Prospect Info: Wings Prospect Discussion

[Fil Larkmanthanasiou]

I’d really like tuomisto to somehow succeed. Mostly because I actually believe our RD defensive pool isn’t looking the greatest. We have seider but outside of him there’s nothing really. I don’t consider hronek apart of the rebuild either.

Hronek is actually a solid NHL #2 and is sill young and developing and will probably be even better. Tuomisto is a 3rd pair dman in college, Hronek was already playing in the NHL at the same age.
If you don't consider Hronek to be apart from the rebuild why did you even mention him?

 

[ChadS]

Viro led TPS in ice time today in their first playoff game. 22:27, 2-0 win.

 

[TCNorthstars]

Hronek is actually a solid NHL #2 and is sill young and developing and will probably be even better. Tuomisto is a 3rd pair dman in college, Hronek was already playing in the NHL at the same age.
If you don't consider Hronek to be apart from the rebuild why did you even mention him?

If by NHL #2 you mean solid 2nd pairing d I’d agree.

 

[lilidk]

Hronek is actually a solid NHL #2 and is sill young and developing and will probably be even better. Tuomisto is a 3rd pair dman in college, Hronek was already playing in the NHL at the same age.
If you don't consider Hronek to be apart from the rebuild why did you even mention him?

Hronek had one season playing with Kronwall, since that time he was our #1 defenseman. Now it's Seider and it's bothering me that we don't have anybody out kids can learn from. We are desperately need to get #1 LD

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Hronek is actually a solid NHL #2 and is sill young and developing and will probably be even better. Tuomisto is a 3rd pair dman in college, Hronek was already playing in the NHL at the same age.
If you don't consider Hronek to be apart from the rebuild why did you even mention him?

Dude Hronek is atrocious defensively. Stop stat watching and look at how he defends in his zone. The guy should be playing 18 minutes a night in specialist situations, not 22+ in all situations.

 

[golffuul]

Dude Hronek is atrocious defensively. Stop stat watching and look at how he defends in his zone. The guy should be playing 18 minutes a night in specialist situations, not 22+ in all situations.

I would actually prefer him to either be on the third pair and no PK time, or just traded away for a 2nd or 3rd rounder. His negative value to the team at 4M+ AAV is just screaming Abdelkader/Nielsen vibes. He could be the nicest guy in the world, but you have to know that his teammates realize how bad he has regressed over the past couple of years.

 

[jaster]

Hronek's defense is adequate if he has the right partner and is given the right matchups (i.e. not against top lines on the regular). Unfortunately, out of necessity, he's mostly been over-deployed as a top-pair guy for most of his NHL career in Detroit. So he gets regularly swallowed up out there and looks bad more frequently than he otherwise would.

He's fine as a 2nd-pair guy if his partner is a relatively mobile defensive type (which we don't currently have). But yeah, Hronek is undersized, not a supreme skater, and is relatively weak. This results in him losing board battles and often failing to clear the crease. He has warts, but they can be covered up. Just not on this roster.

A potential further strike against him is that it's been rumored he's unhappy with his role in Detroit. So moving forward into the higher rungs of the rebuild, it would stand to reason that things aren't going to change in his favor.

I wouldn't be mad if the Wings traded him, for the right return, but as it stands he still holds value to Detroit because he's 1 of only 2 RHD capable of playing in the top-4.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Hronek's defense is adequate if he has the right partner and is given the right matchups (i.e. not against top lines on the regular). Unfortunately, out of necessity, he's mostly been over-deployed as a top-pair guy for most of his NHL career in Detroit. So he gets regularly swallowed up out there and looks bad more frequently than he otherwise would.

He's fine as a 2nd-pair guy if his partner is a relatively mobile defensive type (which we don't currently have). But yeah, Hronek is undersized, not a supreme skater, and is relatively weak. This results in him losing board battles and often failing to clear the crease. He has warts, but they can be covered up. Just not on this roster.

A potential further strike against him is that it's been rumored he's unhappy with his role in Detroit. So moving forward into the higher rungs of the rebuild, it would stand to reason that things aren't going to change in his favor.

I wouldn't be mad if the Wings traded him, for the right return, but as it stands he still holds value to Detroit because he's 1 of only 2 RHD capable of playing in the top-4.

Sorry man, but no. His defense really IS awful. If it was adequate we wouldn't be having this conversation. Even as a 2nd pair guy Hronek and whoever he's paired with get caved by 2nd and 3rd line forwards. I honestly would have rather traded Hronek (who is probably not nearly as valuable as many people here think) instead of Leddy. I know Detroit needs offense from it's defense, but it needs goal prevention even more than it needs points from its defensemen.

 

[newfy]

Sorry man, but no. His defense really IS awful. If it was adequate we wouldn't be having this conversation. Even as a 2nd pair guy Hronek and whoever he's paired with get caved by 2nd and 3rd line forwards. I honestly would have rather traded Hronek (who is probably not nearly as valuable as many people here think) instead of Leddy. I know Detroit needs offense from it's defense, but it needs goal prevention even more than it needs points from its defensemen.

I laugh when I read people talking about Hronek like hes the issue with the defense. Youre right, hes not a defensive stud at all but hes a 40 point (for several years of production now) 24 year old, right handed dman. Yeah Detroit needs goal prevention, how about we start with Oesterle, Juolevi, and all the other bums out there before we rag on the 24 year old that has 0 help on his pairing and hasnt had a single other dman in the lineup until this year that could help him. Theres lots of guys in the lineup that play comparable defense and dont bring anything offensively Hes asked to anchor a pairing with either Leddy or Staal all year. If you want to tell me that Hronek has a more negative impact on the team than either of his partners, be my guest but its not true. Hes top 5 on the team in scoring. I dont hate Staal by any means but Hronek absolutely brings more value to the team

Detroit has an issue with no having enough talent, Hronek is a legit top 4 dman in the NHL, getting rid of him for the sake of it doesnt help the team.

Just for reference, since he entered the league Hronek has been ~40th in points and points per game for dmen despite the fact that he played on absolutely horrible teams for a large chunk of that. You can paint him as the issue all you want but Detroit is not in a position to just get rid of someone that consistently produces like that and it sounds idiotic to hear it. Someone earlier in the thread said they would trade him for a third round pick

 

[jaster]

Sorry man, but no. His defense really IS awful. If it was adequate we wouldn't be having this conversation. Even as a 2nd pair guy Hronek and whoever he's paired with get caved by 2nd and 3rd line forwards. I honestly would have rather traded Hronek (who is probably not nearly as valuable as many people here think) instead of Leddy. I know Detroit needs offense from it's defense, but it needs goal prevention even more than it needs points from its defensemen.

Sorry man, but yes lol. Hronek isn't awful. It just seems that way because he's overused, and his defensive faults are obvious. But he also has good attributes to help mitigate them. He has good compete, even if that only takes him so far given his smaller stature. He has a high panic threshold and gets the puck moving out of the zone without it being a hand grenade (an underrated attribute by many fans) like it's been recently for a painfully large number of Detroit "PMDs." He generally shouldn't be used in serious defensive situations, ideally, but I'm positing that on a better team, with a good top-4 and an appropriate partner, Filip Hronek can be just fine as a #4. A very good one even. His defense in that scenario would present as adequate enough. I mean, if you can improve on him, go for it. But the Wings will likely have bigger holes to fill yet.

Since the Wings are not a good team, do not have a true #2 or #3 dman, and there's no one who fits the bill as the kind of partner Hronek needs.... projecting him as a good #4 is hypothetical of course.

P.S. Trading Hronek instead of Leddy so that your team is better defensively is..... a weird proposition lol. Leddy almost could not have been any worse defensively for Detroit this season. As bad as Hronek may have been this season, Leddy was virtually rock bottom.

 

[lilidk]

Let's keep Hronek on the second pair with Edvinsson and bring true #1 LD for Seider. . We will be set for many years to come on defense

 

[golffuul]

Sorry man, but no. His defense really IS awful. If it was adequate we wouldn't be having this conversation. Even as a 2nd pair guy Hronek and whoever he's paired with get caved by 2nd and 3rd line forwards. I honestly would have rather traded Hronek (who is probably not nearly as valuable as many people here think) instead of Leddy. I know Detroit needs offense from it's defense, but it needs goal prevention even more than it needs points from its defensemen.

Agree...the more talent we inject on to the back-end, the more obvious it will be that Hronek's usefulness, here, is no longer needed. We're better off dealing with the "lack of offense" and be a harder team to play against. Hronek simply lacks the physicality, skating, and defensive awareness needed for us to be competitive on a nightly basis. His points are meaningless.

 

[Coach Reggie Dunlop]

Hronek is actually a solid NHL #2 and is sill young and developing and will probably be even better. Tuomisto is a 3rd pair dman in college, Hronek was already playing in the NHL at the same age.
If you don't consider Hronek to be apart from the rebuild why did you even mention him?

Dude hronek is horrendous defensively, that’s why I consider him not a part of the rebuild. And I wouldn’t want tu pisto to have hroneks spot lol I’d want him ideally to be a shutdown 3rd pair who plays a modest amount of minutes per game. He 99% wont become that though I just want to have a defense that doesn’t let a goal in every minute.

 

[DoMakc]

Sorry man, but yes lol. Hronek isn't awful. It just seems that way because he's overused, and his defensive faults are obvious. But he also has good attributes to help mitigate them. He has good compete, even if that only takes him so far given his smaller stature. He has a high panic threshold and gets the puck moving out of the zone without it being a hand grenade (an underrated attribute by many fans) like it's been recently for a painfully large number of Detroit "PMDs." He generally shouldn't be used in serious defensive situations, ideally, but I'm positing that on a better team, with a good top-4 and an appropriate partner, Filip Hronek can be just fine as a #4. A very good one even. His defense in that scenario would present as adequate enough. I mean, if you can improve on him, go for it. But the Wings will likely have bigger holes to fill yet.

Since the Wings are not a good team, do not have a true #2 or #3 dman, and there's no one who fits the bill as the kind of partner Hronek needs.... projecting him as a good #4 is hypothetical of course.

P.S. Trading Hronek instead of Leddy so that your team is better defensively is..... a weird proposition lol. Leddy almost could not have been any worse defensively for Detroit this season. As bad as Hronek may have been this season, Leddy was virtually rock bottom.

Thaat' actually is my main issue with him. He is a good passer, but he panics rather quickly and usually not able to execute under pressure. He is not good at rushing the puck. People see the amount of points he scores and assume he might be good at moving the puck, but IMO that's not the case.

 

[jaster]

Thaat' actually is my main issue with him. He is a good passer, but he panics rather quickly and usually not able to execute under pressure. He is not good at rushing the puck. People see the amount of points he scores and assume he might be good at moving the puck, but IMO that's not the case.

He's not a top-tier PMD, and he's limited in transporting the puck himself on account of his average skating, but that's about as close as I can come to agreeing on that point. After watching a constant train of PMD in Detroit over the last 10 years who either have a low panic threshold or who treat the puck like a hand grenade or who rush outlet passes, Hronek is easily above average for me in that category. From Smith to Kindl to Daley to Bowey to Cholo to Djoos to Leddy, we've seen what guys who truly panic or can't execute to start transition look like, and Hronek is easily better than that collective group.

I've seen this argument before, that people overrate Hronek because of the numbers he puts up, but that in actuality he's not good in transition nor on offense. So, how does a guy who in addition to not being a great skater and has played on a mostly talent-less team, also can't transition the puck and can't create offense... put up 80 ES points in 229 career games by age 24?

 

[DTR]

He's not a top-tier PMD, and he's limited in transporting the puck himself on account of his average skating, but that's about as close as I can come to agreeing on that point. After watching a constant train of PMD in Detroit over the last 10 years who either have a low panic threshold or who treat the puck like a hand grenade or who rush outlet passes, Hronek is easily above average for me in that category. From Smith to Kindl to Daley to Bowey to Cholo to Djoos to Leddy, we've seen what guys who truly panic or can't execute to start transition look like, and Hronek is easily better than that collective group.

I've seen this argument before, that people overrate Hronek because of the numbers he puts up, but that in actuality he's not good in transition nor on offense. So, how does a guy who in addition to not being a great skater and has played on a mostly talent-less team, also can't transition the puck and can't create offense... put up 80 ES points in 229 career games by age 24?

Hronek has ability, but his numbers have been propped up by high usage on a bad team. Credit for him taking advantage of the situation, but it’s likely he wouldn’t have the same opportunities on a better team.

 

[Killerjas]

Cossa going 10/14... absolutely shocking performance... Mr Jekyll & Hyde

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Hronek has ability, but his numbers have been propped up by high usage on a bad team. Credit for him taking advantage of the situation, but it’s likely he wouldn’t have the same opportunities on a better team.

Meh, while usage on a better team may go down, he would be playing with better players (especially down roster) which would produce more residual offense. He isn't a perfect player by any stretch of the imagination (neither offensively nor defensively), but also isn't the problem that everyone makes him out to be, especially on this f***ing roster.

 

[jaster]

Hronek has ability, but his numbers have been propped up by high usage on a bad team. Credit for him taking advantage of the situation, but it’s likely he wouldn’t have the same opportunities on a better team.

I don't totally disagree with the bold, but my argument was only that he does have that ability, as you say. He's proven it. An argument can be made that he's taken advantage of an inflated opportunity and "lucked" into some of his points. But when people argue he's not good offensively and he's not good in transition, it simply doesn't square with reality.

As for the part beyond the bold, I think he'd have similar opportunity, assuming we're talking about a legit good team. As mentioned, on a better team, he's further down the lineup, but he's also playing with 2nd and 3rd liners who are much better than what we currently have.

Anyway, I again caution people not to be too eager to jettison him just yet. We only have two RHD with NHL offensive ability or potential in the organization, and he's one of them.

 

[DoMakc]

He's not a top-tier PMD, and he's limited in transporting the puck himself on account of his average skating, but that's about as close as I can come to agreeing on that point. After watching a constant train of PMD in Detroit over the last 10 years who either have a low panic threshold or who treat the puck like a hand grenade or who rush outlet passes, Hronek is easily above average for me in that category. From Smith to Kindl to Daley to Bowey to Cholo to Djoos to Leddy, we've seen what guys who truly panic or can't execute to start transition look like, and Hronek is easily better than that collective group.

I've seen this argument before, that people overrate Hronek because of the numbers he puts up, but that in actuality he's not good in transition nor on offense. So, how does a guy who in addition to not being a great skater and has played on a mostly talent-less team, also can't transition the puck and can't create offense... put up 80 ES points in 229 career games by age 24?

I never said he is bad on offense, did I? All those points are nice and dandy, but this is the only argument in Hronek's favour in this discussion. Let's agree upon following, Hronek is a fine offensive defenseman, but he is not good in transition which is not the same for me. And yes I can understand why compared to Smith or Kindls of this world Hronek is actually a fine PMD, the question is, does it make him good not relative to those skilled gentlemen, but on absolute terms. I also disagree on Leddy, who due to his skating ability alone was a way better PMD than Hronek. I also think he had a higher panic treshold because he knew he could rely on his skating. On the current team (not including Seider, because doh...) I also think that Lindström is way better than Hronek at zone exits (QoC caveat) and Walman is better at both zone entries and exits.

 

[Fil Larkmanthanasiou]

I never said he is bad on offense, did I? All those points are nice and dandy, but this is the only argument in Hronek's favour in this discussion. Let's agree upon following, Hronek is a fine offensive defenseman, but he is not good in transition which is not the same for me. And yes I can understand why compared to Smith or Kindls of this world Hronek is actually a fine PMD, the question is, does it make him good not relative to those skilled gentlemen, but on absolute terms. I also disagree on Leddy, who due to his skating ability alone was a way better PMD than Hronek. I also think he had a higher panic treshold because he knew he could rely on his skating. On the current team (not including Seider, because doh...) I also think that Lindström is way better than Hronek at zone exits (QoC caveat) and Walman is better at both zone entries and exits.

 

[bedtime20]

Cossa going 10/14... absolutely shocking performance... Mr Jekyll & Hyde

I caught the end of that game and thought Hay started.
oof

 

[Hazy Little Thing]

Strange how there's no hate about that draft pick.

Is his dad in the front office or are you just being disingenuous?

 

[Hazy Little Thing]

Lol how the heck do you know? He just turned 20, I’d wait a little bit

He's making a prediction. An educated prediction based on statistics.

 

[jaster]

Honestly, if I'm a forechecking forward on the other team, I'm kinda targeting Hronek, because of his physical limitations. He has a hard time when guys are on him in our zone. But if he gets free I generally have no worries. He'll carry the puck effectively if there's an opening, and otherwise he'll make the correct passes.

He does move the puck well, as long as he's not being swarmed in the backend. He can't evade that stuff the same way someone like Seider does, but that's why Seider is a good #1 and my argument for Hronek is that he's a good #4.