Player Discussion: Winnipeg Jets Defense

[DRW204]

I agree with you here, but I think Pionk is the guy that gets singled out too often, when he is one of the better defensemen at moving the puck. Early in the year De Melo has struggled with simple breakouts, which is why he got demoted.

I do think having a defenseman on each pairing that can move the puck helps. I liked the 2nd period in Vegas with Morrissey-De Melo, Dillon-Pionk, Samberg-Schmidt, even though the team was outshot, that's probably the direction I'd go.

The Jets don't have a clear #1 defenseman, Morrissey is playing banged up already, it's going to have to be a group effort.

i dont know, or doesnt really matter who you assign the ineptitude of puck-moving of our top-pair, whether it be morrissey or pionk, or the fwds.... they just flat-out need to get better at it.

i notice pionk making more blunders getting the puck out of his zone which is why i brought him up. but not sure what the stats say overall in his efficiency. It's fully possible hes had alot of good plays too, but the bad ones are just stuck in my memory since they lead trouble for us. also so far in chances for vs against they're on the wrong side. Which is generally the case for the Jets when pionk is on the ice (of course not all of it is on him tho).

Overall, this is why imo we give up so many shots/chances with the extended dzone shifts of our players running around after failed attempts. and it's not like they're all that great at actually defending either.

anyway the Jets rank near the bottom of the league through 9 games in shots and chances given up when our top pair of morrissey-pionk have been out there. helle has been incredible in backstopping them to a tune of a .950 sv%.

demelo's game has been fine as of late. he had a rough one against NYR but since he's been fine. i also expect him to bounce back given his years of great play, especially last year while on the top pair.

 

[DRW204]

imo the last 5 or so games the Jets have cleaned up their zone exits a lot that has lead to less time spent in the Dzone. i found at the beginning of the year the reason that they got hemmed a lot was b/c of failed exits, turnovers at their own blue line etc. and led to lots of chances against. but that's been cleaned up i believe. i still dunno if they're really great at defending, but they've been better at defending less. Pionk notably after a rough start I think has been better in this regard.

5v5 hockey
league average for the year: xGA/60 - 2.63
Jets last 5 games: xGA/60 2.38, with bottom 5 in both shot-attempts, and SOGs Against

PK also rates quite well in that small time-frame. first off they're 8th in least in PK TOI/gp and 1st or 2nd best in shot-attempts, SOGs Against or xGA rates. small sample mins of course, but they've definitely tightened it up over the past couple weeks.

hope this trend continues

 

[Deno]

Not sure if this is the right thread for this but...

With Vegas lost to SHS tonight both the Jets and Knights are now tied for the lease amount of loses in the Western Conference so far this season at 4. They are tied for 3rd lease loses league wide.
I don't know about anyone else, but I never saw this comming.

 

[DRW204]

 

[DRW204]

Jets inching closer to middle of the pack after a rough start

 

[surixon]

Jets inching closer to middle of the pack after a rough start

I'm not really worried about our defensive play. It's been good lately and trending in the right direction. I'm pretty concerned with where the goals will come from. It seems we are trending to be a one line team that needs it's special teams going.

 

[KristichBabych]

Do you have some news about Stanley? Is he hurt or Is he bad? I was impress by him against the Habs in playoffs…At least, a team like Ottawa should go after him!!

 

[tbcwpg]

Do you have some news about Stanley? Is he hurt or Is he bad? I was impress by him against the Habs in playoffs…At least, a team like Ottawa should go after him!!

Some would say he's bad, but right now he's hurt.

 

[ecolad]

Well, looks like Heinola will get inserted into the lineup tonight against the Canes. While I`m pleased to see this happen, it seems to reinforce my view that a players personal development needs play absolutely no part in the org`s decisions. Why would they bring him up, only to not dress him for a game or two and get rusty, then elect to throw him in against one of the very best fore-checking teams in the league? Not exactly setting him up for success in my opinion.

 

[surixon]

Well, looks like Heinola will get inserted into the lineup tonight against the Canes. While I`m pleased to see this happen, it seems to reinforce my view that a players personal development needs play absolutely no part in the org`s decisions. Why would they bring him up, only to not dress him for a game or two and get rusty, then elect to throw him in against one of the very best fore-checking teams in the league? Not exactly setting him up for success in my opinion.

This org doesn't get how to insert dmen imo. He should have been in from day 1 of his recall but we needed to trot out the PB dmen for some games instead.

 

[ecolad]

This org doesn't get how to insert dmen imo. He should have been in from day 1 of his recall but we needed to trot out the PB dmen for some games instead.

Yeah, I wonder if they at least considered the benefits of inserting him in a home game, rather than away... .

 

[DRW204]

Well, looks like Heinola will get inserted into the lineup tonight against the Canes. While I`m pleased to see this happen, it seems to reinforce my view that a players personal development needs play absolutely no part in the org`s decisions. Why would they bring him up, only to not dress him for a game or two and get rusty, then elect to throw him in against one of the very best fore-checking teams in the league? Not exactly setting him up for success in my opinion.

this is similar to what happened last year. although not to the extent as you illustrated.

first NHL game against FLA Jan 25th when they were having an incredible offensive month. his last AHL game had come January 8th so over 2 weeks.

i don't follow other NHL teams prospects/PB decisions closely. but does this happen often?

 

[gojetsgo]

well I mean it's a good thing he wasn't playing earlier in the season if he got rusty after 4 days with out playing a game... considering we have had those breaks in the schedule already...

 

[KingBogo]

Well, looks like Heinola will get inserted into the lineup tonight against the Canes. While I`m pleased to see this happen, it seems to reinforce my view that a players personal development needs play absolutely no part in the org`s decisions. Why would they bring him up, only to not dress him for a game or two and get rusty, then elect to throw him in against one of the very best fore-checking teams in the league? Not exactly setting him up for success in my opinion.

Seems to me like they wanted him to get a certain amount of practice time and to get a little familiarity with a D partner. And isn’t Bones #1 priority to dress the lineup that he believes gives him the best chance to win? Not a big fan of the idea that the priory should be player development over winning games. Do you do this with all prospects or just certain ones?

 

[surixon]

Seems to me like they wanted him to get a certain amount of practice time and to get a little familiarity with a D partner. And isn’t Bones #1 priority to dress the lineup that he believes gives him the best chance to win? Not a big fan of the idea that the priory should be player development over winning games. Do you do this with all prospects or just certain ones?

I mean we haven't actually had any practice time inbetween games since he was called up so that rationale wouldn't make any sense.

Yes he's supposed to dress who he thinks will help him win but does this team win more playing a fringe PB guy or a top prospect? Also does the team win more down the stretch living with some mistakes from the top prospect with a much higher ceiling early on and reap the benefits later.

Also the notion that the NHL isn't a development league is silly. All players develop all the time. Look no further then JoMo who even in his mod 20's developed significantly the last year and a half into a good number 1 dmen.

Orgs always have to balance the now vs the near future.

 

[KingBogo]

I mean we haven't actually had any practice time inbetween games since he was called up so that rationale wouldn't make any sense.

Yes he's supposed to dress who he thinks will help him win but does this team win more playing a fringe PB guy or a top prospect? Also does the team win more down the stretch living with some mistakes from the top prospect with a much higher ceiling early on and reap the benefits later.

Also the notion that the NHL isn't a development league is silly. All players develop all the time. Look no further then JoMo who even in his mod 20's developed significantly the last year and a half into a good number 1 dmen.

Orgs always have to balance the now vs the near future.

Sorry, but the more people feel that the organization needs to bend over backwards for the prospect, doubt creeps in on how capable they are. And I didn't say prospects don't develop in the NHL, as of course they do. My point is winning games is the #1 priority, not the development of select players. The AHL is for prioritizing development. Once in the NHL development comes from increasing skill and confidence as the player faces a range of NHL competition.

And, it very well could be that Capo played the last 2 games because Bones believes his experience gave him a better chance of winning and that Ville is going in tonight because he doesn't want him to sit too long without playing.

 

[LowLefty]

Also the notion that the NHL isn't a development league is silly. All players develop all the time. Look no further then JoMo who even in his mod 20's developed significantly the last year and a half into a good number 1 dmen.

Not silly at all -
Players will continue to improve - especially those early in their careers - but the league is not set up to develop them. It's more of a natural progression for the players who have the talent to progress.

The A is a development league - the coaching staff are tasked with helping players develop certain aspects of their game to set them up for success in the NHL - where they will hopefully continue to improve.

I think it's important that we don't confuse development with how players progress with experience.

 

[voyageur]

Seems to me like they wanted him to get a certain amount of practice time and to get a little familiarity with a D partner. And isn’t Bones #1 priority to dress the lineup that he believes gives him the best chance to win? Not a big fan of the idea that the priory should be player development over winning games. Do you do this with all prospects or just certain ones?

I wonder if he gets any special teams reps tonight. Schmidt is going to be on PK1, with De Melo out. Good time to put Heinola on PP2, manage the defensive minutes, though the Jets have been good at not taking too many penalties, other than one guy who also draws his fair share.. If Heinola is getting any speical teams reps it won't be with the same guys he played with in preseason, as Wheeler barely played at all, and I'm not sure you would have seen Pionk and Heinola together in preseason either.

I am glad he gets the game tonight because he's had his best games at home, where the matchups are protected. Also like that Dillon is his partner, they played quite a few reps in preseason, and I think Samberg-Heinola would be a pairing that could make a coach nervous. This is where the vets can make the game easier for the young players.

Hope he gets on the scoreboard tonight.

 

[KingBogo]

I wonder if he gets any special teams reps tonight. Schmidt is going to be on PK1, with De Melo out. Good time to put Heinola on PP2, manage the defensive minutes, though the Jets have been good at not taking too many penalties, other than one guy who also draws his fair share.. If Heinola is getting any speical teams reps it won't be with the same guys he played with in preseason, as Wheeler barely played at all, and I'm not sure you would have seen Pionk and Heinola together in preseason either.

I am glad he gets the game tonight because he's had his best games at home, where the matchups are protected. Also like that Dillon is his partner, they played quite a few reps in preseason, and I think Samberg-Heinola would be a pairing that could make a coach nervous. This is where the vets can make the game easier for the young players.

Hope he gets on the scoreboard tonight.

I'm hopeful for him as well, and good point about playing him at home to help protect him on matchups. Ville on PP2, does make sense and they would have had some practice time with it over the last week.

 

[surixon]

Not silly at all -
Players will continue to improve - especially those early in their careers - but the league is not set up to develop them. It's more of a natural progression for the players who have the talent to progress.

The A is a development league - the coaching staff are tasked with helping players develop certain aspects of their game to set them up for success in the NHL - where they will hopefully continue to improve.

I think it's important that we don't confuse development with how players progress with experience.

I don't really agree with this. There is most certainly skill and other areas of growth. If there wasn't why even have coaching staffs that continue to work with players on certain things at the NHL level? Orgs could save millions a year if all the coaches needed to do was put the best players in and let them learn from experience and grow. All you need to do to understand that coaches inc
invest a lot of time in player development is to listen to Bones talk about Perfetti and what they are working with him on. It isn't just let him learn from experience, they are clearly trying to teach him different things.

Yeah a good chunk of growth happens due to experience but players are constantly working with skill coached and other experts to improve different facits of their games.

Sorry, but the more people feel that the organization needs to bend over backwards for the prospect, doubt creeps in on how capable they are. And I didn't say prospects don't develop in the NHL, as of course they do. My point is winning games is the #1 priority, not the development of select players. The AHL is for prioritizing development. Once in the NHL development comes from increasing skill and confidence as the player faces a range of NHL competition.

And, it very well could be that Capo played the last 2 games because Bones believes his experience gave him a better chance of winning and that Ville is going in tonight because he doesn't want him to sit too long without playing.

Who's saying they need to bend over backwards. He's played extremely well in the AHL and if you are going to call him up then you should play the kid. If you don't plan on using the kid leave him in the AHL.

 

[KingBogo]

I don't really agree with this. There is most certainly skill and other areas of growth. If there wasn't why even have coaching staffs that continue to work with players on certain things at the NHL level? Orgs could save millions a year if all the coaches needed to do was put the best players in and let them learn from experience and grow. All you need to do to understand that coaches inc
invest a lot of time in player development is to listen to Bones talk about Perfetti and what they are working with him on. It isn't just let him learn from experience, they are clearly trying to teach him different things.

Yeah a good chunk of growth happens due to experience but players are constantly working with skill coached and other experts to improve different facits of their games.



Who's saying they need to bend over backwards. He's played extremely well in the AHL and if you are going to call him up then you should play the kid. If you don't plan on using the kid leave him in the AHL.

I've been very hopeful for Ville, and have posted many times I'd like to see him be put into the lineup. IMO, it just goes over the line when he finally gets in, people are complaining that the conditions aren't perfect enough for his optimal development. Sorry that happens to every prospect, as the vast majority gets their opportunity when the team needs them to be next man up with injuries.

 

[surixon]

I've been very hopeful for Ville, and have posted many times I'd like to see him be put into the lineup. IMO, it just goes over the line when he finally gets in, people are complaining that the conditions aren't perfect enough for his optimal development. Sorry that happens to every prospect, as the vast majority gets their opportunity when the team needs them to be next man up with injuries.

As I posted in the game thread I'm fine with him playing tonight against a good team, just feel that he should have been in Saturday as well. I don't like having top prospects sit in the PB. If you call them up then use them if you don't want to use them let them keep playing in the AHL. The whole taxi squad issue with him sitting a month was not optimal for his development.

 

[ecolad]

Seems to me like they wanted him to get a certain amount of practice time and to get a little familiarity with a D partner. And isn’t Bones #1 priority to dress the lineup that he believes gives him the best chance to win? Not a big fan of the idea that the priory should be player development over winning games. Do you do this with all prospects or just certain ones?

Actually I do not see "winning games" and "successful player development" as two mutually exclusive things , with a coach having to choose one over the other. In fact, a good coach should be challenged to implement a planned, duration limited program on the big club whereby the prospect experiences accelerated learning, and, the org undertakes real time evaluation, as part of the job description.
It is unquestionably beneficial to run these programs at times when the big club is not under extra pressure to win - however, there is probably only a very weak correlation between running a program on a 3rd pairing D and a team losing the game. Keep in mind that my concept of a program is not the same as simply throwing the prospect into the game to see if he sinks or swims Depending upon the prospect, differing types of sheltering would be considered, perhaps even with shared ice-time. .And yes, a program would be implemented for each of those prospects that the org judges to be nearly nhl ready ,with potential to either keep in the org or to trade away. The benefits to the org in furthering it`s evaluation of these prospects just prior to key decision dates is significant.

 

[LowLefty]

I don't really agree with this. There is most certainly skill and other areas of growth. If there wasn't why even have coaching staffs that continue to work with players on certain things at the NHL level? Orgs could save millions a year if all the coaches needed to do was put the best players in and let them learn from experience and grow. All you need to do to understand that coaches inc

Building lines, roster decisions, practice to improve execution based on systems, team building, communication (media and otherwise), game plan, work ethic, and so on.
Those are some of the things coaches do - and if you want to call that development, I'm fine with that.

 

[surixon]

Building lines, roster decisions, practice to improve execution based on systems, team building, communication (media and otherwise), game plan, work ethic, and so on.
Those are some of the things coaches do - and if you want to call that development, I'm fine with that.

Yes I would call a good amount of what coaches do as development.

I would also say players develop a lot from watching their peers and listening to them especially if some of the vets are stars/former stars. While I don't care that much for the stylistic fit I think there is a reason they want Cole with a former star play driving playmaker in Blake. I'm sure he has a lot of wisdom and tricks to pass down.