Player Discussion: Winnipeg Jets Defense

[Skidooboy]

still shocked at the people defending Dillon on here. he's a plug.

go watch games from the playoffs again...tell me what he did besides turnovers and blowing coverages...

we need a total rework of the back end . 2-3 PROPER top 4 Dmen and quit pretending guys Like Demello and Dillon are anything other than 5-6-7 guys on a cup winner.

 

[tbcwpg]

still shocked at the people defending Dillon on here. he's a plug.

go watch games from the playoffs again...tell me what he did besides turnovers and blowing coverages...

we need a total rework of the back end . 2-3 PROPER top 4 Dmen and quit pretending guys Like Demello and Dillon are anything other than 5-6-7 guys on a cup winner.

People are obsessed with things like size and "snarl" (a word I hate in relation to describing hockey players). I see the arguments about we need players who will clear out the front of the net, yet Dillon was here and didn't do that in the playoffs. His xGF% was bad (granted better than DeMelo but that's matchup dependent in a small sample). Also big bad Dillon threw 10 hits in the series, 3 less than noted hit monster Mark Scheifele.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Wheeler is on the books one more season so they can only buy out one more player.

Somebody please correct me if I am wrong but I think the rule is that you can have only 2 salary retentions on the books at 1 time. You can have more buyouts.

 

[10Ducky10]

Somebody please correct me if I am wrong but I think the rule is that you can have only 2 salary retentions on the books at 1 time. You can have more buyouts.

3 retained and 2 buy outs if I remember correctly.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

3 retained and 2 buy outs if I remember correctly.

Not sure now.

 

[10Ducky10]

Not sure now.

From puckpedia...

Teams can only carry a maximum of 3 Retained Salaries at a time.

An individual contract can only have a maximum of 2 teams retaining salary on it.


For players that are 26 or older, a buyout is 2/3 of the remaining salary owed on the contract.

For players that are under 26, a buyout is 1/3 of the remaining salary owed on the contract.

All buyouts are spread out over twice the remaining years of the contract.

 

[Hank Chinaski]

People are obsessed with things like size and "snarl" (a word I hate in relation to describing hockey players). I see the arguments about we need players who will clear out the front of the net, yet Dillon was here and didn't do that in the playoffs. His xGF% was bad (granted better than DeMelo but that's matchup dependent in a small sample). Also big bad Dillon threw 10 hits in the series, 3 less than noted hit monster Mark Scheifele.

His regular season play was good, though. Quite good. He stunk in the playoffs, but so did all other Jets dmen.

I’m on the fence about Dillon re-signing here, assuming he’s still interested. If we can somehow keep him here on a 2-3 year deal at reasonable AAV then I’m fine with it. I don’t think that’s likely, though.

I disagree with @Skidooboy that Dillon’s a plug. But completely agree with him that the Jets back end probably needs a rework. There were dozens of reasons why the Avs murked us in the first round, but one big reason: Jets were soooooooo slowwww getting the puck up ice from the back end. All kinds of useless d-to-d passes and fiddling with the puck on the breakout, allowing the Avs all day to get into NZ structure. And yeah, mid-30s Brenden Dillon is not going to help fix that flaw.

 

[tbcwpg]

His regular season play was good, though. Quite good. He stunk in the playoffs, but so did all other Jets dmen.

I’m on the fence about Dillon re-signing here, assuming he’s still interested. If we can somehow keep him here on a 2-3 year deal at reasonable AAV then I’m fine with it. I don’t think that’s likely, though.

I disagree with @Skidooboy that Dillon’s a plug. But completely agree with him that the Jets back end probably needs a rework. There were dozens of reasons why the Avs murked us in the first round, but one big reason: Jets were soooooooo slowwww getting the puck up ice from the back end. All kinds of useless d-to-d passes and fiddling with the puck on the breakout, allowing the Avs all day to get into NZ structure. And yeah, mid-30s Brenden Dillon is not going to help fix that flaw.

Most of the d-core was good in the regular season. I wouldn't suggest Dillon's effectiveness was because he was big though. Also defencemen like him at his age tend to drop off fairly quickly, so anything more than 3 years I'd balk at, and I think Dillon will be looking for more than that.

 

[Skidooboy]

His regular season play was good, though. Quite good. He stunk in the playoffs, but so did all other Jets dmen.

I’m on the fence about Dillon re-signing here, assuming he’s still interested. If we can somehow keep him here on a 2-3 year deal at reasonable AAV then I’m fine with it. I don’t think that’s likely, though.

I disagree with @Skidooboy that Dillon’s a plug. But completely agree with him that the Jets back end probably needs a rework. There were dozens of reasons why the Avs murked us in the first round, but one big reason: Jets were soooooooo slowwww getting the puck up ice from the back end. All kinds of useless d-to-d passes and fiddling with the puck on the breakout, allowing the Avs all day to get into NZ structure. And yeah, mid-30s Brenden Dillon is not going to help fix that flaw.

so what is it Dillon Provides....He's not very good at being a physical presence, he's not a great fighter, he can't skate, can't pass, and routinely gets beat on entries where he is out of position, turns his back on the puck carrier as he gets caught out of position...

giving him Three years based on one REGULAR season of above average play is absurd.

 

[Hank Chinaski]

so what is it Dillon Provides....He's not very good at being a physical presence, he's not a great fighter, he can't skate, can't pass, and routinely gets beat on entries where he is out of position, turns his back on the puck carrier as he gets caught out of position...

giving him Three years based on one REGULAR season of above average play is absurd.

Dillon was actually one of the best Jets dmen at denying zone entries last season. Only Samberg was better in the trackings that I’ve seen.

And it wasn’t just last season. He’s been above average defensively the last three seasons by just about every measure, despite playing with a below average partner in Pionk.

Like I said though, I won’t be losing sleep over Dillon leaving as a UFA. Mainly because I think our lack of effective puck movers on the blueline is a glaring weakness.

 

[Skidooboy]

Dillon was actually one of the best Jets dmen at denying zone entries last season. Only Samberg was better in the trackings that I’ve seen.

And it wasn’t just last season. He’s been above average defensively the last three seasons by just about every measure, despite playing with a below average partner in Pionk.

Like I said though, I won’t be losing sleep over Dillon leaving as a UFA. Mainly because I think our lack of effective puck movers on the blueline is a glaring weakness.

those the same metrics that show Ehlers is the best forward on the Jets….despite his utter and complete failure to produce at expected levels year after year, line after line ?

because I think any metric that says “Dillon is our best” anything is laughable.

maybe we should cover the rink in Paper since so many Jets look good on it…

Dillon is a 5-6 on a contender AT BEST, probably a PB guy. and nothing I’ve seen on the ice convinces me otherwise.

 

[tbcwpg]

those the same metrics that show Ehlers is the best forward on the Jets….despite his utter and complete failure to produce at expected levels year after year, line after line ?

because I think any metric that says “Dillon is our best” anything is laughable.

maybe we should cover the rink in Paper since so many Jets look good on it…

Dillon is a 5-6 on a contender AT BEST, probably a PB guy. and nothing I’ve seen on the ice convinces me otherwise.

He's a 4-5 likely on a contending team. He's definitely not a press box guy. I'm not opposed to re-signing him but I feel the team should go with Morrissey/Samberg/Heinola on the left to start the year.

 

[Buffdog]

He's a 4-5 likely on a contending team. He's definitely not a press box guy. I'm not opposed to re-signing him but I feel the team should go with Morrissey/Samberg/Heinola on the left to start the year.

It's not as much of a "I don't want to keep Dillon" thing for me but more of a "we can't keep all the LHD and expect the logjam to clear itself"

The downside to not re-signing him is the temptation to replace him with Stanley rather than Heinola

 

[Hank Chinaski]

those the same metrics that show Ehlers is the best forward on the Jets….despite his utter and complete failure to produce at expected levels year after year, line after line ?

because I think any metric that says “Dillon is our best” anything is laughable.

maybe we should cover the rink in Paper since so many Jets look good on it…

Dillon is a 5-6 on a contender AT BEST, probably a PB guy. and nothing I’ve seen on the ice convinces me otherwise.

You said Dillon “routinely gets beat on entries”. The numbers say he doesn’t, my eye test and opinion - worth the same as yours - also says he doesn’t.

Nowhere did I claim “Dillon is our best”. Best what? Best dresser? Best cook? You’ve lost me there.

I don’t disagree with you on #5-6 on a contending team, mainly because my feeling is that’s where he’s probably headed at his age and career trajectory.

 

[Skidooboy]

You said Dillon “routinely gets beat on entries”. The numbers say he doesn’t, my eye test and opinion - worth the same as yours - also says he doesn’t.

Nowhere did I claim “Dillon is our best”. Best what? Best dresser? Best cook? You’ve lost me there.

I don’t disagree with you on #5-6 on a contending team, mainly because my feeling is that’s where he’s probably headed at his age and career trajectory.

" Literally said in your last post....."Dillon was actually one of the best Jets dmen at denying zone entries last season."

also go wAtch the playoff series again. DIllon was a pilon ALL SERIES LONG.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

From puckpedia...

Teams can only carry a maximum of 3 Retained Salaries at a time.

An individual contract can only have a maximum of 2 teams retaining salary on it.


For players that are 26 or older, a buyout is 2/3 of the remaining salary owed on the contract.

For players that are under 26, a buyout is 1/3 of the remaining salary owed on the contract.

All buyouts are spread out over twice the remaining years of the contract.

Reread the bolded.
That is about how many teams can share the retention of 1 contract. Like in a 3 way where a third team takes a player and then retains another 50% to further reduce the cost to the eventual acquiring team.

It is not about how many contracts a team can buyout.

 

[Hank Chinaski]

" Literally said in your last post....."Dillon was actually one of the best Jets dmen at denying zone entries last season."

also go wAtch the playoff series again. DIllon was a pilon ALL SERIES LONG.

Fine, I’ll spell it out more clearly. Not as good as Samberg at denying OZ entries in 2023-24. About as effective as DeMelo. Better than every other Jet including JMo in 2023-24 if you look at the numbers. If you still read that as me saying “the best”, cool.

And I’d rather watch 2 Broke Girls reruns. I literally said in my first post that Dillon sucked in the playoffs. He wasn’t alone!

I’ve almost forgot what we’re even debating. Oh yeah, Dillon being a plug. You’re going to be surprised how much “pluggier” dmen can get. We’ll probably see one or two prime examples signed by Chevy this offseason.

 

[Jet]

The more I think about moving on from Pionk the more I think it won't happen nor should it.

Rhd who produce are at a premium, the Jets are already woefully thin on the right side, and the market is awful for buyers.

I guess the flip side is we might get something nice back but we still have to replace him.

I was extremely frustrated wth Neal this year. He went from being one of my faves to being really hard to watch. I think the death of a close friend while playing, along with injury really made it hard for him last year.

I think he's stays so all we can hope is he comes back healthy in mind and body, and has a great contract year.

 

[Heldig]

those the same metrics that show Ehlers is the best forward on the Jets….despite his utter and complete failure to produce at expected levels year after year, line after line ?

because I think any metric that says “Dillon is our best” anything is laughable.

maybe we should cover the rink in Paper since so many Jets look good on it…

Dillon is a 5-6 on a contender AT BEST, probably a PB guy. and nothing I’ve seen on the ice convinces me otherwise.

Wow, that is a hot take.

 

[ps241]

The more I think about moving on from Pionk the more I think it won't happen nor should it.

Rhd who produce are at a premium, the Jets are already woefully thin on the right side, and the market is awful for buyers.

I guess the flip side is we might get something nice back but we still have to replace him.

I was extremely frustrated wth Neal this year. He went from being one of my faves to being really hard to watch. I think the death of a close friend while playing, along with injury really made it hard for him last year.

I think he's stays so all we can hope is he comes back healthy in mind and body, and has a great contract year.

I think this might to come down to DeMelo and his future. If the Jets end up losing both Dillon and DeMelo to free agency then I expect Pionk and Schmidt to be part of this upcoming seasons plan.

we really need Alphie to grow into a top 3 level D man in the next 12 to 18 months.

 

[voyageur]

I think this might to come down to DeMelo and his future. If the Jets end up losing both Dillon and DeMelo to free agency then I expect Pionk and Schmidt to be part of this upcoming seasons plan.

we really need Alphie to grow into a top 3 level D man in the next 12 to 18 months.

I think it depends on how Arniel and the coaching staff view the defense...Bowness and Arniel were able to get more offense out of the same group Maurice and Huddy coached...It still remains to be seen who will coach the defense and that should have some impact on personnel...I wonder if Chevy's priorities start with replacing De Melo if he can't be re-signed, if the Jets think Samberg and Stanley can step up to replace Dillon, where Ville fits...If the Jets see Dylan Samberg as a top 4 d man I think an extension for him is a priority.

 

[ps241]

I think it depends on how Arniel and the coaching staff view the defense...Bowness and Arniel were able to get more offense out of the same group Maurice and Huddy coached...It still remains to be seen who will coach the defense and that should have some impact on personnel...I wonder if Chevy's priorities start with replacing De Melo if he can't be re-signed, if the Jets think Samberg and Stanley can step up to replace Dillon, where Ville fits...If the Jets see Dylan Samberg as a top 4 d man I think an extension for him is a priority.

Yea it will be interesting to see it plays out. I know Bones was pretty attached to vets so we’ll see what the beginning of this season looks like. Stanley is 26 so he would qualify as a vet now and Ville is 23 and in his D plus 6 season so neither of these guys are lacking the development time. It’s going to come down to whether they are talented enough now.

 

[Orrrules]

I think Stanley is going to be a revelation next season. Probably sign Miller too.

 

[Cnile]

I think Stanley is going to be a revelation next season. Probably sign Miller too.

What do you mean by revelation exactly?
Serious question

 

[Whileee]

I think Stanley is going to be a revelation next season. Probably sign Miller too.

Well, I wouldn't be surprised if your opinion is closer to Arniel's than most fans.

They wouldn't have started him in the playoffs if they didn't have a fairly high opinion of him. I would be shocked if Arniel doesn't have him pencilled in as the 3LD, with Dillon moving on. Maybe they see him as the next Desharnais or Mikkola... a big, late-developing 6D. He'll need to further improve his mobility, that's for sure.