Winnipeg Sun: Jets, Mark Chipman, call for help as attendance decreases

[gstommylee]

bettman should have stood up to keep the thrashers in atlanta or move to them houston...

the league made a big mistake in bringing the NHL back to winnipeg....

And who was going to own them in houston that wasn't les Alexander and where were they going to play at...

 

[Roadrage]

bettman should have stood up to keep the thrashers in atlanta or move to them houston...

the league made a big mistake in bringing the NHL back to winnipeg....

What was Bettman to do? Only 1 suitable arena in the area and the owners locked them out from playing there. Owners bought Hawks, Thrashers, and Phillips Arena but didn't really want the Thrashers and only did in order to purchase the other 2. Basically threw the keys onto Bettman's desk and walked away. There was less then 4 months until training camp for the upcoming season as well. Don't think Les Alexander wanted anyone else in Houston to use up those dates at the Toyota Center either. Basically it was Winnipeg or fold/suspend the franchise.

 

[sawchuk1971]

What was Bettman to do? Only 1 suitable arena in the area and the owners locked them out from playing there. Owners bought Hawks, Thrashers, and Phillips Arena but didn't really want the Thrashers and only did in order to purchase the other 2. Basically threw the keys onto Bettman's desk and walked away. There was less then 4 months until training camp for the upcoming season as well. Don't think Les Alexander wanted anyone else in Houston to use up those dates at the Toyota Center either. Basically it was Winnipeg or fold/suspend the franchise.

he should have folded/suspend the franchise instead going back to winnipeg...

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

Not living in Winnipeg, I'm curious if the aforementioned video is a savvy marketing strategy. I could see that playing well in the early to mid 2010s when the return of the NHL played into that civic "no one thought we could do it" pride. In 2023, wouldn't you want to sell the "can't miss it, we're on the hunt for the Cup" angle? Esp. for a team that's made the playoffs five years of the past six? It feels like pleading, and not selling.

But again, I don't live there ergo why I'm asking.

Also, all the Coyotes-Jets chirping is silly within the context of the current franchises because their challenges are entirely different from the other.

Hard to say - if you're a big time hockey fan on Twitter or HF, it's going over like a lead balloon.

This is their first big ticket push outside of the honeymoon, and alluding to relocation isn't playing well with the hardcores, many of whom were priced out due to the pandemic, think the team is going in the wrong direction, and hate the St perks.

But i don't think that's the audience ownership is aiming at with this campaign. They're focusing on businesses and more casual fans.

I've posted about this before, but I don't think in the BOH board, but the Jets realized to maximize ticket revenue, there should be a few empty seats, so they jacked up the prices.

I could get into market spicific stuff too, but it all comes down to value for money of a night out, and the game-day experience and season ticket perks in Winnipeg are really lacking imo.

For example, one of the poster's on hf jets had two season tickets open up next to him. His friends wanted to move into those seats, but the team refused, and now they're down 4 st holder's.

 

[Takuto Maruki]

he should have folded/suspend the franchise instead going back to winnipeg...

[MOD]

Can't get over the types that use this for fuel against Bettman now that the winds of trouble (which are just that, whispering winds) are coming when by all accounts, Bettman made the correct move considering the hand he was given, and made the dummies who believe everything he does is somehow a nationalist conspiracy against Canada happy.

I also get a kick out of the Jets-Coyotes sniping, but more so from the Yotes fan end, considering how many people, Jets fans included, have salivated for years for the end of the Coyotes even after they won the war and got their team back, even though it was someone else's originally. Just desserts, and tbh I don't blame them for the antics at all.

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

Coyotes fans deserve to get a few shots in after all the crap they've gone through, lol.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

I was at a luncheon for Bell CEO Mirko Birbic that was held by the Winnipeg Chamber of Commerce. Mark Chipman opened up the lunch and was really asking the business community of Winnipeg to step up. We have the lowest amount of season tickets purchased by businesses in the NHL. He was pretty forthright that everyone in the room has made a lot of money during and since the pandemic and that they need to step up and spend some of it.

 

[GreenHornet]

What was Bettman to do? Only 1 suitable arena in the area and the owners locked them out from playing there. Owners bought Hawks, Thrashers, and Phillips Arena but didn't really want the Thrashers and only did in order to purchase the other 2. Basically threw the keys onto Bettman's desk and walked away. There was less then 4 months until training camp for the upcoming season as well. Don't think Les Alexander wanted anyone else in Houston to use up those dates at the Toyota Center either. Basically it was Winnipeg or fold/suspend the franchise.

I don't disagree with this, but where Bettman (AND then-NBA commissioner David Stern and both BOGs, for that matter) deserve A LOT of blame was completely and abjectly failing to properly vet the Atlanta $pirit Septocluster™ before approving the sale, especially after the dishonest crap they pulled (in collusion with AOL/Time Warner) in gaining the package to begin with (which eventually cost AOLTW hundreds of millions of dollars in the resulting lawsuit by David McDavid over said shenanigans).

 

[Ted Hoffman]

This is so weird. I was assured repeatedly in 2011 that Winnipeg had real hockey fans who would always support their NHL team and would sell out their arena regardless of how the team was doing, unlike all those fake fans in hockey markets that don't deserve hockey teams.

Almost like even "real" hockey fans in Winnipeg have a breaking point.

The Jets are looking for more corporate support currently only 15% of sst are corporate, compared to the other teams in Canada the low is 45% the high is 85%. Jets are going no where!

You do realize that corporations have significantly more money than individuals, and that when push comes to shove one of those two groups are much more likely to cut the purse strings and focus on essentials ... right?

Cause, if individual support was really all that was needed to keep an NHL team going in a market, Mark Chapman wouldn't be hitting businesses up for money to help out the team.

 

[Takuto Maruki]

Almost like even "real" hockey fans in Winnipeg have a breaking point.

It's funny that for the longest time after the Jets 1.0 left, Winnipeg really only had the Moose - and in the years since they came back, they have had the Jets 2.0, the Moose playing out the same building (ultimately immaterial considering the realities of the AHL in this current age, but still relevant to the discussion at hand) and the Ice coming and now probably going. Couple that with a good chunk of the teams in the East Division of the MJHL, and it's clear that after years of having only really one option in town, Winnipeg now has three major ones all fighting for a small slice of the pie.

 

[Major4Boarding]

I don't disagree with this, but where Bettman (AND then-NBA commissioner David Stern and both BOGs, for that matter) deserve A LOT of blame was completely and abjectly failing to properly vet the Atlanta $pirit Septocluster™ before approving the sale, especially after the dishonest crap they pulled (in collusion with AOL/Time Warner) in gaining the package to begin with (which eventually cost AOLTW hundreds of millions of dollars in the resulting lawsuit by David McDavid over said shenanigans).

A.S.S - (Chef's kiss). Se magnifique

 

[joelef]

So we’re are the calls to move them team?

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

It's funny that for the longest time after the Jets 1.0 left, Winnipeg really only had the Moose - and in the years since they came back, they have had the Jets 2.0, the Moose playing out the same building (ultimately immaterial considering the realities of the AHL in this current age, but still relevant to the discussion at hand) and the Ice coming and now probably going. Couple that with a good chunk of the teams in the East Division of the MJHL, and it's clear that after years of having only really one option in town, Winnipeg now has three major ones all fighting for a small slice of the pie.

No one on the BoH board knows more about MJHL attendance than me, lol.

I am right in the middle of putting together a brief article on the subject, and the Winnipeg teams are by far the worst in the league when it comes to attendance this year, and play no factor in a saturated hockey market. I'd bet many junior B teams in the province vastly out-draw the Freeze and Blues, and I know for a fact that there are multiple senior hockey teams that are doing laps around them.

Now it's a little unfair to just look at this year, because they were by far the two worst teams in the league, but it appears the Freeze just completely stopped recording attendance at one point to avoid their average dropping below 100/game.

The league average for reported games was right around 500, with Portage, Steinbach and OCN (the Pas), all above 700. (Dauphin was just under this season)

I'm not sure if oversaturation is a problem for the jets specifically, but it's definitely on the board, with the business community especially drawn to cheaper options.

The local Baseball and Football team do gangbuster business, but the soccer team is struggling. We're about to get a basketball team too, so we'll see how they do.

I don't disagree with this, but where Bettman (AND then-NBA commissioner David Stern and both BOGs, for that matter) deserve A LOT of blame was completely and abjectly failing to properly vet the Atlanta $pirit Septocluster™ before approving the sale, especially after the dishonest crap they pulled (in collusion with AOL/Time Warner) in gaining the package to begin with (which eventually cost AOLTW hundreds of millions of dollars in the resulting lawsuit by David McDavid over said shenanigans).

I didn't have a good view/opinion of the ASG during the saga, and yet everything I read about them has only reduced my opinion of them in the subsequent years.

A historically bad ownership group.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

The Jets had one down year and still had 93% attendance, I really don't think it’s fair to even discuss the topic in the same breath as the Coyotes issues.

Just admit there is a double standard and move on dude. No one wants to see your team move.

 

[GreenHornet]

A.S.S - (Chef's kiss). Se magnifique

Honestly, I wish I could say that was intentional, but it wasn't. The name was something originally taken from an old Thrashers board called The Smirkin' Chicken (because that's kind of what the Thrashers logo looked like). Can't remember which poster coined the term, but it was originally the Atlanta $pirit Octocluster™ because there were eight members before Steve Belkin sued the rest of the stinking pile and left it after the whole fiasco with the Hawks signing of Joe Johnson. The new acronym was a happy accident, but an appropriate one, I'd say.

 

[TheLegend]

he should have folded/suspend the franchise instead going back to winnipeg...

The NHL Players Union would like to have a word with you then.

 

[Takuto Maruki]

No one on the BoH board knows more about MJHL attendance than me, lol.

I am right in the middle of putting together a brief article on the subject, and the Winnipeg teams are by far the worst in the league when it comes to attendance this year, and play no factor in a saturated hockey market. I'd bet many junior B teams in the province vastly out-draw the Freeze and Blues, and I know for a fact that there are multiple senior hockey teams that are doing laps around them.

Now it's a little unfair to just look at this year, because they were by far the two worst teams in the league, but it appears the Freeze just completely stopped recording attendance at one point to avoid their average dropping below 100/game.

The league average for reported games was right around 500, with Portage, Steinbach and OCN (the Pas), all above 700. (Dauphin was just under this season)

Yeah, I know that Virden is generally a good draw for people who don't have the ability to drive into Brandon for Wheaties games, but that's really the extent of my knowledge of the MJ.

I'm not sure if oversaturation is a problem for the jets specifically, but it's definitely on the board, with the business community especially drawn to cheaper options.

I think in terms of winter sports, there's probably an element of saturation considering the (at least, high level) amount of teams operating within the area. Though in terms of summer sports...probably less so.

No one wants to see your team move.

I mean...some of us do. More so for the chaos element and the meltdowns this board would have considering all that has gone on.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

The NHL Players Union would like to have a word with you then.

The NHLPA has no say in whether there's expansion or contraction. The bigger issue is how advertisers and league sponsors react, and they generally do not like seeing a league contract because it signals weakness and, like roaches, there's never just one.

 

[Melrose Munch]

Why did you create identical threads within several minutes of each other in BoH and the main NHL talk area with the exact same article but different thread titles. Are you just trying to get as much attention on this topic to shit on the Jets?

People can talk about things. Breathe out.

Going forward Canada is big enough for four or five teams. Toronto, Montréal, Vancouver, Alberta. Maybe one more in the east.

Honestly, it would be just the three. It almost was 25 years ago.

 

[RoyalAir]

What was Bettman to do? Only 1 suitable arena in the area and the owners locked them out from playing there.

At the time, this is what it looked like, yes. But now that the Yotes have been playing out of Mullet, the Arena at Gwinnett (14k) would have been more than suitable for the Thrashers for a few years while they either made their way back to Philips after a Hawks sale, or built a bigger arena in Alpharetta.

But this was all so long ago - pre Mercedes Benz for the Falcons, and Pre SunTrust for the Braves. Now that we've seen what the Braves have done,in particular to bring the product closer to their STHs, I can see how an Alpharetta arena project could be very, very successful.

 

[GKJ]

Usually the best way to maintain public interest is to produce a compelling product.

At the time, this is what it looked like, yes. But now that the Yotes have been playing out of Mullet, the Arena at Gwinnett (14k) would have been more than suitable for the Thrashers for a few years while they either made their way back to Philips after a Hawks sale, or built a bigger arena in Alpharetta.

But this was all so long ago - pre Mercedes Benz for the Falcons, and Pre SunTrust for the Braves. Now that we've seen what the Braves have done,in particular to bring the product closer to their STHs, I can see how an Alpharetta arena project could be very, very successful.

The reason why Mullett “works” is because they were also to amend the facilities there to NHL standards (even though some still question that) and have a viable path to a new building. The arena in Gwinnett was already built and to serve as a multi-purpose building which may not have been possible, especially given they did not have a path to a new building nor did they even have an owner willing to own the team there much less sit through that. It would be different if that was all happening today.

 

[GKJ]

Also probably doesn’t help when you treat the people who are paying you like shit



This is very reminiscent of what I experienced with the Flyers. Not necessarily poor customer service, but consumers are going to sniff out when ownership feels they are entitled to your money. When I opted out, they didn’t really do anything to try and get me back other than a couple copy-and-paste emails.

 

[RoyalAir]

Usually the best way to maintain public interest is to produce a compelling product.

The reason why Mullett “works” is because they were also to amend the facilities there to NHL standards (even though some still question that) and have a viable path to a new building. The arena in Gwinnett was already built and to serve as a multi-purpose building which may not have been possible, especially given they did not have a path to a new building nor did they even have an owner willing to own the team there much less sit through that. It would be different if that was all happening today

My biggest gripe about the transaction back in 2011 is that the Thrashers were never available for sale locally. They were on the market specifically to be relocated, because the ASG is the worst ownership group in the history of professional sports.

There's no shortage of business support or wealthy individuals in the ATL market. Case in point, Tom Glavine briefly mentioned putting together an ownership group, then found out that they weren't for sale to to local ownership. To say that they didn't have a local owner implies a lack of local interest, which is a tired and BS trope. They were not for sale to a local group, full stop.

 

[GKJ]

My biggest gripe about the transaction back in 2011 is that the Thrashers were never available for sale locally. They were on the market specifically to be relocated, because the ASG is the worst ownership group in the history of professional sports.

There's no shortage of business support or wealthy individuals in the ATL market. Case in point, Tom Glavine briefly mentioned putting together an ownership group, then found out that they weren't for sale to to local ownership. To say that they didn't have a local owner implies a lack of local interest, which is a tired and BS trope. They were not for sale to a local group, full stop.

If there’s one thing we know about Bettman, is that he knows about anyone who has had a cup of coffee with anyone who has had a passing thought about owning a team. But the bottom line was that without a place to play, there was no viability to a local owner keeping them there. There was no ‘putting a group together,’ Chipman got the team because he was ready on a moment’s notice. And also he kept his mouth shut.

That move happened very quickly, there wasn’t a soul who made themselves known who thought that the day the Thrashers stepped off the ice that it could’ve been the last time. We seen all the hoops Bettman has jumped through in Arizona, if he was resigned to having to relocate the team, it’s because that was the only option he saw.

 

[Fatass]

The Jets are looking for more corporate support currently only 15% of sst are corporate, compared to the other teams in Canada the low is 45% the high is 85%. Jets are going no where!

Jets are in a market where they can’t charge too much for seats or people can’t afford to go. They need more corporate support to balance that out. So they can charge seat prices people can afford.