Winnipeg Sun: Jets, Mark Chipman, call for help as attendance decreases

[ps241]

Situation in Ottawa was different in this way - Eugene Melnyk was severely under-capitalized. There were stories he was borrowing against the Senators in order to fund his other businesses. He (and his kids) did not have enough money to help develop a new arena. And finally I wonder if there was an estate tax issue as well. *Note: David Thomson probably doesn't actually have all that much money himself - almost everything is controlled through a family trust, which was certainly done to avoid estate taxes)

The poster I quoted had mentioned maybe after the the Winnipeg owners die their kids will sell the team. I was referencing Eugene’s Kids selling and presumably cashing in on the remainder of the proceeds after the debts from dad were cleared up.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

Go through checkout, it will add the fees and that $18 will become a much bigger number. We mandate that fees are tacked on up front, and clearly the unposted ticket fees create a false sense of cheapness to those who don’t see them.

Wait, so US doesn't have ticket fees? This is news to me.

 

[Tasteless Beaver]

Wait, so US doesn't have ticket fees? This is news to me.

Your reading comprehension is very poor. Please re-read the post, nowhere did I say that - I said fees are added on at checkout for Americans. You see the advertised price of $18 and think "oh they're so cheap, clearly Jets' fans don't appreciate the team if they won't attend at such low prices!", then they bury you in fees once they're already in the checkout progress. It's bait-and-switch tactic that has been banned in Canada, because it's clearly very effective at fooling people. In all of the discussion on Jets attendance, there are so many similar posts saying there's no excuse for Canadians not to pay $18-20 to attend a game, which is an absolute fallacy. There are resale tickets that are an exception, but in general we don't pay less than $50 for the worst ticket in the house. In fact, the cheapest direct-sale ticket to the next Nashville game starts at $63.00 (plus an additional $4.75 fee).

 

[BKIslandersFan]

Your reading comprehension is very poor. Please re-read the post, nowhere did I say that - I said fees are added on at checkout for Americans. You see the advertised price of $18 and think "oh they're so cheap, clearly Jets' fans don't appreciate the team if they won't attend at such low prices!", then they bury you in fees once they're already in the checkout progress. It's bait-and-switch tactic that has been banned in Canada, because it's clearly very effective at fooling people. In all of the discussion on Jets attendance, there are so many similar posts saying there's no excuse for Canadians not to pay $18-20 to attend a game, which is an absolute fallacy. There are resale tickets that are an exception, but in general we don't pay less than $50 for the worst ticket in the house. In fact, the cheapest direct-sale ticket to the next Nashville game starts at $63.00 (plus an additional $4.75 fee).

First of all, no need to be testy. I've been very fair to Winnipeg fans on here.

And I can't imagine even with fees $18 ticket becomes $50. At most $25-$30.


And someone posted picture of ticket prices listed for Jets game. And they were going for $25 or so. Are they not prices included with fees? So I am kinda confused here.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

Go through checkout, it will add the fees and that $18 will become a much bigger number. We mandate that fees are tacked on up front, and clearly the unposted ticket fees create a false sense of cheapness to those who don’t see them.

Those fees are universal. Sunbelt teams get the ~45% plus taxes added on just like Canadian teams.

And I fully agree...those fees are a total rip-off. They need to be shown up front rather than waiting until checkout to show how much you're getting gouged.

 

[Headshot77]

This is the cited reason for management doing everything humanly possible to avoid a rebuild. The logic being that a rebuild takes years in most markets but would take even longer here due to the sheer challenge of attracting UFAs.

But if you don't rebuild then you'll have a franchise stuck in perpetual mediocrity and that mindset doesn't win you any new fans.

 

[jetsmooseice]

If anyone has Jets tickets for sale for CAD $18 a pop all in, then DM me, because I'll buy them

Realistically the cheapest Jets tickets on the market right now are around $40 a pop for the games no one wants. More desirable games start at $60 a pop and certain Original Six opponents command a $100+ get in price. The game vs. the Leafs starts at $170 a pop!

Here is the most popular resale site for Jets games, Stubhub is not that widely used here... I'm sure the ridiculous fees have a lot to do with it. FansFirst - By Fans. For Fans. No Fees.

But if you don't rebuild then you'll have a franchise stuck in perpetual mediocrity and that mindset doesn't win you any new fans.

The Jets are still a playoff team with a world class goalie. They may not be elite tier but with a few defensive improvements they could be a legitimate playoff contender. Better this than the Buffalo route IMO

 

[Voight]

3rd Baron of Fleet is that a real title??!

Your typical British patronage bullshit. Bunch of titles that mean nothing but get passed down through generations and are honestly meaningless outside of the UK.

 

[jetsmooseice]

Further to my last post. There are tickets left for the Leafs' one and only appearance in Winnipeg this season. But holy shit, check out these prices.

https://www.ticketmaster.ca/winnipeg-jets-vs-toronto-maple-leafs-winnipeg-manitoba-01-27-2024/event/11005F1DC89B4857

Cheapest pair of tickets in the building works out to $188 a pop all in with taxes and fees (so $376.75 for two). That's basically the back of the upper deck.

Cheapest lower bowl pair works out to $417 a pop all in ($834.75 for two).

These are not resale, this is "standard pricing" through Ticketmaster. That's just obnoxious.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

Further to my last post. There are tickets left for the Leafs' one and only appearance in Winnipeg this season. But holy shit, check out these prices.

https://www.ticketmaster.ca/winnipeg-jets-vs-toronto-maple-leafs-winnipeg-manitoba-01-27-2024/event/11005F1DC89B4857

Cheapest pair of tickets in the building works out to $188 a pop all in with taxes and fees (so $376.75 for two). That's basically the back of the upper deck.

Cheapest lower bowl pair works out to $417 a pop all in ($834.75 for two).

These are not resale, this is "standard pricing" through Ticketmaster. That's just obnoxious.

Yeah, going through Ticketmaster is typically the most expensive. That's why I go with the brokers, mainly to the less-in-demand games. The brokers can adjust the price based on demand while Ticketmaster pricing is bound by the team/league.

Tickets in the 300 section (top) to the Yotes at Preds game in 10 days is $75 on StubHub while they're $95 on Ticketmaster. They both charge similar fees, too.

 

[jetsmooseice]

Yeah, going through Ticketmaster is typically the most expensive. That's why I go with the brokers, mainly to the less-in-demand games. The brokers can adjust the price based on demand while Ticketmaster pricing is bound by the team/league.

Tickets in the 300 section (top) to the Yotes at Preds game in 10 days is $75 on StubHub while they're $95 on Ticketmaster. They both charge similar fees, too.

Those Ticketmaster prices are roughly double the cost of a typical game against a team like, say, St. Louis. The Jets have clearly made a decision to squeeze Leafs fans for every penny they can.

The annoying thing about it is that the game will feel like a Leafs home game because only the most rabid die hard Leafs fans are willing to pay those prices.

 

[Stumbledore]

Your typical British patronage bullshit. Bunch of titles that mean nothing but get passed down through generations and are honestly meaningless outside of the UK.

I think you fail to grasp the difference between patronage and a hereditary title, especially when it comes to governance. Without a writ of summons, no peer may sit or vote in Parliament.

While you may not have been taught these things in the United States, peerage has considerable importance in Great Britain, France, Italy, Germany, Spain, and other countries. It was also sufficiently important in America that both James Madison (in the Federalist Papers #44) and Alexander Hamilton (Federalist #84) spoke out against titles of nobility.

Curiously, the American Constitution in Article 1, Section 9, Clause 8 specifically allows Americans to accept the Title of Nobility as long as they secure the permission of Congress. So you still have a chance, albeit a slim one, to be favoured with your typical "patronage bullshit" by any number of countries.

 

[Yukon Joe]

I think you fail to grasp the difference between patronage and a hereditary title, especially when it comes to governance. Without a writ of summons, no peer may sit or vote in Parliament.

While you may not have been taught these things in the United States, peerage has considerable importance in Great Britain, France, Italy, Germany, Spain, and other countries. It was also sufficiently important in America that both James Madison (in the Federalist Papers #44) and Alexander Hamilton (Federalist #84) spoke out against titles of nobility.

Curiously, the American Constitution in Article 1, Section 9, Clause 8 specifically allows Americans to accept the Title of Nobility as long as they secure the permission of Congress. So you still have a chance, albeit a slim one, to be favoured with your typical "patronage bullshit" by any number of countries.

Actually Canada maintains a custom of not allowing knighthoods and peerages to be awarded to Canadian citizens. It goes back to something called the Nickle Resolution passed in Parliament in 1917, although there have been many exceptions.

David Thomson is able to hold the title because he has dual Canadian and British citizenship.

There was a controversy back in the 90s when Conrad Black was being given a non-hereditary title. Because Black was often at odds with then-Prime Minister Jean Chretien, filed a lawsuit to block Black from getting a title, even though Black was also a dual Canadian and British citizen. In the end Black renounced his Canadian citizenship and took the title.

(later on Black was imprisoned in the US for insider trading. Because he renounced his Canadian citizenship he was not able to serve his sentence in Canada. He later regained his Canadian citizenship apparently earlier this year. He remains however the title of Lord Black of Crossharbour)

 

[Jets4Life]

As an aside, is it just me or do the Winnipeg Jets not really have the "feel" of a sports team owned by one of the wealthiest owners in all of pro sports worldwide? Usually teams with mega-wealthy owners have a certain swagger, as do their fans, but here in Winnipeg our team is as thrifty as its fanbase. And the fanbase is so insecure that it panics when there are a few empty seats.

How are the Winnipeg Jets thrifty. They pretty much have spent to the cap nearly every season for the past few years.

 

[Jets4Life]

No offense, but I've seen countless slams against the Coyotes and their fans on this forum, many of which were Jets fans. I don't think it's right to now make excuses for Jets fans not showing up to games. Just my $.02 though.

I believe the reason for the animosity to the Coyotes, would be that it is personal for many long time Jets fans. After all, many still remember the day the Jets relocated. Coyote bashing was really bad up until 2011, then subsided.

 

[Jets4Life]

Tickets in Winnipeg (v. Nash) available for $18, in Calgary (v. Dallas) for $8, and in San Jose (v Van) for $10.

I was on the Flames forum, and I ahve heard that Calgary is selling tickets for as little as $3.00 US on some sites for nosebleed sections. It's only a matter of time before we can buy tickets at 7-11, just like the 90s!

 

[Yukon Joe]

I was on the Flames forum, and I ahve heard that Calgary is selling tickets for as little as $3.00 US on some sites for nosebleed sections. It's only a matter of time before we can buy tickets at 7-11, just like the 90s!

Is it the Flames selling those tickets, or on the secondary market?

 

[Jets4Life]

Is it the Flames selling those tickets, or on the secondary market?

I believe it is the secondary market.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

I believe the reason for the animosity to the Coyotes, would be that it is personal for many long time Jets fans. After all, many still remember the day the Jets relocated. Coyote bashing was really bad up until 2011, then subsided.

I don't think most people who shit on Coyotes were Jets fans to be honest. At least not on BOH section.

But I can't entirely blame them even if it was.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

Is it the Flames selling those tickets, or on the secondary market?

I believe it is the secondary market.

Has to be secondary market. Ticketmaster prices are much higher.

 

[TheLegend]

I don't think most people who shit on Coyotes were Jets fans to be honest. At least not on BOH section.

But I can't entirely blame them even if it was.

They weren't the only ones.... but very small number were some of the most vocal. Most of that has subsided with Jets 2.0. OTOH, we still have some fans who still follow the team from The Peg.

Even so... there's been planty of reasons to drag the franchise purely on how it's been handled up until the last couple of years, and even Meruelo has made a couple of blunders himself.

 

[sawchuk1971]

I believe the reason for the animosity to the Coyotes, would be that it is personal for many long time Jets fans. After all, many still remember the day the Jets relocated. Coyote bashing was really bad up until 2011, then subsided.

i remember when the jetsowner site was around, there were plenty of coyote bashing there..

i remember one poster who would post attendance figures from expansion sunbelt cities to show that those fans don't care for hockey; fans here in winnipeg would sell them out...

 

[Jets4Life]

i remember when the jetsowner site was around, there were plenty of coyote bashing there..

i remember one poster who would post attendance figures from expansion sunbelt cities to show that those fans don't care for hockey; fans here in winnipeg would sell them out...

I remember that very well.

 

[Jets4Life]

I’ve been saying it for years, but no one would listen. Winnipeg is not a major league market.

..and you have been incorrect for years, with your lies about Winnipeg TV ratings, and your fake sources. Have your ever contributed anything constructive, aside from trashing the NHL, hockey in general, and the Boston and Canada markets?

 

[Jets4Life]

The funny thing is that the 1996 departure more or less inured me to whatever might happen with this incarnation of the Jets. I mean, I don't want, nor do I expect the Jets to leave again, but it would not be some terrible catastrophic thing to my eyes if they did. I went through it once before and life went on just fine.

The irony is that after the Jets left, there was no "doom and gloom" some had predicted. The city actually lost people from 1995-97. Once the 90s ended the economy started to perform much better, and people found other things to do. Incidentally, after the Jets returned, other entertainment options have suffered due to peoples preference for the Jets over other forms of entertainment.

Besides, putting too much collective emotional importance on the team exposes you to getting screwed by exploitative owners like the situations in Edmonton and now again in Calgary. But that said, I don't think Chipman is cut from the same cloth as those guys in Alberta.

How is Chipman and TNSE any different than the Edmonton or Calgary owners? For starters, it's not like either city got a new arena as soon as the owner asked for one. The old Northlands Coliseum needed to be replaced for 15 years, before they finally built the new downtown arena. Calgary has been making waves in regards to a new arena for just as long.

The only reason that the Canada Life Centre was only built with 15,000 seats, and without some enmities other larger arenas enjoy, is that there was no NHL team at the time, and none on the radar. If the city and province had known that a new NHL team would eventually play in Winnipeg, I guarantee they would have closed off Hargrave, and constructed it to at least 17,500 seats, with more luxury boxes and club seating.