Winnipeg Sun: Jets, Mark Chipman, call for help as attendance decreases

[joelef]

I think Atlanta "loses" points (fairly or unfairly, I'm neither defending nor condemning it) for having plenty of other sports to go 'round.

I'd like to think, though, that they could relate to Hartford. VERY similar psychologically (all the way to Boston being very analogous to Montreal).

It's also easy for Americans to take it personally now that most Canadians (at least the ones that publicly say anything about it) are also rah-rah when asked about the NHL returning to Quebec City. The political landscape of Quebec in 1995 + the fact that the Jets relocation drama received much more national press likely left a lot Quebecers just as salty at Canada. But I wasn't in Quebec at the time (nor trolling alt.nhl.quebec.nordiques or whatever it would have been called at the time), so I have no clue.

There would be allot more empathy for Quebec fans if they had empathy for struggling teams since they know what’s it like to have there teams relocated … nope instead we get the typical “ deserving hockey market” crap .

 

[hockey20000]

The atlanta fans in here crying need to grow up you lost your team twice.. and will somehow probs be given a 3rd chance in the next 10-15 years so settle down and stop crying about 2011 and how mean the media was to you jesus.

 

[Yukon Joe]

The atlanta fans in here crying need to grow up you lost your team twice.. and will somehow probs be given a 3rd chance in the next 10-15 years so settle down and stop crying about 2011 and how mean the media was to you jesus.

Dude - this is the "business of hockey" forum. Talking about which markets should have teams, or not have teams, are pretty much our reason for being.

Both of the Atlanta franchises never had stellar attendance, but both wound up moving based on the circumstances of the owner more than the market itself.

Atlanta is the second largest metro area in the US without a NHL team (after Houston), so there's no doubt the league would like to be in that market if the circumstances were right.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

The atlanta fans in here crying need to grow up you lost your team twice.. and will somehow probs be given a 3rd chance in the next 10-15 years so settle down and stop crying about 2011 and how mean the media was to you jesus.

We could say the same thing about QC and Canadian nationalists.

 

[Yukon Joe]

We could say the same thing about QC and Canadian nationalists.

Quebec City fans have every right to complain as well. The league didn't lift a finger to try and prevent the Nords from leaving. The Nords though were the first domino fall - the Jets left the next year, then Edmonton came frighteningly close to moving as well. It was only at that point the league broughin the Canadian Assistance Program, realizing it had a serious problem on its hands in Canada.

spoken positively about Atlanta minutes ago, let me then turn to Quebec. Depending on what you measure as the "Quebec City metro area" it would be the smallest or second smallest franchise location in the league, but of course it does have very dedicated fans. There's no pro team of any sort n the area (not even CFL) so it would be the absolute #1 in the marketplace.

Unlike Atlanta, Quebec City is not a destination the league head office cares deeply about being in. But a QC franchise would not doubt be successful and not a drain on league revenues. The problem QC has is whether there's anyone who can write a cheque big enough. Pierre-Karl Peladeau doesn't seem to have enough money.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

Quebec City fans have every right to complain as well. The league didn't lift a finger to try and prevent the Nords from leaving. The Nords though were the first domino fall - the Jets left the next year, then Edmonton came frighteningly close to moving as well. It was only at that point the league broughin the Canadian Assistance Program, realizing it had a serious problem on its hands in Canada.

spoken positively about Atlanta minutes ago, let me then turn to Quebec. Depending on what you measure as the "Quebec City metro area" it would be the smallest or second smallest franchise location in the league, but of course it does have very dedicated fans. There's no pro team of any sort n the area (not even CFL) so it would be the absolute #1 in the marketplace.

Unlike Atlanta, Quebec City is not a destination the league head office cares deeply about being in. But a QC franchise would not doubt be successful and not a drain on league revenues. The problem QC has is whether there's anyone who can write a cheque big enough. Pierre-Karl Peladeau doesn't seem to have enough money.

Correct me if I am wrong but one of the reasons why QC was arena right? Teams that left because they couldn’t get arena built by public dime is dime a dozen.

 

[hockey20000]

We could say the same thing about QC and Canadian nationalists.

shouldnt you be in nba forum whining about your nets bro.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

shouldnt you be in nba forum whining about your nets bro.

LOL...I'm not seeing anyone else having a problem with the discussion here other than you. The Senators are off to a ,500 start in a tough Atlantic Conference. Plenty to discuss in the Senators forum. bro.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Correct me if I am wrong but one of the reasons why QC was arena right? Teams that left because they couldn’t get arena built by public dime is dime a dozen.

Quebecers can correct me if I'm wrong, but not really. I mean the Colisee was hardly new and would need to be replaced at some point, but this was never a "build me a new arena or I'm leaving" move.

Owner Marcel Aubut was just a guy who couldn't be an owner in the league as it was evolving. He was a lawyer, had capital reserves to fall back on if the team started losing money. Canadian dollar was declining, salaries were increasing, and he felt he could see the writing on the wall. He did ask the province for a subsidy (which was rejected), and then turned to sell the team.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

Unlike Atlanta, Quebec City is not a destination the league head office cares deeply about being in. But a QC franchise would not doubt be successful and not a drain on league revenues. The problem QC has is whether there's anyone who can write a cheque big enough. Pierre-Karl Peladeau doesn't seem to have enough money.

I think this is the problem in Atlanta as well. There can be a million articles about a proposed arena, but until I see who the money is (if there even is anyone), then it's just a dream.

 

[Yukon Joe]

I think this is the problem in Atlanta as well. There can be a million articles about a proposed arena, but until I see who the money is (if there even is anyone), then it's just a dream.

But in Atlanta at least you can think of some names.

I mean - here's a list of billionaires from Georgia:

Forbes' 2022 billionaires list reveals richest Georgians

Georgia is home to a gowning number of billionaires, according to Forbes. Who's the richest Georgian?

www.fox5atlanta.com

I mean the first name you'd think of would be Arthur Blank (#3 on the list) as he already owns the Falcons, but you have options.

When it comes to Quebec however... you can google a list of wealthy Quebecers, but most are either in Montreal, or don't live in Quebec any longer anyways. And besides, PKP has control over the Centre Videotron (it's named after one of his companies) through the lease with the Remparts, so nobody else would be able to bring a team in without working with PKP.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

But in Atlanta at least you can think of some names.

I mean - here's a list of billionaires from Georgia:

Forbes' 2022 billionaires list reveals richest Georgians

Georgia is home to a gowning number of billionaires, according to Forbes. Who's the richest Georgian?

www.fox5atlanta.com

But Atlanta had a list of billionaires 12 years ago, too. There's a big difference in having billionaires and having one willing to pay a huge expansion fee on top of buying an arena.

 

[joelef]

Quebec City fans have every right to complain as well. The league didn't lift a finger to try and prevent the Nords from leaving. The Nords though were the first domino fall - the Jets left the next year, then Edmonton came frighteningly close to moving as well. It was only at that point the league broughin the Canadian Assistance Program, realizing it had a serious problem on its hands in Canada.

spoken positively about Atlanta minutes ago, let me then turn to Quebec. Depending on what you measure as the "Quebec City metro area" it would be the smallest or second smallest franchise location in the league, but of course it does have very dedicated fans. There's no pro team of any sort n the area (not even CFL) so it would be the absolute #1 in the marketplace.

Unlike Atlanta, Quebec City is not a destination the league head office cares deeply about being in. But a QC franchise would not doubt be successful and not a drain on league revenues. The problem QC has is whether there's anyone who can write a cheque big enough. Pierre-Karl Peladeau doesn't seem to have enough money.

Nobody is saying you can’t be mad about relocation it’s the fact that Quebec fans have no empathy and even downright crap all over other teams fan bases for the same exact situation they were in.

 

[Stumbledore]

So your point if I have it right, is that people are saying that we have been told that Canadian teams will be selling out no matter what. Which is true. This is not disputable. People on this board have been saying this.

So what’s the problem here? It’s true. There is nothing here that’s misleading. Which makes your Fox News example terrible. And stereotyping America as whole? Yea I am not sure you are really any better than people you are trying to make fun of, I am not gonna lie.

I don’t think I ever called you a hypocrite. So I don’t know what issue you have with me there. But if you are talking about your fellow Canada First people, then surely saying bad on ice product is not an excuse to bad attendance and then turning around and using same excuse for Winnipeg Jets is hypocrisy? Seems like very definition.

Okay, so I know this is pointless but I'll give it one more try:

"So your point if I have it right, is that people are saying that we have been told that Canadian teams will be selling out no matter what"

No, that is not my point. PLEASE go back and read post #479 as I have asked you to do several times. It does NOT mention teams. It does NOT mention hockey. It only states that people are gullible if they hear something too many times.

"I don’t think I ever called you a hypocrite. So I don’t know what issue you have with me there."

I never said you called me a hypocrite. I have no issue with you there. Do you actually READ what people post?

Let me make this very simple for you:

In post #485, AtlantaWhaler said my post was hypocritical. (He didn't call me a hypocrite. He categorized one post; I'm a retired lawyer and appreciate the difference.)

In post #489, I responded to AtlantaWhaler and asked him (not you) to point out how my posting was hypocritical.

In post #491, AtlantaWhaler replied and did not address my request to identify the hypocritical aspect of my comment.

In post #492, I responded to AtlantaWhaler and noticed that he had NOT pointed out anything hypocritical.

In post #495, you TWICE asked again what the point of post #479 was.

This is really spoiling what should be a pleasant past-time. You'll understand why at this stage I'm just going to shake my head and engage with other posters from here on.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

Okay, so I know this is pointless but I'll give it one more try:

"So your point if I have it right, is that people are saying that we have been told that Canadian teams will be selling out no matter what"

No, that is not my point. PLEASE go back and read post #479 as I have asked you to do several times. It does NOT mention teams. It does NOT mention hockey. It only states that people are gullible if they hear something too many times.

"I don’t think I ever called you a hypocrite. So I don’t know what issue you have with me there."

I never said you called me a hypocrite. I have no issue with you there. Do you actually READ what people post?

Let me make this very simple for you:

I dunno what people being gullible has anything do with this. We are only pointing out the narrative thats been repeated on this forum for years. We don't and never have believed that narrative that all Canadian teams will sell out no matter what was true.

In post #485, AtlantaWhaler said my post was hypocritical. (He didn't call me a hypocrite. He categorized one post; I'm a retired lawyer and appreciate the difference.)

In post #489, I responded to AtlantaWhaler and asked him (not you) to point out how my posting was hypocritical.

In post #491, AtlantaWhaler replied and did not address my request to identify the hypocritical aspect of my comment.

In post #492, I responded to AtlantaWhaler and noticed that he had NOT pointed out anything hypocritical.

In post #495, you TWICE asked again what the point of post #479 was.

This is really spoiling what should be a pleasant past-time. You'll understand why at this stage I'm just going to shake my head and engage with other posters from here on.

I never called you a hypocrite, but one of your post implies I did. Maybe you should read your own post. And I think everyone will agree with me when I say post #479 makes no sense at all.

 

[TheLegend]

LOL...I'm not seeing anyone else having a problem with the discussion here other than you. The Senators are off to a ,500 start in a tough Atlantic Conference. Plenty to discuss in the Senators forum. bro.

Is this where I step in to mention all the $25 and BOGO ticket offers Eugene Melnyk ran just to fill seats for a couple of years without anyone batting a eye while the Coyotes were getting seared for the same thing?

I can also relate to "MakeItSeven" fans openly bragging about invading the Arizona Republic's website to take over all the discussions with the "MakeItSeven" mantra. Then after Glendale agreed to help keep the Coyotes there, rambled off to the Thrashers sites pretending to be Coyotes fans to pit them and Thrashers fans against each other.

Now those were the good old days.

 

[joelef]

Any reddit thread o the Winnipeg jets attendance is full of jet fans throwing shade at the coyotes and the thrashers . So there taking there anger on a non existent team wow talk about insecurities.

 

[LadyStanley]

Full interview

 

[Boonk]

Any reddit thread o the Winnipeg jets attendance is full of jet fans throwing shade at the coyotes and the thrashers . So there taking there anger on a non existent team wow talk about insecurities.

Its reddit. Literally everyone there is full of insecurities lol

 

[Yukon Joe]

There's a useful term that I'd like to introduce here - "Nutpicking".

In an internet argument, you find the nuttiest person on the opposite side saying the nuttiest possible thing. You then hold that example up and say it's what everyone on the other side believes.

I was very passionate about getting the Winnipeg Jets back. I posted on Jetsowner.com and other boards on the topic. But I never cheered for Arizona or Atlanta to lose their team - as a Jets fan I knew how painful it was to lose your team.

So I'm just going to suggest to everyone - focus on what the person you're talking to is actually saying. Don't just nutpick and take what some randos on reddit (or wherever) are saying as being representative of anything.

 

[edog37]

You're missing my point. Bettman will move Heaven and Hell to protect U.S. franchises. We'll see if he does the same for Canadian teams - his record hasn't been great when it comes to Canadians teams but time will tell.

Yes. The hypocrisy is <fill in the blank>.

The NHL has moved hell and high water to keep a team in Arizona. Let's see what they do for Manitoba.

My guess : Gary's already shopping the team in the U.S.

if you want to keep your team, buy some tickets. It isn’t hard

If Chapman wants out, we'll see how hard Bettman works to keep the team in Winnipeg - the proof will be in the effort.


Fair enough.

You're missing my point. Bettman will move Heaven and Hell to protect U.S. franchises. We'll see if he does the same for Canadian teams - his record hasn't been great when it comes to Canadians teams but time will tell.

He’s the reason why Edmonton, Calgary, Vancouver, & Ottawa didn’t move.

 

[ORRFForever]

if you want to keep your team, buy some tickets. It isn’t hard

Or keep ALL the CDN money in Canada - Rogers, TSN, merch, gate etc. Split it among the 7 CDN teams. The 25 U.S. franchises are welcome to the ESPN money - like I said, earlier, that should be about $1.87 per team. Let's do THAT and we'll NEVER have a financial issue in Canada, again.

 

[Cnile]

Being a Winnipeg resident most of my life here’s my .02
Atlanta had 2 kicks at the cat, Winnipeg is on its second.
It’s very possible that these cities aren’t ever going to support pro hockey.
Winnipeg has to buck up or it’s only a matter of time.

 

[BMN]

He’s the reason why Edmonton, Calgary, Vancouver, & Ottawa didn’t move.

@ORRFForever conveniently opted to skip engaging in this argument.

Driving it back to the topic at hand: apologies if I missed it but I'm reading a lot about empty seats generally but are they all over the rink? Or is there a more alarming emptiness in the corporate boxes / high end areas? Just curious what the real gate revenue hit is right now...

 

[ORRFForever]

@ORRFForever conveniently opted to skip engaging in this argument.

I'm sure Sportsnet and TSN had more to do with those teams staying than Gary Bettman's generosity - if Sportsnet is going to spend BILLIONS with the NHL, it's not to televise Vegas / Kings games.

Don't do us any "favours". Keep the CDN money in Canada and let the chips fall where they may.