Winnipeg Sun: Jets, Mark Chipman, call for help as attendance decreases

[The Gr8 Dane]

3rd Baron of Fleet is that a real title??!

 

[Stumbledore]

3rd Baron of Fleet is that a real title??!

Yep. Ask someone to show you how to use Google.

Love your avatar! It's brilliant.

 

[Jets4Life]

Where did you get these numbers?

List of cities in Canada by median household income - Wikipedia

 

[Captain97]

List of cities in Canada by median household income - Wikipedia

That is weird that different levels of governments are offering different numbers. It has to be how households are defined.

 

[MMC]

Will the Rangers being in town give the Jets attendance a boost tonight?

Somewhat, but barely… 11,898 announced for tonight

 

[Yukon Joe]

I can see it happening. Right now it's kind of a two-family pact. But eventually the old men die, and once you factor the differing opinions of several children, many of whom may not have the emotional connection to the city and team that the dads have, and the desire to liquidate a very lucrative asset, and I can see the ownership group falling apart like so many season ticket groups did before it, haha.

I mean I could be wrong and I hope I am. But I don't see the Jets being a multigenerational family dynasty. But now that you mention it, I'd be curious to know Chipman's succession plan.

OK, so Thomson doesn't have an emotional connection to Winnipeg at all. He lives in London England. But my point is that in a family business like his you think in a much longer time-frame.

Chipman does live in Winnipeg, as does his wife and daughters. Why wouldn't they have a emotional connection to the Jets?

 

[aqib]

OK, so Thomson doesn't have an emotional connection to Winnipeg at all. He lives in London England. But my point is that in a family business like his you think in a much longer time-frame.

Chipman does live in Winnipeg, as does his wife and daughters. Why wouldn't they have a emotional connection to the Jets?

Thomson has had ties to Winnipeg gort many years. They owned the Winnipeg Free Press for many years. They also owned a lot of real estate which is how he wound up joining TNSE in the first place.

 

[jetsmooseice]

OK, so Thomson doesn't have an emotional connection to Winnipeg at all. He lives in London England. But my point is that in a family business like his you think in a much longer time-frame.

Chipman does live in Winnipeg, as does his wife and daughters. Why wouldn't they have a emotional connection to the Jets?

I mean, this is speculative but it's not impossible to imagine a scenario where the Jets are a consistent operational money loser or maybe breaking even. If you are one of Chipman's daughters who may not be as personally invested in the family business as dad (again, not an uncommon scenario in family businesses), it is possible that they may want to cash out and realize the huge gains in franchise value so they can take the money and do what they want to do with it.

Or as another scenario, imagine a situation where CLC is pushing 50 years old and considered outdated and in need of replacement. By then the going rate on a NHL arena might be well into the billions and the governments can't or won't build a new one. At that point the heirs of the current owners might want to sell.

Anyway, what I'm saying is that even if Chipman and Thomson might live for another 30 years give or take, at some point they will shuffle off their mortal coil and then there could be some real questions about the continued existence of the team.

 

[ps241]

I mean, this is speculative but it's not impossible to imagine a scenario where the Jets are a consistent operational money loser or maybe breaking even. If you are one of Chipman's daughters who may not be as personally invested in the family business as dad (again, not an uncommon scenario in family businesses), it is possible that they may want to cash out and realize the huge gains in franchise value so they can take the money and do what they want to do with it.

Or as another scenario, imagine a situation where CLC is pushing 50 years old and considered outdated and in need of replacement. By then the going rate on a NHL arena might be well into the billions and the governments can't or won't build a new one. At that point the heirs of the current owners might want to sell.

Anyway, what I'm saying is that even if Chipman and Thomson might live for another 30 years give or take, at some point they will shuffle off their mortal coil and then there could be some real questions about the continued existence of the team.

To the bolded, a similar scenario happened after the passing of Eugene Melnyk in Ottawa and his kids decided to sell with a less than perfectly situated current arena.

Bettman decided the NHL wasn't going to leave Ottawa so he sold to the highest best bidder and there were multiple groups interested. With the price the NHL is fetching for expansion teams I don't see the NHL giving up on any market in the foreseeable future.

 

[jetsmooseice]

To the bolded, a similar scenario happened after the passing of Eugene Melnyk in Ottawa and his kids decided to sell with a less than perfectly situated current arena.

Bettman decided the NHL wasn't going to leave Ottawa so he sold to the highest best bidder and there were multiple groups interested. With the price the NHL is fetching for expansion teams I don't see the NHL giving up on any market in the foreseeable future.

Yes, that's fair. Expansion fees do provide a pretty good reason for the NHL to avoid moving a franchise. But that said, I'd imagine the pool of prospective owners wanting a team in Winnipeg is pretty limited relative to those wanting a team in Boston, Chicago, Vancouver, etc. So that could affect things, especially if potential local owners are unwilling or unable to pony up for the Jets.

As an aside, is it just me or do the Winnipeg Jets not really have the "feel" of a sports team owned by one of the wealthiest owners in all of pro sports worldwide? Usually teams with mega-wealthy owners have a certain swagger, as do their fans, but here in Winnipeg our team is as thrifty as its fanbase. And the fanbase is so insecure that it panics when there are a few empty seats.

 

[oldunclehue]

11989 at the game last night, Wheeler's first game back, Trouba there and add in the NYR are one of the best teams.

Of note there was a BIG winter storm in the area yesterday and last night, highways were closed and travel was not recommended. Likely kept some people from going.

 

[Headshot77]

Yes, that's fair. Expansion fees do provide a pretty good reason for the NHL to avoid moving a franchise. But that said, I'd imagine the pool of prospective owners wanting a team in Winnipeg is pretty limited relative to those wanting a team in Boston, Chicago, Vancouver, etc. So that could affect things, especially if potential local owners are unwilling or unable to pony up for the Jets.

As an aside, is it just me or do the Winnipeg Jets not really have the "feel" of a sports team owned by one of the wealthiest owners in all of pro sports worldwide? Usually teams with mega-wealthy owners have a certain swagger, as do their fans, but here in Winnipeg our team is as thrifty as its fanbase. And the fanbase is so insecure that it panics when there are a few empty seats.

It's because you guys lost your team before. It'll take a near century for the Jets to feel like institutional bedrock in the NHL. You're also the smallest market in the NHL so there's always going to be some amount of little man syndrome with that. No disrespect to Winnipeg at all but the fans are well aware that it's more challenging to attract UFAs, or get their draft picks to stay long-term.

 

[jetsmooseice]

It's because you guys lost your team before. It'll take a near century for the Jets to feel like institutional bedrock in the NHL. You're also the smallest market in the NHL so there's always going to be some amount of little man syndrome with that. No disrespect to Winnipeg at all but the fans are well aware that it's more challenging to attract UFAs, or get their draft picks to stay long-term.

This is the cited reason for management doing everything humanly possible to avoid a rebuild. The logic being that a rebuild takes years in most markets but would take even longer here due to the sheer challenge of attracting UFAs.

 

[ps241]

Yes, that's fair. Expansion fees do provide a pretty good reason for the NHL to avoid moving a franchise. But that said, I'd imagine the pool of prospective owners wanting a team in Winnipeg is pretty limited relative to those wanting a team in Boston, Chicago, Vancouver, etc. So that could affect things, especially if potential local owners are unwilling or unable to pony up for the Jets.

As an aside, is it just me or do the Winnipeg Jets not really have the "feel" of a sports team owned by one of the wealthiest owners in all of pro sports worldwide? Usually teams with mega-wealthy owners have a certain swagger, as do their fans, but here in Winnipeg our team is as thrifty as its fanbase. And the fanbase is so insecure that it panics when there are a few empty seats.

There seemed to be a robust market in Ottawa for groups interested in owning an NHL team and I don't think the winning group had local representation. Ottawa is not a top market by any means. I would assume if the team sold in Winnipeg it would be to a group not based in Winnipeg. It's probably the least desirable market but that doesn't mean their wouldn't be a group or groups interested.

Thomson is only one of the owners and he is the silent owner. When you have "ownership groups" the dynamics are very different. One owners deep pockets doesn't mean all the Jets owners have deep pockets.

The current negative buzz around the team is a challenge for Mark (TNSE) and in his latest interview with Dreger it seems like he is up for the challenge. Time will tell

 

[awfulwaffle]

11989 at the game last night, Wheeler's first game back, Trouba there and add in the NYR are one of the best teams.

Of note there was a BIG winter storm in the area yesterday and last night, highways were closed and travel was not recommended. Likely kept some people from going.

No offense, but I've seen countless slams against the Coyotes and their fans on this forum, many of which were Jets fans. I don't think it's right to now make excuses for Jets fans not showing up to games. Just my $.02 though.

 

[Yukon Joe]

To the bolded, a similar scenario happened after the passing of Eugene Melnyk in Ottawa and his kids decided to sell with a less than perfectly situated current arena.

Bettman decided the NHL wasn't going to leave Ottawa so he sold to the highest best bidder and there were multiple groups interested. With the price the NHL is fetching for expansion teams I don't see the NHL giving up on any market in the foreseeable future.

Situation in Ottawa was different in this way - Eugene Melnyk was severely under-capitalized. There were stories he was borrowing against the Senators in order to fund his other businesses. He (and his kids) did not have enough money to help develop a new arena. And finally I wonder if there was an estate tax issue as well. *Note: David Thomson probably doesn't actually have all that much money himself - almost everything is controlled through a family trust, which was certainly done to avoid estate taxes)

 

[HarrySPlinkett]

Isn’t the Jets owner the richest man in Canada?

Call him.

 

[aqib]

No offense, but I've seen countless slams against the Coyotes and their fans on this forum, many of which were Jets fans. I don't think it's right to now make excuses for Jets fans not showing up to games. Just my $.02 though.

The difference is your $.02 is close to the price of a tickets to a Coyotes game when they were in Glendale. I saw tickets for Saturday night games against the Kings (when they were good) going for $20 online.

 

[awfulwaffle]

The difference is your $.02 is close to the price of a tickets to a Coyotes game when they were in Glendale. I saw tickets for Saturday night games against the Kings (when they were good) going for $20 online.

This isn't a Coyotes thread. Back to the topic at hand, the Jets struggles, which seems to be a concern to ownership. I'll sit back to lurking and eating my popcorn.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

The difference is your $.02 is close to the price of a tickets to a Coyotes game when they were in Glendale. I saw tickets for Saturday night games against the Kings (when they were good) going for $20 online.

Tickets in Winnipeg (v. Nash) available for $18, in Calgary (v. Dallas) for $8, and in San Jose (v Van) for $10.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Tickets in Winnipeg (v. Nash) available for $18, in Calgary (v. Dallas) for $8, and in San Jose (v Van) for $10.

So I'm not quite sure what you're arguing here.

Nashville at Winnipeg - cheapest I can find on Stubhub is $37 in the upper corner - which is still below list price however.

I did try to find a comparable Arizona game. How about Nov 7, Seattle at Arizona. $156 each. You can definitely see the effect of limited availability (and of course they'd be much closer to the ice).

Dallas at Calgary is going for $15. That's in the upper, upper deck - I've sat there and those seats really suck. But $15 - oof.

Vancouver at San Jose is $13

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

So I'm not quite sure what you're arguing here.

Nashville at Winnipeg - cheapest I can find on Stubhub is $37 in the upper corner - which is still below list price however.

I did try to find a comparable Arizona game. How about Nov 7, Seattle at Arizona. $156 each. You can definitely see the effect of limited availability (and of course they'd be much closer to the ice).

Dallas at Calgary is going for $15. That's in the upper, upper deck - I've sat there and those seats really suck. But $15 - oof.

Vancouver at San Jose is $13

That's probably after exchange rate. This is what I see for Winnipeg...

But ultimately, not trying to pick on Peg. Just showing all the regulars who have come here for years saying "Sunbelt team has tickets for $20...ha...we'd sell out forever with that" that they'd be incorrect.

 

[TheLegend]

The difference is your $.02 is close to the price of a tickets to a Coyotes game when they were in Glendale. I saw tickets for Saturday night games against the Kings (when they were good) going for $20 online.

Whataboutism isn't a solid retort here.

 

[Tasteless Beaver]

That's probably after exchange rate. This is what I see for Winnipeg...

View attachment 760900

But ultimately, not trying to pick on Peg. Just showing all the regulars who have come here for years saying "Sunbelt team has tickets for $20...ha...we'd sell out forever with that" that they'd be incorrect.

Go through checkout, it will add the fees and that $18 will become a much bigger number. We mandate that fees are tacked on up front, and clearly the unposted ticket fees create a false sense of cheapness to those who don’t see them.

 

[oldunclehue]

No offense, but I've seen countless slams against the Coyotes and their fans on this forum, many of which were Jets fans. I don't think it's right to now make excuses for Jets fans not showing up to games. Just my $.02 though.

Not an excuse for people not going to the game. Just a fact, if highways are closed people from surrounding communities don't go to the game.

This is a Jets topic. If a snow storm his Phoenix area on a game night and closes down the highways feel free to point that out as a potential cause of low attendance.