lack of local interest, which is a tired and BS trope. They were not for sale to a local group, full stop.

As has been noted elsewhere, it wouldn't have mattered if a local group could have come together to buy the Thrashers. There was exactly one place for that team to play, and ASG had rolled up the welcome mat, locked the door and barred it shut and put booby traps all around to be safe.

In 2012, there was zero sign the Hawks were going to be put up for sale just 2 years later. Also, any "we could have a new NHL arena in Alpharetta" idea wasn't in anyone's mind, much less advanced to the point of drawing up plans, finding land, getting permits, dealing with complaints and any lawsuits, and ground broken on the project - things that would have taken ~3 years at a minimum, and could have easily taken 5-6 or more. [And, if/when the Hawks were sold, suddenly all that work gets shelved because why not just go back to Phillips? is on the table, and I don't think Alpharetta would have liked to have spent millions of dollars on a potential arena only to hear yeah, thanks, but we're going back to Phillips, so long and thank for all the fish.]

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

Of note, there are only 8 teams out of 32 at 100% capacity.

Looking at capacity and comparing it to other teams shows nothing of value. Need to look at the required number of sold tickets in order to be financially viable. Winnipeg is well short of selling out in the smallest arena in the NHL (discounting Arizona's temporary home at Mullet Arena). Even a team like Columbus doesn't need to sell out to be financially viable. They are in all likelihood still making good money at 90% capacity. A team like Winnipeg needs to be sold out with a good, deep playoff run in order to end up in the black.

 

[Devils 3silverones]

Coyotes fans deserve to get a few shots in after all the crap they've gone through, lol.

They have lost more than the rink in AZ almost claims to hold... And 3000 more than the zero yet upcoming built garbage heap in tempe.
Perspective is key here.

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

They have lost more than the rink in AZ almost claims to hold... And 3000 more than the zero yet upcoming built garbage heap in tempe.
Perspective is key here.

Oh, there are a litany of responses I could write in response, but punching down is mean, and punching up is comedy.

And I'm somewhat optimistic about the Tempe project's chances, unless it gets hit by a meteor or something during construction, which would be par for the course for the Coyotes luck.

 

[Jets4Life]

I’ve been saying for years that Winnipeg is not a major league market. Now that the honeymoon period is well over, it’s become obvious. It would be a shame if the great fans up in Manitoba lost their team yet again, but it’s certainly trending in that direction.

You have been saying a lot of things for years:

-hockey is dying in Canada
-MLS is going to eclipse the NHL soon
-Boston is losing interest in hockey

If you think the Jets are going to move away anytime soon, you are sadly mistaken.

The Winnipeg business community has really got to come through. I have faith in them.

 

[Jets4Life]

Oh, there are a litany of responses I could write in response, but punching down is mean, and punching up is comedy.

And I'm somewhat optimistic about the Tempe project's chances, unless it gets hit by a meteor or something during construction, which would be par for the course for the Coyotes luck.

If Arizona wins the draft lottery and Bedard comes to town, I ahve a feeling that any opposition to the proposed arena will come crumbling down.

 

[jetsmooseice]

If you think the Jets are going to move away anytime soon, you are sadly mistaken.

The Winnipeg business community has really got to come through. I have faith in them.

Without question. If ticket sales was all it took, then the team never would have left in '96. The ask was far, far greater than that (new arena, new owner willing to absorb indefinite losses in a much more uncertain financial environment in the pre-cap era).

 

[Devils 3silverones]

Oh, there are a litany of responses I could write in response, but punching down is mean, and punching up is comedy.

And I'm somewhat optimistic about the Tempe project's chances, unless it gets hit by a meteor or something during construction, which would be par for the course for the Coyotes luck.

Then stick in your weight class kiddo. Dreaming for the stats seems about right.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Then stick in your weight class kiddo. Dreaming for the stats seems about right.

Let's all move on and get back to the damn topic. No one wants to see you two measure your dicks.

 

[Jets4Life]

When the relocation was announced, it was one of those "Gary Bettman takes everyone's bullets" days. Atlanta fans mad he "didn't do anything" while the Coyotes were saved. But Winnipeg fans mad too because instead of making it a celebratory event, he gives his infamous "only way this is gonna work" lecture.

I was in Winnipeg when the return of the Jets was announced. Absolutely nobody was "angry" about what Bettman said. This is simply incorrect. That is just the reality of the situation.. Unfortunately, numerous factors ahve come into play over the last several years that has hindered small market Canadian cities (especially Winnipeg).

- the Canadian dollar has fallen from being at part with the US dollar in 2011, to it's current worth of 0.75 cents.
-COVID
-cost of NHL tickets and concessions is pricing the average citizen out
-TNSE taking it's fan base for granted
-The business community not purchasing enough tickets
-competition from other sporting leagues that are within the budget of the average citizen

For over a decade, pretty much every Canadian city was selling out all of their games...however this began to change in the post-COVID era. TNSE deserves a lot of criticism here, in the way they have handled concerns and complaints of their client base. Going forward, they can't have an attitude of taking their season ticket base for granted.

I sure hope the community can step up to the plate. As it stands, there are absolutely no plans for the Jets to relocate, or for that matter, are in any kind of financial peril. However, TNSE will have to reach out to Manitobans and create more goodwill in the community, to return to selling out the arena.

 

[Jets4Life]

I think its fair to say as long as Jets have committed ownership group they are not moving but at the same time, QC getting a team is probably unlikely.

Unfortunately, I agree. I would have loved to see the return of the Nordiques, but as it currently stands, it's highly unlikely.

he should have folded/suspend the franchise instead going back to winnipeg...

Yes, I am sure the owners would be really cool with doing something that would devalue the worth of the 29 remaining teams.

 

[Jets4Life]

I don't disagree with this, but where Bettman (AND then-NBA commissioner David Stern and both BOGs, for that matter) deserve A LOT of blame was completely and abjectly failing to properly vet the Atlanta $pirit Septocluster™ before approving the sale, especially after the dishonest crap they pulled (in collusion with AOL/Time Warner) in gaining the package to begin with (which eventually cost AOLTW hundreds of millions of dollars in the resulting lawsuit by David McDavid over said shenanigans).

The NHL has a very poor record of vetting potential owners. Bruce McNall, Peter Pocklington, Norm Green, Jim Spanos and the Islanders debacle. I heard that the potential owner wanting to move the Penguins to KC ended up doing some time at club Fed recently.

 

[NextBigThing]

A few years ago Winnipeg couldn’t even sell out some playoff games. The barn might be half empty this year.

 

[Jets4Life]

A few years ago Winnipeg couldn’t even sell out some playoff games. The barn might be half empty this year.

Still going on about lies you were spreading (that were easily refuted at the time) during the 2018 playoffs?

Speaking of which:

 

[OG6ix]

Toronto2 is a not an apples-to-apples comparison. Even a divided Toronto presents a greater ceiling for corporate support than Winnipeg.

Re: my original question, it does seem like this campaign is hitting the wrong notes (so far anyway) but it seems consistent with the footing the team planted from the moment the goalie helmet statues were stashed to a side hall at Philips Arena...

When the relocation was announced, it was one of those "Gary Bettman takes everyone's bullets" days. Atlanta fans mad he "didn't do anything" while the Coyotes were saved. But Winnipeg fans mad too because instead of making it a celebratory event, he gives his infamous "only way this is gonna work" lecture.

Well, now we see why he gave that lecture: He probably had enough conversations with Chipman to know that was what his new owner felt was going to be necessary to say. Honestly, the flaw I see in this campaign is that they don't just throw Bettman out to make a veiled threat again, like a red cape to a charging matador, to try to make prospective ticket buyers forget any dissatisfaction they may have with the org.

That said, it puts a little juice into the Winnipeg-Vegas series, doesn't it?

Hockey is just not as strong in the GTA as it was in say the 90s. A ton of diversity in both people and now sports teams/sports. I see more NFL jerseys than leafs jerseys. Now outside of the GTA and pockets within the GTA it's a different story. Rural southern ontario is very much still hockey centric.

 

[GreenHornet]

The NHL has a very poor record of vetting potential owners. Bruce McNall, Peter Pocklington, Norm Green, Jim Spanos and the Islanders debacle. I heard that the potential owner wanting to move the Penguins to KC ended up doing some time at club Fed recently.

IIRC, didn't Nelson Skalbania also do time in the clink in British Columbia a while back?

 

[kaiser matias]

IIRC, didn't Nelson Skalbania also do time in the clink in British Columbia a while back?

He was convicted but not jailed. So partial credit there.

 

[Hynh]

The NHL has a very poor record of vetting potential owners. Bruce McNall, Peter Pocklington, Norm Green, Jim Spanos and the Islanders debacle. I heard that the potential owner wanting to move the Penguins to KC ended up doing some time at club Fed recently.

The NHL didn't really have a choice when it came to Pocklington.