Player Discussion: Winnipeg Jets Defense

voyageur

Hockey fanatic
Jul 10, 2011
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I agree that the 6th spot needs to be a defensive Dman -
I also believe the org is looking for a certain type of game from Stan and it's not offense -
He may not be able to provide that game - in that case, Snerg has a huge opportunity to take that spot and keep it.

It's pretty obvious that the org is trying to transition their big damn into a D first player - why else would you pair him with Smitty. You know that his size is a factor they want to exploit. But the skill has to be there or it's a dream.

I think Bones is going to work hard to make this square peg fit into a round hole - but in the end, even a Stan fan like myself understands the odds are long on Stan getting up to speed (literally) before Snerg is in the lineup.

I want to see the best D group iced - and I don't think the Jets think otherwise - so your lineup is likely where the dust settles - soon.
Stanley provides a physical element that Samberg doesn't have. And that will be needed as the games amp up. Samberg's skating will prevent more 2 on 1s, as he is not likely to get caught flat footed or cheat for offense too much. I thought Stanley was ok on the PK last night, but was also a little lucky he didn't get burnt. I wonder if the Jets push Nate Schmidt up to the top pairing and drop De Melo to level off the defensive pairings. De Melo had some pretty bad turnovers under pressure last night. Schmidt is more of a top 4 d-man, even if a little defensively challenged.

I don't mind the idea of Samberg and Stanley platooning either, off the hop.
 
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LowLefty

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Stanley provides a physical element that Samberg doesn't have. And that will be needed as the games amp up. Samberg's skating will prevent more 2 on 1s, as he is not likely to get caught flat footed or cheat for offense too much. I thought Stanley was ok on the PK last night, but was also a little lucky he didn't get burnt. I wonder if the Jets push Nate Schmidt up to the top pairing and drop De Melo to level off the defensive pairings. De Melo had some pretty bad turnovers under pressure last night. Schmidt is more of a top 4 d-man, even if a little defensively challenged.

I don't mind the idea of Samberg and Stanley platooning either, off the hop.
It was only one game so they will want to take another look after a few games -

Here's how I see it in the current scenario (and I'd assume the org is looking at it the same way) - some of this lines up with your points:

They want Stan to be physical and lean more towards a defensive game over offense - that's why he's with Smitty. He'll get that opportunity and if it doesn't work out, Samberg comes in and provides the defense with less of a physical game. But I think you are right - they want Stan to be more physical - we don't have much of that on the blueline.

They expect Demelo to be Demelo - solid on D while JoMo can use some of his offensive game.
TBH, I don't feel Demelo can add to much physical - maybe some but not as much as he was trying to apply last night - he doesn't have the size.

IMO, JoMo is our best over all Dman - he likely wants the opportunity to swing his game to offense (again, I'd assume the org is supporting that with him being paired with Demelo). He'll also be asked to display his defense (which is good) - that, in combination with what Demelo brings, should be enough as long as Demelo isn't being asked to take on too much (physically) - this should be a balanced pair that can defend and generate offense.

I found it interesting last night to see Demelo getting more involved in the offense - not sure if he is being asked to do that or assumes he is should be under Bone's request to activate the blueline. Regardless, that's a new element for him and might be adding some stress to his ability to do what he was always asked to focus on - defending. There may be a need to fine tune expectations for each of our defenders to ensure they understand their role under the new message / systems.

Anyway, I think they leave it as is for now - and fine tune expectations. I also think Stan is on a short lease but will get the opportunity. I believe they want a more physical game from him and if they can't get it soon, Samberg will be coming in and the game plan changes to a bottom pairing that will be balanced but less physical. Some here will probably disagree with my assessment of Samberg but I really don't see him as a physical player - more of a stay at home defender. And I assume Bones is trying to add more a more physical element (similar to Dillon).

I don't see anything carved in stone here -
 

bumblebeeman

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Mar 16, 2016
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It was only one game so they will want to take another look after a few games -

Here's how I see it in the current scenario (and I'd assume the org is looking at it the same way) - some of this lines up with your points:

They want Stan to be physical and lean more towards a defensive game over offense - that's why he's with Smitty. He'll get that opportunity and if it doesn't work out, Samberg comes in and provides the defense with less of a physical game. But I think you are right - they want Stan to be more physical - we don't have much of that on the blueline.

They expect Demelo to be Demelo - solid on D while JoMo can use some of his offensive game.
TBH, I don't feel Demelo can add to much physical - maybe some but not as much as he was trying to apply last night - he doesn't have the size.

IMO, JoMo is our best over all Dman - he likely wants the opportunity to swing his game to offense (again, I'd assume the org is supporting that with him being paired with Demelo). He'll also be asked to display his defense (which is good) - that, in combination with what Demelo brings, should be enough as long as Demelo isn't being asked to take on too much (physically) - this should be a balanced pair that can defend and generate offense.

I found it interesting last night to see Demelo getting more involved in the offense - not sure if he is being asked to do that or assumes he is should be under Bone's request to activate the blueline. Regardless, that's a new element for him and might be adding some stress to his ability to do what he was always asked to focus on - defending. There may be a need to fine tune expectations for each of our defenders to ensure they understand their role under the new message / systems.

Anyway, I think they leave it as is for now - and fine tune expectations. I also think Stan is on a short lease but will get the opportunity. I believe they want a more physical game from him and if they can't get it soon, Samberg will be coming in and the game plan changes to a bottom pairing that will be balanced but less physical. Some here will probably disagree with my assessment of Samberg but I really don't see him as a physical player - more of a stay at home defender. And I assume Bones is trying to add more a more physical element (similar to Dillon).

I don't see anything carved in stone here -

It will be interesting to see how that works with Stanley and giving other guys a shot. Under Maurice it always seemed like he would keep a roster/lines together as long as it was winning, but as soon as it wasn't he would take the blender out. Maybe that's how most teams are run, but it does seem a little short sighted when there is someone like Samberg waiting in the PB
 

BoneDocUK

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Oct 1, 2015
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They were never going to put Big Stan on waivers.

The weird one for me was keeping Capo while waiving Kovi. That just made no sense and still doesn't. It was this season's Comrie move.

Kovy may well have made as good a 6/7 D as Stan, adding some mobility and smarts and giving up 3". Who is Capo and what does he do? Perhaps time will reveal all.
 
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TommyKillian

Registered User
Dec 12, 2013
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The Jets organization is too stubborn to admit Stanley is a bust. Kovacevic is no Bobby Orr, but he's going to have a better career than Stanley.
I'm losing faith that Chevy can put together a lineup of competent defensemen. The organization's assessment of d-men has been relatively bad throughout its history. If Atlanta didn't come here with Enstrom and Buff would we ever have had a solid top 6 like we did from 2016 to 2018? I am still holding out hope the Bowness' systems can elevate some of our current d men but it's never going to be a strength.
 
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DRW204

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Dec 26, 2010
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I'm losing faith that Chevy can put together a lineup of competent defensemen. The organization's assessment of d-men has been relatively bad throughout its history. If Atlanta didn't come here with Enstrom and Buff would we ever have had a solid top 6 like we did from 2016 to 2018? I am still holding out hope the Bowness' systems can elevate some of our current d men but it's never going to be a strength.
trouba, morrissey are the only top-4 calibre dmen they've drafted in 11 years. both were top half picks.

then consider you have stanley who they have had ahead of heinola or samberg. are those 2 worse than Stanley? or is bad assessment as you say? :dunno:
 

Jetsfan79

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Jul 12, 2011
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I know it's still early . But I keep remembering what Maurice once said about the Jets . He conceded that the Jets are just not constructed to be that "defensive grind it out team". is it possible the issue is not slipping into "bad habits" but rather this team doesn't have the roster DNA to play tight defensive minded hockey ?. Or atleast not consistently. The relapse to "bad habits ' may be moreso a symptom to that inability to play that defensive team system rather than a habitual problem.
 

voyageur

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Jul 10, 2011
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I know it's still early . But I keep remembering what Maurice once said about the Jets . He conceded that the Jets are just not constructed to be that "defensive grind it out team". is it possible the issue is not slipping into "bad habits" but rather this team doesn't have the roster DNA to play tight defensive minded hockey ?. Or atleast not consistently. The relapse to "bad habits ' may be moreso a symptom to that inability to play that defensive team system rather than a habitual problem.
I think having centres who play both ends of the ice can negate scoring chances. I don't think the Jets defense is able to play high octane with guys like Dillon and De Melo on defense, their strength is defending. Samberg as well. The hardest team to play against is the one that can keep the puck in the offensive zone, and you wonder how long it is before the Jets want to use Heinola's breakout abilities.
 

DRW204

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Dec 26, 2010
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this is at Even-Strength since Pionk scored a couple goals at 4v4 and 3v3. team is 3.02 xGA/60 at even strength (23rd in the NHL). early of course.
1666386726362.png
 

Monty9

Registered User
Jul 5, 2021
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Hey now that's "Leading Scorer Neal Pionk" to you!
Pionk giveth and he taketh away…a bit of both lately. I expect the year to be a net negative. The more offensive he plays the more horrible he is defensively.
 

AlaskaJet

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Pionk giveth and he taketh away…a bit of both lately. I expect the year to be a net negative. The more offensive he plays the more horrible he is defensively.
That may be, but if he can get into the O ice with fwds covering up, then get back quickly enough, he may yet redeem himself further.
The Laffs game should reveal whether this is at least possible.
 

Jet

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That may be, but if he can get into the O ice with fwds covering up, then get back quickly enough, he may yet redeem himself further.
The Laffs game should reveal whether this is at least possible.
I wonder how a pionk Samberg pair would do? Sambergs simple d game might compliment Pionk and he's agile enough to hang.

Demelo has struggled a bit, I wonder if he's putting too much pressure to be part of the solution re: offense from the defense? That's never been his game.
 

DRW204

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Pionk giveth and he taketh away…a bit of both lately. I expect the year to be a net negative. The more offensive he plays the more horrible he is defensively.
Pretty much. The goals are nice, he should smash his career of 6 but he and Morrissey need to tighten up defensively.
 
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surixon

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Jul 12, 2003
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Pretty much. The goals are nice, he should smash his career of 6 but he and Morrissey need to tighten up defensively.

To be fair a good amount of those stats came from the Colorado game. They were a net even last game against Vegas in XGF%.
 

AlaskaJet

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I wonder how a pionk Samberg pair would do? Sambergs simple d game might compliment Pionk and he's agile enough to hang.

Demelo has struggled a bit, I wonder if he's putting too much pressure to be part of the solution re: offense from the defense? That's never been his game.
Both of those player combinations are ones that might just click..well thought out!
 
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DRW204

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To be fair a good amount of those stats came from the Colorado game. They were a net even last game against Vegas in XGF%.
Not really. At even strength Xga here's our top pair (Morrissey, since he's been the mainstay)
20221022_102218.jpg

And I hesitate to use xgf% as a defense stat. For example: morrissey and demelo combined for 1 SOG against NYR but scored high V good in XGF and xgf%.

so playing behind our top line for instance which were buzzing they just accumulated high on ice chances for. I dont think either are really high contributors to generating chances either. Similarly I look at defenseman to primarily limiting chances against (xga) although ofc fwds need to help too.
 

DannyGallivan

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Aug 25, 2017
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Stanley provides a physical element that Samberg doesn't have.
This is all about choice. Samberg has some size, yet Pionk has more grit. That is a hole in his game that is entirely correctable if he choose to. Say what you will about Stanley, at least he tries to be mean. Like it or not pacifists, you still need "truculence" to succeed in the NHL. There's no reason why Samberg can't provide some.
 
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DannyGallivan

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I wonder how a pionk Samberg pair would do? Sambergs simple d game might compliment Pionk and he's agile enough to hang.

Demelo has struggled a bit, I wonder if he's putting too much pressure to be part of the solution re: offense from the defense? That's never been his game.
Demelo has really looked rough lately. Whenever I see such a drop off, I usually expect a "nagging injury".
 
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