Player Discussion: Winnipeg Jets Defense

[surixon]

Who knew having skill actually mattered......?

Again begs the question, where the F has Heinola been?

I am shocked I say, completely shocked. In the end its always about skill.

 

[BoneDocUK]

Who knew having skill actually mattered......?

Again begs the question, where the F has Heinola been?

Insufficiently embiggened, and over-Finned -- as Big Dave eloquently remarked, the kid is playing too well, so it's time to head back to the farm -- Whoops, nope, it's the press-box as an emergency call-up -- And, potty kid, back to the Moose for a game or two-- Oh dear, back to the PB as an emergency call-up again....

Second season in a row with absolutely baffling treatment of a blue-chip D prospect in Heinola. I love the way he plays and his upside but I now think the org ship him out for yet another big-bodied chip'n'chaser with moar creaseclearability,

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

Well, guess I'd better not make any more comparisons to body parts.

 

[surixon]

Insufficiently embiggened, and over-Finned -- as Big Dave eloquently remarked, the kid is playing too well, so it's time to head back to the farm -- Whoops, nope, it's the press-box as an emergency call-up -- And, potty kid, back to the Moose for a game or two-- Oh dear, back to the PB as an emergency call-up again....

Second season in a row with absolutely baffling treatment of a blue-chip D prospect in Heinola. I love the way he plays and his upside but I now think the org ship him out for yet another big-bodied chip'n'chaser with moar creaseclearability,

I swear this organization doesn't understand dmen. Or there is some massive power struggle between the old school guys who push the old school dmen and the guys pushing the new age players.

Heinola should be playing. Outside of Perfetti he really is are only other prospect with upper echelon upside. It would be an absolute travesty to move him and se ehom blossom elsewhere.

But we have to watch Stabley slug it around on the third pairing because he's older and is big.

 

[Jet]

The pionk Dillon pair should be much better than it is. I think it's a bit too do with pionk struggling somewhat, and partly due to our atrocious d scheme.

I agree that heinola should come in for Stanley. He's just not getting it done right now

 

[LowLefty]

I swear this organization doesn't understand dmen. Or there is some massive power struggle between the old school guys who push the old school dmen and the guys pushing the new age players.

Heinola should be playing. Outside of Perfetti he really is are only other prospect with upper echelon upside. It would be an absolute travesty to move him and se ehom blossom elsewhere.

But we have to watch Stabley slug it around on the third pairing because he's older and is big.

I'd be surprised if they moved Ville -

Probably has more to do with waiting for him to develop a little more physically and learn how to "compete" in more of a physical manner.
It's not about big vs small - but size is a plus if you can combine it with skill and compete. The NHL is a physical game and having a little more weight is a plus - but that's only part of it.

I have no issue with Ville playing now - but I do consider the state of our blue line and the tangled mess that is on most nights -
Is that the best place to drop Ville? Will it really do him or the Jets any good by moving him in now or waiting for a coach that might be able to first get these guys moving in the same direction.

 

[10Ducky10]

Trade Dillon to Philly.
They're hurting so much for D men they gave Risto 5.1m for 5 bloody years!!!

 

[surixon]

I'd be surprised if they moved Ville -

Probably has more to do with waiting for him to develop a little more physically and learn how to "compete" in more of a physical manner.
It's not about big vs small - but size is a plus if you can combine it with skill and compete. The NHL is a physical game and having a little more weight is a plus - but that's only part of it.

I have no issue with Ville playing now - but I do consider the state of our blue line and the tangled mess that is on most nights -
Is that the best place to drop Ville? Will it really do him or the Jets any good by moving him in now or waiting for a coach that might be able to first get these guys moving in the same direction.

The issue is he's not developing at all riding the pine. Once again the org has him buried in the PB to end the year. Play him or put him on the Moose.

If he is up the least they could do is rotate him in and out of the lineup with Stanley.

The whole the defense is bad thing isn't much of a reason not to play him. Move DeMelo back down and Schmidt up and you then have a good and steady partner for Ville.

 

[Adam da bomb]

The issue is he's not developing at all riding the pine. Once again the org has him buried in the PB to end the year. Play him or put him on the Moose.

If he is up the least they could do is rotate him in and out of the lineup with Stanley.

The whole the defense is bad thing isn't much of a reason not to play him. Move DeMelo back down and Schmidt up and you then have a good and steady partner for Ville.

Stanley has played better as of lately. There was a rough middle. He also is not good enough to drag around Schmidt. That being said I’d rather see Samberg or Heinola Who have much higher ceilings and are better. But just want dispel Stan being garbage.
stan is our worst d so should be the first out but others have definitely failed to live up to expectation a lot more. After all if you are pointing to the D who is expected to be the worst as the worst that’s low hanging fruit.

 

[surixon]

Stanley has played better as of lately. There was a rough middle. He also is not good enough to drag around Schmidt. That being said I’d rather see Samberg or Heinola Who have much higher ceilings and are better. But just want dispel Stan being garbage.

Stanley has the worst GAR of any dmwn on the team. He isn't garbage but he's not good enough to keep getting playing time when there are better options.

 

[Duke749]

Stanley has the worst GAR of any dmwn on the team. He isn't garbage but he's not good enough to keep getting playing time when there are better options.

I remember that stretch earlier in the year when he was hurt and we kept running rookies back there and you could easily see the difference. The obsession with Stanley by the coaching staff is honestly infuriating.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Stanley has the worst GAR of any dmwn on the team. He isn't garbage but he's not good enough to keep getting playing time when there are better options.

Gar sounds like something a pirate would say. Doesn’t he also have more points in the last 5 games than Schmidt. Also he should have the worst numbers he’s paid less than a quarter of the other guys.
and I’ve already agreed he shouldn’t be in the line up but I’m more disappointed by Dillion and Pionk two guys who are supposed to be top 4 d.

 

[surixon]

Gar sounds like something a pirate would say. Doesn’t he also have more points in the last 5 games than Schmidt. Also he should have the worst numbers he’s paid less than a quarter of the other guys.

Sure they should be better then him but that isn't an excuse to keep him in if we have a better option in the PB.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Sure they should be better then him but that isn't an excuse to keep him in if we have a better option in the PB.

Never said it was. Just said, that the other guys are more of a letdown. I have been on the Heinola or Samberg train for awhile. But pointing to him as the problem for our bad D is weak.

 

[surixon]

Never said it was. Just said, that the other guys are more of a letdown. I have been on the Heinola or Samberg train for awhile. But pointing to him as the problem for our bad D is weak.

Schmidt is who I thought he was, Dillion has been a massive disappointment as has Pionk.

 

[LowLefty]

The issue is he's not developing at all riding the pine. Once again the org has him buried in the PB to end the year. Play him or put him on the Moose.

If he is up the least they could do is rotate him in and out of the lineup with Stanley.

The whole the defense is bad thing isn't much of a reason not to play him. Move DeMelo back down and Schmidt up and you then have a good and steady partner for Ville.

The D is bad and he is not going to help it any - he's likely going to make is worse considering how badly they are mauled most nights.
He's under sized and soft as butter - he'll likely get hurt before he actually "develops" playing under those conditions -

I know many want him up and playing - I don't really care to tell you the truth. I'm simply adding a reason he might not be playing which might make more sense than simply stating the org doesn't understand Dmen.

 

[surixon]

The D is bad and he is not going to help it any - he's likely going to make is worse considering how badly they are mauled most nights.
He's under sized and soft as butter - he'll likely get hurt before he actually "develops" playing under those conditions -

I know many want him up and playing - I don't really care to tell you the truth. I'm simply adding a reason he might not be playing which might make more sense than simply stating the org doesn't understand Dmen.

It's not just about helping it, it's about having him go through his learning curve now while the team isn't expected to do anything so that he is ready to come in and play effectively from the get go next year.

He's learned all he needs to at AHL level, time to move to the next level.

 

[Imcanadianeh]

Weirdly enough Dillon and Stanley, the Jets most “gritty” defenseman have the two best GF% of all Jets defenseman.

As bad as Stanley has been his xGF% is significantly better than Sambergs and is practically the exact same as Heinola, obviously Heinola and Sambegs sample size is pretty small.

 

[DRW204]

Thread

 

[BobTheSolarsystem]

Would like to see Heinola-Pionk again - they had chemistry... but then we have a $10+ million third pairing...

 

[Imcanadianeh]

Thread

I didn’t really look at this yet but Heinola and Schmidt have only played 37 mins together so it seems pretty pointless to even look at their stats together.

It’s Garret and he’s never been a huge fan of Stanley to say the least so I’m guessing it’s in Heionla’s favor, granted that’s not saying much because Stanley has had a rough year so far.

Granted Heinola in the very little amount he has played has had brutal metrics over the last two seasons.

 

[Duke749]

I didn’t really look at this yet but Heinola and Schmidt have only played 37 mins together so it seems pretty pointless to even look at their stats together.

It’s Garret and he’s never been a huge fan of Stanley to say the least so I’m guessing it’s in Heionla’s favor, granted that’s not saying much because Stanley has had a rough year so far.

Granted Heinola in the very little amount he has played has had brutal metrics over the last two seasons.

Is there anything that we’ve seen that suggest Stanley has played better then Heinola this year? Otherwise your point about Garret being bias is your own bias against someone’s evidence because it doesn’t always align with what you see.

 

[DRW204]

Is there anything that we’ve seen that suggest Stanley has played better then Heinola this year? Otherwise your point about Grant being bias is your own bias against someone’s evidence because it doesn’t always align with what you see.

Logan Stanley is 6'7

 

[10Ducky10]

Samberg is the one I want to see get 10 or so games before the end of the season.
Stanimal should be no better than our 4th or 5th LHD next season if none of them are moved.

 

[Imcanadianeh]

Is there anything that we’ve seen that suggest Stanley has played better then Heinola this year? Otherwise your point about Garret being bias is your own bias against someone’s evidence because it doesn’t always align with what you see.

I’m not even a Stanley fan, nor have I ever gone out of my way to defend him, in my post I specifically say Stanley hasn’t been good this year.

I’m willing to bet the stats say Stanley hasn’t been good and that aligns with what I see.

My point is comparing stats when one has a 37 min sample is pointless because at that point one or two good/bad shifts next game will completely change their stats.