Player Discussion: Winnipeg Jets Defense

[Mortimer Snerd]

Seems to me like they wanted him to get a certain amount of practice time and to get a little familiarity with a D partner. And isn’t Bones #1 priority to dress the lineup that he believes gives him the best chance to win? Not a big fan of the idea that the priory should be player development over winning games. Do you do this with all prospects or just certain ones?

If dressing Capo gave him the best chance to win against Pens why doesn't it against Canes? Familiarity with partner? Which potential partner is he not familiar with?

 

[Jack7222]

Actually I do not see "winning games" and "successful player development" as two mutually exclusive things , with a coach having to choose one over the other. In fact, a good coach should be challenged to implement a planned, duration limited program on the big club whereby the prospect experiences accelerated learning, and, the org undertakes real time evaluation, as part of the job description.
It is unquestionably beneficial to run these programs at times when the big club is not under extra pressure to win - however, there is probably only a very weak correlation between running a program on a 3rd pairing D and a team losing the game. Keep in mind that my concept of a program is not the same as simply throwing the prospect into the game to see if he sinks or swims Depending upon the prospect, differing types of sheltering would be considered, perhaps even with shared ice-time. .And yes, a program would be implemented for each of those prospects that the org judges to be nearly nhl ready ,with potential to either keep in the org or to trade away. The benefits to the org in furthering it`s evaluation of these prospects just prior to key decision dates is significant.

Pretty much how they did it with Stanley, is it not? Heavy sheltering, a strong partner, and a lot of leash.

Hoping for them to take a similar tack with Heinola and set him up for success. Not really a big fan of looking at Heinola's first game of the season as a big "test" to see if he's worthy or not.

 

[KingBogo]

If dressing Capo gave him the best chance to win against Pens why doesn't it against Canes? Familiarity with partner? Which potential partner is he not familiar with?

I was mostly saying what ifs...in reality most of us have little idea of what is going on at the actual decision making level of Bones and his assistants.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Actually I do not see "winning games" and "successful player development" as two mutually exclusive things , with a coach having to choose one over the other. In fact, a good coach should be challenged to implement a planned, duration limited program on the big club whereby the prospect experiences accelerated learning, and, the org undertakes real time evaluation, as part of the job description.
It is unquestionably beneficial to run these programs at times when the big club is not under extra pressure to win - however, there is probably only a very weak correlation between running a program on a 3rd pairing D and a team losing the game. Keep in mind that my concept of a program is not the same as simply throwing the prospect into the game to see if he sinks or swims Depending upon the prospect, differing types of sheltering would be considered, perhaps even with shared ice-time. .And yes, a program would be implemented for each of those prospects that the org judges to be nearly nhl ready ,with potential to either keep in the org or to trade away. The benefits to the org in furthering it`s evaluation of these prospects just prior to key decision dates is significant.

Coach has to go with the lineup that gives him the best chance of winning, but it is not limited to winning today's game. It is which lineup will give the best chance of winning more games on the season.

 

[Buffdog]

Typical HFJets

Jets are winning! -"Yeah, but they aren't doing it right"

"We want Ville in the line up"

*Ville gets inserted in the line up - "Yeah, but they aren't doing it right"

 

[10Ducky10]

Here's hoping Ville the Kid has an excellent game and it makes Bones' and Chevy's decisions on the left side even harder.
I'd really like to see Stanley included in a trade in a deal for a 2nd line RWer.

 

[Jack7222]

Typical HFJets

Jets are winning! -"Yeah, but they aren't doing it right"

"We want Ville in the line up"

*Ville gets inserted in the line up - "Yeah, but they aren't doing it right"

You know you can just talk to ecolad directly on this message board instead of invoking some vague forum Avatar.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I was mostly saying what ifs...in reality most of us have little idea of what is going on at the actual decision making level of Bones and his assistants.

That's true, but there is always the part that is visible.

On a bit of a side note - One loss and the criticism of Bones has started. It was inevitable.
Some of it is probably well founded, but I thought that game was a toss up. Could have gone either way, depending on who scored first.

Team D is better.
PK is a lot better.
PP is hard to distinguish from last year's.
Something has to change to get some scoring. Heinola might help with that.

I thought Capo played well in his first game. Earned another. I thought he was very bad in his 2nd. Should have sat. So Heinola sat 1 more game than I would have liked. Big deal. I hope he can handle Canes forecheck well enough and maybe spark a little offence somewhere.

I think it is in the top 6 that we really need to look for improvement. I would put Harkins in with Scheif and sit Flowbee. See how that goes.

 

[KingBogo]

You know you can just talk to ecolad directly on this message board instead of invoking some vague forum Avatar.

Except this has been a pretty common theme for many years now and it is far broader than any 1 poster.

 

[Jack7222]

Except this has been a pretty common theme for many years now and it is far broader than any 1 poster.

Labeling people according to your personal version of "historical forum themes", always a good way to promote healthy discussion...

Maybe if "HFboards" didn't take every single little criticism of the org as some kind of salvo in an ongoing 'forum war', mild criticisms like this wouldn't get blown up into big arguments as often.

 

[KingBogo]

That's true, but there is always the part that is visible.

On a bit of a side note - One loss and the criticism of Bones has started. It was inevitable.
Some of it is probably well founded, but I thought that game was a toss up. Could have gone either way, depending on who scored first.

Team D is better.
PK is a lot better.
PP is hard to distinguish from last year's.
Something has to change to get some scoring. Heinola might help with that.

I thought Capo played well in his first game. Earned another. I thought he was very bad in his 2nd. Should have sat. So Heinola sat 1 more game than I would have liked. Big deal. I hope he can handle Canes forecheck well enough and maybe spark a little offence somewhere.

I think it is in the top 6 that we really need to look for improvement. I would put Harkins in with Scheif and sit Flowbee. See how that goes.

Not sure about your last line, but agree with most of this. Especially the need for improvement in the top 6. I don't think we have an internal candidate that is anywhere ready for the NHL. IMO Chevy needs to go find a solution.

Labelling people according to your personal version of "historical forum themes", always a good way to promote healthy discussion...

Not sure how it was labeling people?

 

[Buffdog]

You know you can just talk to ecolad directly on this message board instead of invoking some vague forum Avatar.

And you're welcome to use the ignore button

We could all just message each other privately I guess, but it would sort of defeat the purpose of a public forum.

Of course the biggest irony here is you could have dm'd me that post privately too, yet here we are

 

[Jack7222]

And you're welcome to use the ignore button

We could all just message each other privately I guess, but it would sort of defeat the purpose of a public forum.

Of course the biggest irony here is you could have dm'd me that post privately too, yet here we are

I'm not talking about private messages, I'm talking about openly discussing the thing the actual person said, that's all. And I wouldn't ignore your posts, I like them

Anyway I'm sure we're all hoping for Heinola to have a good game regardless.

 

[Buffdog]

I'm not talking about private messages, I'm talking about openly discussing the thing the actual person said, that's all. And I wouldn't ignore your posts, I like them

Anyway I'm sure we're all hoping for Heinola to have a good game regardless.

Sorry, saw "talk directly" and assumed you meant direct message. My post was a bit of a direct poke at Ecolad, but more of a general poke at those on here who "aren't happy unless they aren't happy".

As for liking my posts, I'm not sure whats wrong with you lol

At any rate, I wonder how much of the decision to insert Ville is because management feels he earned it vs placating him. Or could this be a showcase opportunity?

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Except this has been a pretty common theme for many years now and it is far broader than any 1 poster.

Are there boards where that is NOT common?

 

[KingBogo]

Are there boards where that is NOT common?

Doubt it, but I don't go wondering too far. I'm getting old and pretty settled. Honestly differing opinions make this place interesting, but I've long realized that no event can happen that someone won't have a complaint about. After we win the cup, I'll guarantee there will be complaints about who the captain first hands off the cup to.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Not sure about your last line, but agree with most of this. Especially the need for improvement in the top 6. I don't think we have an internal candidate that is anywhere ready for the NHL. IMO Chevy needs to go find a solution.


Not sure how it was labeling people?

I don't disagree with the need for a better option in the top 6. But I can't see who to get or what price to pay. I'd like Boeser (I think) but I think the price to acquire would be too steep. And then how do we manage the cap when Ehlers is ready to come back in 2-3 months?

Harkins has always played well in (very limited) opportunities to play in the top 6 before. I think it suits him better than a checking role. What would happen in an extended stay in the top 6 is unknown. But he has speed and he works hard so it could work. It can't be any worse than what we have tried so far. Nothing to lose.

 

[snowkiddin]

Doubt it, but I don't go wondering too far. I'm getting old and pretty settled. Honestly differing opinions make this place interesting, but I've long realized that no event can happen that someone won't have a complaint about. After we win the cup, I'll guarantee there will be complaints about who the captain first hands off the cup to.

I like your optimism

 

[KingBogo]

I like your optimism

It will happen one day. That I believe in. Why be a fan otherwise?

 

[JetsFan815]

Jets xGA appears to be stabalizing in these last few games. Rolling 5 game average of Jets xGA.

Random fluctuation? Ease of competition? Rick Bowness effect? Remains to be seen.

 

[KingBogo]

I don't disagree with the need for a better option in the top 6. But I can't see who to get or what price to pay. I'd like Boeser (I think) but I think the price to acquire would be too steep. And then how do we manage the cap when Ehlers is ready to come back in 2-3 months?

Harkins has always played well in (very limited) opportunities to play in the top 6 before. I think it suits him better than a checking role. What would happen in an extended stay in the top 6 is unknown. But he has speed and he works hard so it could work. It can't be any worse than what we have tried so far. Nothing to lose.

Boeser was one of my thoughts as well. What do you think the cost would be?

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Doubt it, but I don't go wondering too far. I'm getting old and pretty settled. Honestly differing opinions make this place interesting, but I've long realized that no event can happen that someone won't have a complaint about. After we win the cup, I'll guarantee there will be complaints about who the captain first hands off the cup to.

Probably true. I'm sure I have seen that exact thing from fans of a team that has actually won something.

Nothing pleases everybody. No one is ever completely pleased.

Too much complaining about the complaining might tend to inhibit open discussion a bit.
Sometimes what appears to be complaining is just noting imperfection - for discussion's sake.

 

[snowkiddin]

It will happen one day. That I believe in. Why be a fan otherwise?

I just genuinely enjoy watching hockey, and following the players (especially prospects) is always fun.

The Bombers sucked my entire life until 2019, so the payoff there was incredible. The amount of joy I’ll experience if the Jets win the Cup will make a lifetime of watching worth it.

 

[KingBogo]

I just genuinely enjoy watching hockey, and following the players (especially prospects) is always fun.

The Bombers sucked my entire life until 2019, so the payoff there was incredible. The amount of joy I’ll experience if the Jets win the Cup will make a lifetime of watching worth it.

I was a young adult during the 80's and experienced their 3 cups from 84-90. I was actually in Edmonton for the 1st of that run in 84. I also remember the joy of the AVCO cups and went to quite a few games during some of those runs, but agreed nothing will match a Stanley Cup.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Boeser was one of my thoughts as well. What do you think the cost would be?

Depends on how badly Van wants to get something done. Their cap situation gives them some incentive.

It would be futures based. I expect they would ask for Perfetti but hard to say what would be next when they get a flat NO to that. How much value would Lucius have for them? Similar draft position to what Boeser went at, also a RHS. Drafted out of the same league. Lucius had the higher ppg in that league in draft year but in a Covid shortened season. I would do that. Don't know that Van would be interested though. NO, I'm sure they would be interested. Not sure if they would consider that enough though. And we would probably need them to retain about 2 mil. That would increase the size of the add they would need.