OT: Winnipeg Blue Bombers 2023 Season - Another terrible disappointment. NEXT: Tough Decisions on How to Rebuild.

[BobTheSolarsystem]

Did they make any personnel changes in the 2nd half on the O Line? I really don't know what changed, other than they just stepped up. Jekyll and Hyde.

I thought our run D has been fine this year apart from yesterday's 1st half. My thought is that Calgary did a good job of finding a scheme that exploited something in our D, but then we adjusted enough in the 2nd half. Although it also seemed to me that they stopped running the ball as much after we stopped them once or twice - maybe they gave up a bit too easy.

But I agree, not as dominant as past years so far... VERY high bar... it's fun backing a good team!

Totally agree - I'd just like to see a consistent OL game to game...

And again, these criticisms are meager compared to the losing years....

In a close game, where both offenses are moving the ball, but not scoring, I think a Rouge can be a weapon - especially if you kick them from midfield or beyond.

I'd also like Osh to go for more 2 point converts - Im surprised that isn't more of a thing in regular season games

 

[Jetland162702]

When I see the Calgary uniforms I get a little nostalgic and remember my first job when I was a cook at KFC.

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

Only a complete idiot would be freaking out and calling for the DC’s execution after the first quarter

I think the BC game freaked a lot of people and this game certainly mirrored that one for the first quarter and a half. The offensive line looks pretty washed, that’s my biggest concern. Collaros is gonna get hurt if they don’t clean things up. We’ll see if they do.

Defensive line is starting to take over which is a big component to the success of Richie Hall’s schemes. Haba is good but Jeffcoat has been stellar. If he can stay healthy and Willie can continue on his 2019-like tear we are gonna be a handful.

I’m pretty invested in this team and so I go through highs and lows but ultimately I’m thinking/hoping the BC game was just a fluke. TSN has done their best to hype up Toronto but I don’t really see it with them.

If Collaros can stay healthy we should have such a significant advantage over every other team. The next best CFL QB after him is …. maybe Masoli? And he hasn’t played for a year. Or Adams, who is “only” a bit below average.

After MOP Collaros, we have:

Toronto: Kelly — overhyped scrambler who doesn’t make the right reads half the time and will probably get worse, not better, the more teams get film on him
Hamilton: Mitchell — been washed since the end of 2019. Shiltz or whatever his name is isn’t a suitable replacement either
Ottawa: Masoli: Hasn’t played regularly in forever and is coming off a serious injury in his 30s
Montreal: Fajardo: Someone said he was Willy’d the other day and that’s the perfect way to put it. Like Dane Evans, he craters at the slightest hint of pressure and is prone to backbreaking mistakes

BC: Vernon Adams Jr. The only thing that worries me with this dude is he’s an athletic scrambler. He’s incredibly inconsistent and he can’t read a defence properly to save his life. Also prone to gaffes.

Edmonton: Cornelius: I asked him on Reddit if he likes pineapple on pizza and he said yes. That about sums it up.

Saskatchewan: Harris: Stat-pumper who dinks and dunks all field, putting up huge numbers, but sucks when the chips are down

Calgary: Maier: A poor man’s Harris, really.

So, yeah, if we can keep Zach healthy and upright we lap the field at QB.

How was the move?

The CFL is in ROUGH shape when it comes to qbs right now, especially with Bo's apparent drop off, and Rourke heading to the NFL.

I start my CFL life in 2005 - the first grey cup I distinctly remember (the double forward pass drop)

2005 grey cup qbs: Calvillo and Ray
MOP: Damon Allen

2006 grey cup: Dickenson vs Calvillo
MOP was Simon (receiver with dickenson)
Henry Burris threw the most TDs

2007 grey cup: Glenn vs Jospeh
MOP was Joseph, Burris most tds.

2008 grey cup Burris vs Calvillo
Mop Calvillo, Ray most passing yards

2009: Calvillo vs Durant (lol 13th man)
MOP Calvillo, Ray passing yards

2010: Burris vs Calvillo
Mop: Burris, Durant top yardage

2011: Pierce vs Lulay
Mop: Luray, Calvillo top stats

2012: Ray vs Glenn (Toronto vs CGY) - Bo also sees action in that game according to wiki
Mop: Chad Owen's (Ray qb) - Burris top stats

2013: Durant vs Burris (hamilton)
Mop: Cornish (qb was Bo/Glenn)

2014: Bo vs Collaros (hamilton)
Mop: Solomon Elimimian (qb Glenn) Ray top stats guy

2015: Ray vs Bo
Mop: Mike Rielly

2016: Burris (ott) vs Bo
Mop: Bo, Rielly and Ray in top stats

2017: Bo vs Ray
Mop: Rielly

2018: Bo vs Harris (ott)
Mop: Bo, top stats: Rielly

And here is where it shifts -

2019: Collaros/Steveller vs Dane Evans
Mop: banks (qb Evans/Masoli) - top stats - yards: Fajardo completions: Harris tds: McLeod bethel-thompson

That is a real yikes, especially considering Collaros' durability/history at the time.

2021: Collaros vs Masoli
Mop: Collaros top stats: Rielly/Fajardo

2022: MBT vs Collaros
Mop: collaros, top stats MBT

Basically we lost two generations of qb at the same time between 2015 and 2018, with it being most likely the last gasp of both Bo as well as Burris and Ray, who were part of that Calvillo generation. I have to say, Glenn looked really good in doing this exercise- I was iffy on him as a HoF guy, but this kind of exercise shows he was a pretty great player.

Mike Rielly was the best bet to take over, and he's retired. I loved MBT, but a) he'srnot in the CFL, and b) he is not that guy.

Masoli might be lost due to injury, and Fajordo's development was ruined. Rourke is chasing an NFL dream.

It should be the old guard of Collaros/Rielly/Bo battling the next generation - not only have we appeared to have lost the next generation - either to injury, stunted development or NFL dreams - but the old guard is not maintaining a quality of play that historically has been the norm in the CFL- players like Ray, Burris - even Allen.

It's like we lost two generations at once between 2015-2018.

Evaluating current qbs on the "that guy" scale - From east to west:

I don't believe Adams is that guy

I KNOW Maier and Cornelius are not that guy

Harris has NEVER been that guy

Collaros is that old guy who is still good

Bo WAS that guy - now he isnt

Kelly is too early to be that guy - I don't see it

Masoli could be that guy if he recovers

Fajardo is NOT that guy

God, what would a qb like Dave Dickenson do to this league right now? Joseph might be the best in the league - Give me Durant in a heartbeat!

Those were qbs that were a step behind their contemporaries - who never sniffed best in the league status, but would be a clear cut above - at worst the second best qb in the league by a MILE right now.

 

[BobTheSolarsystem]

For a league that lives and dies on QBs... the CFL has done nothing to facilitate their development and retention

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

For a league that lives and dies on QBs... the CFL has done nothing to facilitate their development and retention

It might be because no one has developed any tackles either. Willy and Farjardo showed promise before getting their confidence destroyed behind awful o-lines.

Canadian skill position talent has never been better - Demski is 100x the receiver Stoddard was - but oline is lacking.

 

[Holden Caulfield]

Great review as per usual.
Any thoughts on the HC, OC and DC?

Nothing in particular.

Congrats to O'Shea for tying Cal Murphy for 2nd all-time in Blue Bombers coaching wins. He'll probably track down Bud Grant in 2024 for the all-time record. O'Shea is likely to go down as one of or potentially THE greatest head coach in team history. You wont find me questioning his decisions anymore LOL.

Buck showed a lot this game. CGY decided to use the same strategy as BC, lots of pressure. But Buck changed tactics in the 2nd quarter and started using more lateral motion/runs, more screens. Then played off that late in the 2nd quarter with the McCrae deep shot TD. It took him far too along to adjust considering it's been rule #1 in the beat the Bombers playbook since last year's Grey Cup. But he did this game and the results show it, even with his best weapons having a bit of an off-night in Collaros and Schoen.

Richie Hall gets an undeserved amount of hate. But he's proven over the years that his defenses get results. The question of how much of that is the elite personnel vs good strategy, doesn't really matter, IMO. You need both to succeed. In fact your strategy should be tailored to your talent. But generally quick hitter QB's feast on the Hall Bombers D's. He likes soft zone, keep everything in front of you, not a lot of blitzing, but surprising angles when he does. Quick hitter QBs can generally dink and dunk their way downfield. Maier, Harris, Dane Evans before, these type QBs are generally strong against this style. But last night they completely shut down the pass game with what looked like more man coverage, so good adjustment. He's again a key component of this current era which has showcased some of the greatest D's in CFL history.

 

[BobTheSolarsystem]

Nothing in particular.

Congrats to O'Shea for tying Cal Murphy for 2nd all-time in Blue Bombers coaching wins. He'll probably track down Bud Grant in 2024 for the all-time record. O'Shea is likely to go down as one of or potentially THE greatest head coach in team history. You find much to say on he's decisions anymore LOL.

Buck showed a lot this game. CGY decided to use the same strategy as BC, lots of pressure. But Buck changed tactics in the 2nd quarter and started using more lateral motion/runs, more screens. Then played off that late in the 2nd quarter with the McCrae deep shot TD. It took him far too along to adjust considering it's been rule #1 in the beat the Bombers playbook since last year's Grey Cup. But he did this game and the results show it, even with his best weapons having a bit of an off-night in Collaros and Schoen.

Richie Hall gets an undeserved amount of hate. But he's proven over the years that his defenses get results. The question of how much of that is the elite personnel vs good strategy, doesn't really matter, IMO. You need both to succeed. In fact your strategy should be tailored to your talent. But generally quick hitter QB's feast on the Hall Bombers D's. He likes soft zone, keep everything in front of you, not a lot of blitzing, but surprising angles when he does. Quick hitter QBs can generally dink and dunk their way downfield. Maier, Harris, Dane Evans before, these type QBs are generally strong against this style. But last night they completely shut down the pass game with what looked like more man coverage, so good adjustment. He's again a key component of this current era which has showcased some of the greatest D's in CFL history.

If Hall gets a strong push from his DEs and has an elite MLB - then he's one of the best... but so is everyone... the challenge with Hall is I find his D falls apart a lot more easily than other DCs

But like anyone, if your offence isn't performing and D is on the field all game then every DC looks like crap

 

[Holden Caulfield]

Liegghio 6 for 6 in Hamilton as well btw (not that I'm unhappy with Castillo lol)

 

[snowkiddin]

Nothing in particular.

Congrats to O'Shea for tying Cal Murphy for 2nd all-time in Blue Bombers coaching wins. He'll probably track down Bud Grant in 2024 for the all-time record. O'Shea is likely to go down as one of or potentially THE greatest head coach in team history. You find much to say on he's decisions anymore LOL.

Buck showed a lot this game. CGY decided to use the same strategy as BC, lots of pressure. But Buck changed tactics in the 2nd quarter and started using more lateral motion/runs, more screens. Then played off that late in the 2nd quarter with the McCrae deep shot TD. It took him far too along to adjust considering it's been rule #1 in the beat the Bombers playbook since last year's Grey Cup. But he did this game and the results show it, even with his best weapons having a bit of an off-night in Collaros and Schoen.

Richie Hall gets an undeserved amount of hate. But he's proven over the years that his defenses get results. The question of how much of that is the elite personnel vs good strategy, doesn't really matter, IMO. You need both to succeed. In fact your strategy should be tailored to your talent. But generally quick hitter QB's feast on the Hall Bombers D's. He likes soft zone, keep everything in front of you, not a lot of blitzing, but surprising angles when he does. Quick hitter QBs can generally dink and dunk their way downfield. Maier, Harris, Dane Evans before, these type QBs are generally strong against this style. But last night they completely shut down the pass game with what looked like more man coverage, so good adjustment. He's again a key component of this current era which has showcased some of the greatest D's in CFL history.

Me and a few guys at work were discussing if MOS is in the statue category yet. If he passes Grant and delivers another Grey Cup I’d say so … not sure if coaches get much statue recognition normally.

Richie Hall’s defence just frustrates me. I’ve always found his zone coverage is pretty contingent on having an effective D-line, and when they aren’t playing at an elite level, QBs pick the secondary apart. But yeah, most DCs would look like shit without any pressure. I think he’s propped up quite a bit by the talent on the team, but that’s why I’m sitting at home on a message board and not in the CFL

Liegghio 6 for 6 in Hamilton as well btw (not that I'm unhappy with Castillo lol)

Liegghio was fine when the games meant less. Everything he does is irrelevant for me right now until he’s kicking in the playoffs.

 

[bustamente]

Unfortunately Masoli gets injured and carried to the sidelines in his return

 

[None]

Disgusting that Marino only got 2 games for that hit that's probably ending Masoli's career.

 

[snowkiddin]

Disgusting that Marino only got 2 games for that hit that's probably ending Masoli's career.

The CFL then doubled down on that when they did nothing when immediately after he returned he was back to his old tricks again.

Insane to me that the Riders ended up releasing him basically because of his antics and the CFL didn’t do anything to prevent him from coming back

 

[None]

The CFL then doubled down on that when they did nothing when immediately after he returned he was back to his old tricks again.

Insane to me that the Riders ended up releasing him basically because of his antics and the CFL didn’t do anything to prevent him from coming back

Craig Dickenson also defended Garrett Marino's hit and racism the entire time.

 

[snowkiddin]

Craig Dickenson also defended Garrett Marino's hit and racism the entire time.

I listened to every Rider post-game show after Labour Day last year for the schadenfreude and I don’t think a single caller said they respected Marino — people were criticizing Dickenson/Riders for taking so long to get rid of him.

I remember I went to the LDC and was surrounded by Rider fans in my section. When he got introduced at the beginning of the game, me and my buddy booed pretty loudly and the people behind us said, “we can’t hate on you for booing him, we don’t like him either.”

Dude was such a dirtbag that his own team’s fanbase wanted him barred and the CFL did nothing … they must take notes on what the DOPS in the NHL does and try to emulate it

 

[Holden Caulfield]

Masoli is Apparently cursed. Hate to see that.

 

[Holden Caulfield]

Liegghio was fine when the games meant less. Everything he does is irrelevant for me right now until he’s kicking in the playoffs

He just missed an XP haha. I spoke too soon.

 

[roccerfeller]

What about it was cringy?

The voice over in particular was a bit cringe lol

Maybe it’s still on during the Cfl games

As an aside - poor Masoli. Feel for the guy

 

[None]

Surprised that PI wasn't challenged in the MTL-BC game. That was nothing.

 

[snowkiddin]

Vernon Adams Jr is horrible

His passing is so inaccurate and he might have the lowest football IQ in the league

 

[snowkiddin]

Dustin Nielsen’s schtick is so tiresome

 

[SUX2BU]

Shut up suitor

 

[snowkiddin]

TSN’s CFL crew does an absolutely horrific job at staying neutral

 

[snowkiddin]

Honestly, starting to look more and more like BC just feasted on the Bombers being underprepared and missing a shitload of starters.

This is two weeks in a row now they’ve (BC) looked terrible.

Either that, or the Bombers have taken a significant step back.

 

[Huffer]

Liked seeing the Bombers get the W, but I think there are concerns for the Bombers in the trenches on both sides of the ball.

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

The CFL then doubled down on that when they did nothing when immediately after he returned he was back to his old tricks again.

Insane to me that the Riders ended up releasing him basically because of his antics and the CFL didn’t do anything to prevent him from coming back

I heard the CFL basically told teams do not sign this player.

I think they even implied whoever signed him, he would be facing further, longer suspensions.