Speculation: Wings spare parts at the deadline (Actually, the tank thread)

[lilidk]

There's no way Yzerman would've brought in all of these veteran players. Like Chiarot and Maatta and Perron and Copp if he planned on going scorched earth. That's not Yzermans gig and i doubt ownership would tolerate it.

Yzerman didn't expect Bertuzzi and Vrana situation, things change and SY needs to make decision what to do next . We also have no idea what is going on with contracts negotiations

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Yzerman didn't expect Bertuzzi and Vrana situation, things change and SY needs to make decision what to do next . We also have no idea what is going on with contracts negotiations

Things change. But there is nothing in Yzerman's history nor his actions with the Wings to this point that remotely indicate that he's interested in going scorched earth.

Also, dealing away Bertuzzi and/or Vrana isn't scorched earth. It may have felt like it in the summer... but as you say, things change. Bertuzzi isn't just a 20-30 goal gritty forward now. He's that plus a continued injury thorn in their side. Vrana isn't a PPG sniper, he's a PPG sniper that went through some shit that dropped him in the PAP and he's fighting through to get his conditioning back up to snuff. They're not the pieces they were in August.

 

[ZDH]

"Guys we need someone to push us over the edge.

Adam Erne."




Said nobody ever.

 

[SantosHalper]

I think my biggest disappointment with Yzerman so far is he built out a real hockey staff in Tampa Bay. However, in Detroit, it is just he and his old buddies running the whole team. For example, would Draper be in his position if he didn't play for the Wings? The front office looks very similar to what it would have if Holland was running things, and that is just not what I expected. Horcoff, Campbell, Fischer, Cleary, Draper, Maltby and many of the scouting staff are just holdovers from the Holland era and with several getting major promotions. After that, Yzerman added Kronwall and Lidstrom to his staff and that's been about it.

But, it has badly needed an overhaul in North American scouting, pro scouting and player development for awhile to make it a more modern organization and I'm still holding out hope that will happen one day. A shakeup needs to happen and hopefully there is some serious luck, as well.

At first Draper was special assistant to GM from 2011 to 2019 and then got "promoted" to director of amateur scouting. And during that period he participated in scouting as well, so im quite sure he didn't get the job just for being a former Red Wing and a "buddy" to the GM. Yzerman also hired 2 chief amateur scouts back in 2019, Jesse Wallin from St. Louis and Ryan Rezmierski from Nashville. Rezmierski left to Anaheim but Wallin is still in the organization.

Yzerman also hired 7 other scouts back in 2019. Thomas Carlsson(Europe), Kevin Gibson(amateur), Kyle Mackinnon(pro), Phil Osaer(goalie scout), Rob Rassey(amateur), Bryce Thoma(amateur) and Chris Yzerman(pro). Rob Rassey left in 2021 and he got replaced by 2 scouts Corey Crocker and Greg Hawgood.
Pro scout Eric Soltys was hired in 2021, he left after the season and was replaced by Boyd Gordon earlier this season. Yzerman also reinforced the European scouting by hiring Tommy Boustedt in 2021.

Currently there is 8 scouts left from Holland-era. Brendan Flemming(amateur), Kelly Harper(amateur), Vladimir Havluj Sr.(Europe), Kirk Maltby(pro), Mark Mullen(amateur), Antonin Routa(Europe), Nikolai Vakurov(Europe), Ross Yates(amateur).

Horcoff is a former player but he's a former player with college degree in finance and mathematics, i don't see any harm adding a guy like that in the front office. Bryan Campbell is a stat guy, i really doubt him being any kind of relic.

Fischer's official title is Associate Director of Player Personnel, and before that it was director of player evaluation, and before that it was director of player development. According to his bio, his current job description is basically a scout's job. So he's been struggling to find a correct role but im glad he is still employed by the Wings, his career ended way too soon.

Cleary has been Assistant Director of Player Development since 2017, so i guess you could evaluate his job by counting how many kids has make it in to the NHL. But on paper at least, Cleary is a perfect player development guy. Former 1st round pick, who had a tough time to become a NHL player.

Yzerman has also hired since 2019:
- Aaron Kahn, Director of Hockey Operations
- Dan Kosinski, Hockey Operations Data Analyst
- Dwayne Blais, Player Development Consultant
- Mike Barwis, Director of Sports Science and Human Performance
- Robert Campbell, Head Strength Coach
- Nick Lucius, Physical Therapist and Assistant Strength Coach
(+Kronwall & Lidström, which you already mentioned)

So i wouldn't say that Yzerman has not changed anything and pretty much every single team in the league employs their former players, grass is greener-syndrome screams heavily from your post.

 

[kliq]

I wouldn't be surprised to see this be the season that Yzerman goes fully scorched earth and gets rid of the last of the Holland-era players. He tried to load up the roster and we're likely to end up just as bad as last year.

Larkin for a first, second, and a good C prospect.
Bertuzzi for a low first.
Spare parts for second\third\fourth round picks.
Zadina for a 4th.

That'll be enough to sink the team into a top-5 pick.

I dont see him doing a move like that, thats the type of move someone does who is all ego. You dont get rid of players solely based on the fact that another GM drafted them. Now, if you believe a player drafted by the previous GM isnt a good fit, sure, move them. If he just gets rid of guys like Larkin, Bertuzzi, Ras etc because Holland drafted them, that's just stupid.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Id be willing to wheel all four out. Id throw Erne on there as well.

Perron - retain 50%, get a first based on playoff duration. lock in atleast a 2nd rounder and conditional 3rd in another year if we dont get the first round condition.

Maata - anything that isnt a player coming back unless its a kid with potential that needs a chance of scenery who can skate.

Kubalik - wheel it for whatever.

Bert - thanks for everything but you're injuries are only going to get worse. get whatever. let teams talk about extensions if it helps get more back.

then you weaponize the cap, be a 3rd team in another deal. take on more assets.

this season had so much potential just couldnt stay healthy and stay focused.

I like the idea of holding onto Kubalik. He plays well with Larkin and Veleno as speedy puck transporters and he can put the puck in the net. If he wasn’t shuttled down the lineup to help Bert get back on track he’d be close to Larkin in points.

 

[PelagicJoe]

"Guys we need someone to push us over the edge.

Adam Erne."




Said nobody ever.

I am sure someone said that if they were talking about cliffs or tall buildings.

 

[Roy S]

At first Draper was special assistant to GM from 2011 to 2019 and then got "promoted" to director of amateur scouting. And during that period he participated in scouting as well, so im quite sure he didn't get the job just for being a former Red Wing and a "buddy" to the GM. Yzerman also hired 2 chief amateur scouts back in 2019, Jesse Wallin from St. Louis and Ryan Rezmierski from Nashville. Rezmierski left to Anaheim but Wallin is still in the organization.

Yzerman also hired 7 other scouts back in 2019. Thomas Carlsson(Europe), Kevin Gibson(amateur), Kyle Mackinnon(pro), Phil Osaer(goalie scout), Rob Rassey(amateur), Bryce Thoma(amateur) and Chris Yzerman(pro). Rob Rassey left in 2021 and he got replaced by 2 scouts Corey Crocker and Greg Hawgood.
Pro scout Eric Soltys was hired in 2021, he left after the season and was replaced by Boyd Gordon earlier this season. Yzerman also reinforced the European scouting by hiring Tommy Boustedt in 2021.

Currently there is 8 scouts left from Holland-era. Brendan Flemming(amateur), Kelly Harper(amateur), Vladimir Havluj Sr.(Europe), Kirk Maltby(pro), Mark Mullen(amateur), Antonin Routa(Europe), Nikolai Vakurov(Europe), Ross Yates(amateur).

Horcoff is a former player but he's a former player with college degree in finance and mathematics, i don't see any harm adding a guy like that in the front office. Bryan Campbell is a stat guy, i really doubt him being any kind of relic.

Fischer's official title is Associate Director of Player Personnel, and before that it was director of player evaluation, and before that it was director of player development. According to his bio, his current job description is basically a scout's job. So he's been struggling to find a correct role but im glad he is still employed by the Wings, his career ended way too soon.

Cleary has been Assistant Director of Player Development since 2017, so i guess you could evaluate his job by counting how many kids has make it in to the NHL. But on paper at least, Cleary is a perfect player development guy. Former 1st round pick, who had a tough time to become a NHL player.

Yzerman has also hired since 2019:
- Aaron Kahn, Director of Hockey Operations
- Dan Kosinski, Hockey Operations Data Analyst
- Dwayne Blais, Player Development Consultant
- Mike Barwis, Director of Sports Science and Human Performance
- Robert Campbell, Head Strength Coach
- Nick Lucius, Physical Therapist and Assistant Strength Coach
(+Kronwall & Lidström, which you already mentioned)

So i wouldn't say that Yzerman has not changed anything and pretty much every single team in the league employs their former players, grass is greener-syndrome screams heavily from your post.

I'm quite familiar with Draper's background. That doesn't really address what merited the promotion. I do like the general strategy of leaning on Hakan and European scouts more so than Draper and the N.A. crew when it comes to the top picks, although I wouldn't mind even more of it in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. The broader point is the main decision makers for the Wings or the ones with executive level titles all either were holdovers from the Holland era (Draper, Horcoff, Campbell, Fischer and Cleary) or are recently added ex players like Lidstrom and Kronwall. The main difference between this front office and the one under Holland is that Yzerman replaced Holland. Other than that, the main people in charge would look virtually the same.

The Wings still don't have a full fledged analytics department unlike many top organizations like the Lightning and Carolina. Many teams have a pure director of analytics and at least 3 data scientists or engineers working in the department. So, the Wings are fairly behind the times on that front with just one generic data analyst and that really impacts pro scouting a lot. Chiarot, for example, would never be signed by any team who valued analytics even remotely and/or if he was, it would be under the condition he'd only play on the 3rd pairing in heavily protected minutes. It seems like the Wings leadership legitimately thought he'd handle top pairing minutes with Seider and that would go well, which is kind of hilarious. He had just come from Florida where he was relegated to 3rd pairing minutes in the playoffs in a heavily protected role and he was going to get even older and decline further from what he was in Montreal. What were the pro scouts like Maltby looking at? You really could have replaced Yzerman with Holland last off season during FA and I don't think anything would have changed. I just found it to be an alarmingly bad off season with poor decision making.

In terms of North American scouting, there has been one player selected (Mazur) in 4 drafts (22 N.A. picks) who is seen by third party observers as a good prospect and who might exceed his draft slot and contribute in the NHL. 2/3rds of NHL players come from North America, so this is still a gaping hole in the organization. The European scouting is still top notch and is responsible for why the Wings have one of the better prospect pools in the NHL. But, even if you ignore 1st round picks (and Cossa might be a big miss- still TBD, but he's no longer listed on 3rd party top prospect lists), there were 7 European prospects taken in the 2nd and 3rd round since 2019 and 6 N.A. prospects. Of those, Wallinder is a top prospect and Johansson was previously on prospect lists and could carve out a bottom pairing role and Buchelnikov is now appearing on top 100 prospect lists and early returns are good. This also leaves out Soderblom, who will likely be a Wing for a long time and is a very good prospect and the fact that all the 1st round picks from Europe look like good bets to be hits. On the N.A. side, Mazur has done well and has a chance to be a quality NHL player and early returns on Lombardi are decent. Other than that, it is a mixed bag and with no late round picks like Soderblom flourishing and Cossa is now entirely left off top prospect lists and it is TBD on how he'll end up long term. If anything, I'd rather lean on the European scouts even more than they currently do, which is still quite a lot and/or just go with consensus player on draft boards in N.A. rather than reaches like Dylan James. They haven't consistently demonstrated the ability yet like the European scouts have done to go off the board for a pick and have it turn out well.

 

[TheOctopusKid]

The Wings still don't have a full fledged analytics department unlike many top organizations like the Lightning and Carolina. Many teams have a pure director of analytics and at least 3 data scientists or engineers working in the department.

Not agreeing or disagreeing with your sentiments here, however some point of clarification, at least from experience: a fair amount of professional orgs still do use analytics, even if they do not have a full time individual listed on their website as in-house. This is often through contracted services of specialists who often have very elaborate contracts in place and NDAs, etc, so finding public record of their involvement can be difficult at times. So if your point is they aren't making an investment in analytics, that may not be the case.

If you're saying they don't take it as seriously because they won't offer a full time position to it like other teams have: Depending on the circumstance, it is more value for high end data scientists to farm out their services across multiple sports/franchises, etc. than it would be to sign up explicitly for 1 franchise, i.e. they can make more that way. But I have no doubt that the Wings use 1, if not many analytics people/groups, even if it's not in house. It is an additional data point for them in conjunction with their internal scouting and evaluations.

Point of clarification: I do not have explicit knowledge of the Red Wings franchise. This is based on other organizations

 

[SirloinUB]

Would Nick Schmaltz be a good target for the Red Wings?

 

[Gniwder]

They are all gay in it? Interesting.

Gender swapped.

Though if they did get all gay, it would have been a lot more interesting. Lesbo ghostbusters and heists would be pretty fun to watch.

I think you guys are giving studios too much credit for "wokeness" (an evil word and pejorative, I know).

Catering to the masses. Not going any further since it will get political if I do.


As for blowing the team up, they might as well if Larkin doesn't re-sign. Next season is a disaster unless they sign either Larkin or Horvat, and Horvat may not even hit free agency. More cap space for Auston I suppose.

 

[SantosHalper]

I'm quite familiar with Draper's background. That doesn't really address what merited the promotion.

Clearly in Yzerman's mind it does.

The Wings still don't have a full fledged analytics department unlike many top organizations like the Lightning and Carolina. Many teams have a pure director of analytics and at least 3 data scientists or engineers working in the department. So, the Wings are fairly behind the times on that front with just one generic data analyst and that really impacts pro scouting a lot.

Tampa has a department, but Carolina have 1 guy and we have 2 guys. And Leafs have one as a GM and it haven't help them one bit. Analytics guys are a nice add, but their affect is overrated and real hockey guys still run this game.

Bryan Campbell, Director of Statistical Analysis & Hockey Administration
- "focusing on advanced statistical analysis and analytics in the areas of salary trends, contract valuations, free agent market acquisitions, trades and other areas, as well as comparative research for contract negotiations and salary arbitrations, collective bargaining agreement administration and compliance and coordinating player transactions. He also scouts games locally at the professional, collegiate and junior levels."

Dan Kosinski, Hockey Operations Data Analyst
- no job description in his bio but the title says it all.

The broader point is the main decision makers for the Wings or the ones with executive level titles all either were holdovers from the Holland era (Draper, Horcoff, Campbell, Fischer and Cleary) or are recently added ex players like Lidstrom and Kronwall. The main difference between this front office and the one under Holland is that Yzerman replaced Holland. Other than that, the main people in charge would look virtually the same.

So they should all get fired?

 

[Pavels Dog]

I'm quite familiar with Draper's background. That doesn't really address what merited the promotion. I do like the general strategy of leaning on Hakan and European scouts more so than Draper and the N.A. crew

Draper is not just responsible for NA picks.

 

[19 for president]

I think the Wings need to re-evaluate their scouting plan a little bit more than the people.

I feel like the Wings scouting from the Wright days until now has really evolved a way from taking players with the most skill to taking players with great intangibles. Hakan still takes the occasional skill pick but we almosy never see it with our NA picks. So we get the occasional.

The problem is the Wings weren't lucky enough to draft high enough to ensure that pick with super high forward skills. Instead we got lower picks where we nabbed dmen and safe guys like Kasper and Ras. Even Ray is a pretty safe pick.

I still hate the Cossa pick as I thought that 15 pick would have been a great shot to take on a really skilled forward which would have moved us further along than Cossa I think in the next 5 years.

Being skill risk adverse did start to change a bit last draft with Buch and Lombardi and needs to continue. We have some great intangible guys in Mo, Ray, Larkin (if he stays), Ras, etc. We need some higher end skill to jumpstart this offense some.

As of right now I see in the near future the below team, which means anyone else is fair game for the deadline (especially the forwards). I don't think its burn it down unless we trade Larkin. He's the only potentially available guy that really sets us back.

Ray-Larkin-Blank
Berggy-Kasper- Copp
Vrana-Veleno-Ras
Hanas-Blank-Soder
*Copp and Vrana are untradeable at the moment
Could look like this next year easily. Only major surprise would be Hanas

Seider- Blank (maybe Walman)
Hronek-Ed
Chiarot-(Aljo, Sebrango, Viro, Wallinder)
*Chiarot is untradeable at moment
*Hronek is probably here next year. I don't see Stevie trading him unless its for a major upgrade or until right before he is a UFA.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Gender swapped.

Though if they did get all gay, it would have been a lot more interesting. Lesbo ghostbusters and heists would be pretty fun to watch.



Catering to the masses. Not going any further since it will get political if I do.


As for blowing the team up, they might as well if Larkin doesn't re-sign. Next season is a disaster unless they sign either Larkin or Horvat, and Horvat may not even hit free agency. More cap space for Auston I suppose.

I'm guessing Horvat doesn't go to free agency and they had at least an informal deal in place.

Catering to the masses is literally most movie studios' goal.

 

[Gniwder]

Catering to the masses is literally most movie studios' goal.

Which is also the reason why Stevie might opt to build a bubble team. They can make just as much money being first round fodder as opposed to tanking and going for a Cup. Look at the Caps for example, they're just raking in dough from Ovy's popularity, they're not even trying to win the Cup anymore.

 

[lomekian]

I think you're right, and unfortunately...

It makes Yzerman look really, really, bad. He tried to make a playoff competitive team and failed. Not that we'd make it, but he wanted Wings in the picture/graphic. He needs to quit with his Zig's and pull a Zag real fast.

I'm mostly upset because Yzerman had a shot during December when Wings were in this, experiencing injuries, to make a move and remain competitive but didn't. Which then leads to why sign any of those veterans this offseason if you aren't willing to add more to win? Whatever...

Super disappointed with the season/Yzerman. Hopefully he can pull a rabbit out his hat, but his trajectory is officially on the downside here. He's made a few good picks and cleared some cap. Thats the good. Still pulling average FA's and over-paying for them in AAV and Term/Year.

Yzerman was brought in really to bring in game changing talent. If he can't do that or is unwilling to swing and try, you gotta go get a guy with Stones big enough to try outside the box.

We'll know a lot of the team's direction imo based on what they do with Chariot this offseason. He should straight up be traded/bought out from this team. His money is whatever, he's literally making players worst that play with him. Can't have that on a young developing team. We'll see...

Bit harsh considering the wings have barely had a game out of Vrana or a fully fit Bert, two nailed on 25 to 35 goal scorers if playing anywhere near last years level in this roster. Also pretty hard to forsee Ned being .02 worse save % on a better team and with more experience than last year.

Just 1 of those things goes as expected and the wings are probably competing with Buffalo and Pitts on win %

 

[Coach Reggie Dunlop]

I have 5 players on the roster I personally wouldn’t be okay with trading rn. That being seider, raymond, Berggren, Rasmussen, and Walman. Everyone else Im taking offers on, even larkin potentially if contract discussions keep going south. I think we should have a fire sale. We literally need an elite talent to seriously compete thats become obvious to me, and the only way to get one is through the draft. We aren’t getting one in a trade or FA, the league is different now and the best players don’t go to FA. Kinda thinking we are in purgatory for a good while rn

 

[Murmansk16A]

I think the Wings need to re-evaluate their scouting plan a little bit more than the people.

I feel like the Wings scouting from the Wright days until now has really evolved a way from taking players with the most skill to taking players with great intangibles. Hakan still takes the occasional skill pick but we almosy never see it with our NA picks. So we get the occasional.

The problem is the Wings weren't lucky enough to draft high enough to ensure that pick with super high forward skills. Instead we got lower picks where we nabbed dmen and safe guys like Kasper and Ras. Even Ray is a pretty safe pick.

I still hate the Cossa pick as I thought that 15 pick would have been a great shot to take on a really skilled forward which would have moved us further along than Cossa I think in the next 5 years.

Being skill risk adverse did start to change a bit last draft with Buch and Lombardi and needs to continue. We have some great intangible guys in Mo, Ray, Larkin (if he stays), Ras, etc. We need some higher end skill to jumpstart this offense some.

As of right now I see in the near future the below team, which means anyone else is fair game for the deadline (especially the forwards). I don't think its burn it down unless we trade Larkin. He's the only potentially available guy that really sets us back.

Ray-Larkin-Blank
Berggy-Kasper- Copp
Vrana-Veleno-Ras
Hanas-Blank-Soder
*Copp and Vrana are untradeable at the moment
Could look like this next year easily. Only major surprise would be Hanas

Seider- Blank (maybe Walman)
Hronek-Ed
Chiarot-(Aljo, Sebrango, Viro, Wallinder)
*Chiarot is untradeable at moment
*Hronek is probably here next year. I don't see Stevie trading him unless its for a major upgrade or until right before he is a UFA.

I see Red Savage as the eventual fourth line center.

 

[jkutswings]

Which is also the reason why Stevie might opt to build a bubble team. They can make just as much money being first round fodder as opposed to tanking and going for a Cup. Look at the Caps for example, they're just raking in dough from Ovy's popularity, they're not even trying to win the Cup anymore.

I think Yzerman would sooner play to be the best if it meant bodychecking his own mother, rather than sell out and just collect his salary.

Here are some quotes from his recent Top 100 Players blurb:

Steve Yzerman: 100 Greatest NHL Players | NHL.com

'Ultimate captain' helped lead Red Wings to three Stanley Cup titles

www.nhl.com

The Stanley Cup has always been Yzerman's No. 1 priority. He played 22 seasons but didn't win the championship until his 14th season. "It's the only award that matters," he said. "By far the most rewarding thing is going through four rounds of the playoffs and winning the Stanley Cup."



Former Detroit defenseman Chris Chelios, who was captain of the Chicago Blackhawks from 1995-99, described Yzerman as "the ultimate captain."

"No one competes more than him," Chelios said. "He's been like that ever since I've known him."

Yzerman admits he can't turn it off when he goes home.

Card games. Monopoly. Scrabble. It doesn't matter. In Yzerman's mind, only one person can be No. 1.

"I have to win at everything," he said. "It's cost me some friends."



"When I think of Steve, I think of competitiveness and intensity," said Dallas Stars GM Jim Nill, Yzerman's teammate during his early Detroit days and later his boss as Detroit's assistant GM. "The will to win. He was going to win no matter what."



"He just does the right thing time in and time out, even when the right thing is very hard to do," said Toronto Maple Leafs coach Mike Babcock, Yzerman's last NHL coach. "Most of us go for the path of least resistance. That's not Steve Yzerman."



That's not a guy who's ever willing to let off the gas, let alone mail it in.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

I think Yzerman would sooner play to be the best if it meant bodychecking his own mother, rather than sell out and just collect his salary.

Here are some quotes from his recent Top 100 Players blurb:

Steve Yzerman: 100 Greatest NHL Players | NHL.com

'Ultimate captain' helped lead Red Wings to three Stanley Cup titles

www.nhl.com

The Stanley Cup has always been Yzerman's No. 1 priority. He played 22 seasons but didn't win the championship until his 14th season. "It's the only award that matters," he said. "By far the most rewarding thing is going through four rounds of the playoffs and winning the Stanley Cup."



Former Detroit defenseman Chris Chelios, who was captain of the Chicago Blackhawks from 1995-99, described Yzerman as "the ultimate captain."

"No one competes more than him," Chelios said. "He's been like that ever since I've known him."

Yzerman admits he can't turn it off when he goes home.

Card games. Monopoly. Scrabble. It doesn't matter. In Yzerman's mind, only one person can be No. 1.

"I have to win at everything," he said. "It's cost me some friends."



"When I think of Steve, I think of competitiveness and intensity," said Dallas Stars GM Jim Nill, Yzerman's teammate during his early Detroit days and later his boss as Detroit's assistant GM. "The will to win. He was going to win no matter what."



"He just does the right thing time in and time out, even when the right thing is very hard to do," said Toronto Maple Leafs coach Mike Babcock, Yzerman's last NHL coach. "Most of us go for the path of least resistance. That's not Steve Yzerman."



That's not a guy who's ever willing to let off the gas, let alone mail it in.

I was just about to respond making the same point.

On top of that, Wings fans won't tolerate being a bubble team for long if there's no real effort or hope to be a contender. We've already gone through that with the end of Holland's tenure here. Fans will lose interest if the team continues to be middle of the standings and get crushed in the first round.

 

[StargateSG1]

I was just about to respond making the same point.

On top of that, Wings fans won't tolerate being a bubble team for long if there's no real effort or hope to be a contender. We've already gone through that with the end of Holland's tenure here. Fans will lose interest if the team continues to be middle of the standings and get crushed in the first round.

Surely it seems like he picked a bad year to go UFA shopping all of a sudden.
I know, I know, Vrana and Bert... yada, yada, yada. Even with those 2, they get a few more wins, maybe.
But they are still out of playoffs at mid point with an easy schedule, going to the toughest one down the stretch.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Surely it seems like he picked a bad year to go UFA shopping all of a sudden.
I know, I know, Vrana and Bert... yada, yada, yada. Even with those 2, they get a few more wins, maybe.
But they are still out of playoffs at mid point with an easy schedule, going to the toughest one down the stretch.

In retrospect sure. But at some point you have to pull the trigger on trying to make the team better.

It wasn't just Vrana and Bert, which definitely would've gotten them more wins. In 2022 Bert put up 62 points in 68 games and had around his normal shooting percentage. Imagine him being on the ice for almost 20 minutes a game this season just in terms of helping keep the puck out of your own net.

Vrana had 13 goals in in 26 games so it's not a stretch to think if this guy can stay healthy for a season he could be a 30 goal scorer.

Seider also had a sophomore slump, whether it was the reigns Lalonde put on him or his partner (likely the latter).

So imagine Seider doesn't falter, those two guys are in the lineup all season, Fabbri comes back mid-season. They definitely pick up more wins from some of these close ones they've lost.

I think a GM makes these moves with a slightly optimistic view of how the season could go. And what happened to the Wings was anything but. If it wasn't for bad luck they'd have no luck at all. But they still would've had to absolutely blow up the team to out-tank teams like the Blue Jackets and Blackhawks.

 

[StargateSG1]

In retrospect sure. But at some point you have to pull the trigger on trying to make the team better.

It wasn't just Vrana and Bert, which definitely would've gotten them more wins. In 2022 Bert put up 62 points in 68 games and had around his normal shooting percentage. Imagine him being on the ice for almost 20 minutes a game this season just in terms of helping keep the puck out of your own net.

Vrana had 13 goals in in 26 games so it's not a stretch to think if this guy can stay healthy for a season he could be a 30 goal scorer.

Seider also had a sophomore slump, whether it was the reigns Lalonde put on him or his partner (likely the latter).

So imagine Seider doesn't falter, those two guys are in the lineup all season, Fabbri comes back mid-season. They definitely pick up more wins from some of these close ones they've lost.

I think a GM makes these moves with a slightly optimistic view of how the season could go. And what happened to the Wings was anything but. If it wasn't for bad luck they'd have no luck at all. But they still would've had to absolutely blow up the team to out-tank teams like the Blue Jackets and Blackhawks.

He had to replace Staal and Noodles for sure, he didn't really have to go Perron and Kubalik and Copp, maybe 1, not 3.
And they are "competing" with Chicago and Arizona for Bedard.
You always have injuries, just look at most teams in the league, they were missing significant players for long stretches.

 

[lilidk]

I have 5 players on the roster I personally wouldn’t be okay with trading rn. That being seider, raymond, Berggren, Rasmussen, and Walman. Everyone else Im taking offers on, even larkin potentially if contract discussions keep going south. I think we should have a fire sale. We literally need an elite talent to seriously compete thats become obvious to me, and the only way to get one is through the draft. We aren’t getting one in a trade or FA, the league is different now and the best players don’t go to FA. Kinda thinking we are in purgatory for a good while rn

If we are trading Larkin , we should do It as soon as possible. Without him we will have much better chance at the draft. What is his realistic trade value?.