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Player Discussion William Nylander

Aashir said:
I guess we will see if he’s able to bring it back, sure hope he is able to


Then I guess we just wait till JT comes back or we make an acquisition for a 3C, but that’s going to mean this season will be a burn for him to live up to the RS, hopefully he lives up to it in the playoffs as that’s more important and he will have better players to play with


Some good points in there, things I would say are:

1)This doesn't just apply to Nylander, but to them all but I really don’t think the “playoffs is all we need”. Look at the best playoff performers around. Mcdavid, Draisaitl, Mackinnon, Rantanen, Kucherov. They don't just have a switch and turn it on game 1 of the playoffs, they have sustained dominance throughout the regular season and then continue it into the playoffs. Not only as a fan is that more entertaining for the regular season + playoffs, but I think to a certain extent it helps the players and team going in. If Nylander and Marner go into the playoffs as 70 point players is it really logical to think they'll all of a sudden elevate their games to higher levels? I for one don't believe that and so want them to dominate the regular season and lead that into the playoffs. Now obviously I don't want them to go 100% balls to the walls and risk injury, but I don't see why they can't compete with the leagues best.
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I agree, I'm just saying that for me, playoffs is much more important. M&M&JT are a weird outlier, I don't remember seeing anything like it - playoff production taking such a huge dip. For 99% of players it's like you say, the start players continue playing like stars in the playoffs, we just happen to have 3 guys that fall into that 1%, it's like the team is cursed.

Aashir said:
2) Only compare Marner and Nylaner because they are both RW, same team, and as of now make similar money, when/if marner is bumped up to like 13-14 than there won't be a comparison again
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That's fair. And I don't mind comparing them, I'm just saying that we should also compare them to other players around the league and not read too much into a 1 vs 1 player comparison.
Aashir said:
3) I don't really agree with the goals > assists. In fact I am quite the opposite and even in play styles I take the playmaker over the goal scorer, especially if we are speaking about high level elite talent. Take any goal scorer and their PPG, GPG, and impact always drops. Matthews, Ovechkin, Pastnak, Stamkos...etc and they are always having their goal totals and paces fall off come playoffs. Now compare that to Mackinnon, Mcdavid, Kucherov, Crosby...etc and they are much better and higher end producers. It's also not surprising that for most of the time, the leagues best player is a playmaker (Mcdavid, Kucherov, Crosby, Mackinnon) whereas the goal scorer at best has a few years like ovechkin, or a single year like matthews.
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Fair enough, agree to disagree.
Aashir said:
4) Nylander in my eyes (maybe biased) 100% underproduces his talent. We got a glimpse of his full potential if he gave a shit every game before he signed the contract, we've seen glimpses in periods of the playoffs too (game 6 boston, montreal series, 3rd period florida game 2) but he never is consistent enough. Out of the core 4, Nylander and Matthews are the ones who I can actually criticize their "effort", the other two is always about "execution" and "playstyle". At his best Nylander can be a 100+ point player and a series changer similar to how marner and matthews should be, but he never can or will be able to put it together.
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I'll just say that out of our 4 star forwards, Nylander's the only one who's earned his cap hit in the playoffs, the only one who's production hasn't taken a massive dip in the playoffs and I can't ask for more than that. My beef is with the other 3 guys.
 
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hamzarocks said:
Nope 50 in 50 is around 7.5M to 8.5M

Look at Ehlers makes 6M plays 15.5 mins a game and is around a ppg

He will be coming in at 8-9M which is what Nylander should have been at if he were to be kept a leaf.

That signing was f***ed up from the summer of 2023
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Nylander and Ehlers are not comparable. Nylander is a game breaker. 40 goal scorer in a rocket race and is playing with whatever scraps Berube throws him out with.

It's not the same situation. He is overpaid but not as much as you're saying. Any team in the league would give him 9.5m right now.
 
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thewave said:
Nylander and Ehlers are not comparable. Nylander is a game breaker. 40 goal scorer in a rocket race and is playing with whatever scraps Berube throws him out with.

It's not the same situation. He is overpaid but not as much as you're saying. Any team in the league would give him 9.5m right now.
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He is no game breaker

He is a fraud who got paid off a contract year

Ehlers and Nylander have beem comparable for most of their careers.

Ehlers has been misused heavily playing 15-16 mins a game.

Nylander played poor with Tavares when tavares was doing good. He needs to be a 100+ pt player. He is underperforming like Tavares was in his deal

He doesnt make 7M anymore. PPG production is an epic failure
 
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hamzarocks said:
He is no game breaker

He is a fraud who got paid off a contract year

Ehlers and Nylander have beem comparable for most of their careers.

Ehlers has been misused heavily playing 15-16 mins a game.

Nylander played poor with Tavares when tavares was doing good. He needs to be a 100+ pt player. He is underperforming like Tavares was in his deal

He doesnt make 7M anymore. PPG production is an epic failure
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Ehlers lol. This guy has never scored 30
Goals in a season and has a career high of 64 points. But yeah, let’s compare him to Nylander because he has 43 pts in 41 games this year.
 
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GoonieFace said:
Ehlers lol. This guy has never scored 30
Goals in a season and has a career high of 64 points. But yeah, let’s compare him to Nylander because he has 43 pts in 41 games this year.
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Maybe nylander should be outproducing ehlers if he wants to prove he isnt a similar level player

Nylander is a 73 pts per 82 player over his career at ~17:45 TOI per game

Ehlers is a 63 pts per 82 player over his career at ~16:30 TOI per game.

Nylander can't be producing at a similar/worse ppg than Ehlers at 11.5M. The gap in production needs to be a lot more if Nylander is making 3-4M more than Ehlers ir similar type players.

Nylander in his first year with a crazy deal and hes failing heavily to show he is that type of player.

Marner was getting hated for 95-100 pt production at 11M

Matthews got the heat for his 22-23 year when he paced for ~95 pts at 11.634M

Tavares got hated throughout 2020 to 2024 when he was a 75 pt player at 11M

Nylander is falling into the same underperforming and overpaid trap those guys did
 
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hamzarocks said:
Maybe nylander should be outproducing ehlers if he wants to prove he isnt a similar level player

Nylander is a 73 pts per 82 player over his career at ~17:45 TOI per game

Ehlers is a 63 pts per 82 player over his career at ~16:30 TOI per game.

Nylander can't be producing at a similar/worse ppg than Ehlers at 11.5M. The gap in production needs to be a lot more if Nylander is making 3-4M more than Ehlers ir similar type players.

Nylander in his first year with a crazy deal and hes failing heavily to show he is that type of player.

Marner was getting hated for 95-100 pt production at 11M

Matthews got the heat for his 22-23 year when he paced for ~95 pts at 11.634M

Tavares got hated throughout 2020 to 2024 when he was a 75 pt player at 11M

Nylander is falling into the same underperforming and overpaid trap those guys did
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Ehlers can pace to whatever you want over an 82 game season, but he never plays a full season. So pace means nothing. He plays less minutes because he’s not durable.

Also Nylander is currently 3rd in the entire NHL in goals. That’s pretty good
 
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hamzarocks said:
He is no game breaker

He is a fraud who got paid off a contract year

Ehlers and Nylander have beem comparable for most of their careers.

Ehlers has been misused heavily playing 15-16 mins a game.

Nylander played poor with Tavares when tavares was doing good. He needs to be a 100+ pt player. He is underperforming like Tavares was in his deal

He doesnt make 7M anymore. PPG production is an epic failure
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Horrible horrible take
 
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hamzarocks said:
He is no game breaker

He is a fraud who got paid off a contract year

Ehlers and Nylander have beem comparable for most of their careers.

Ehlers has been misused heavily playing 15-16 mins a game.

Nylander played poor with Tavares when tavares was doing good. He needs to be a 100+ pt player. He is underperforming like Tavares was in his deal

He doesnt make 7M anymore. PPG production is an epic failure
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Sure, I'll compare then right now. Nylander >> Ehlers.

He's not having a great season so far, but calling it an epic failure is nothing more than pointless hyperbole.
 
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ULF_55 said:
I think he gets the short end because he can create on his own.
Brutal management, team doesn't have 6 top 6 forwards.
It isn't just Cap restrictions, it is plain incompetence.
Treliving was the best the richest franchise could land.
Pathetic, and lineup is result.
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Oh, Ulf, never a worry; I'm President of the W.Nylander Apologists Club and don't understand the rationale in the least behind his criticism. I understand the description, I just don't see the same player commensurate with the complaint.

What we need in my humble opinion is continued focus on modest level moves that aggregate in toughness like Tanev: Oleksiak and Seeler types on the backend, and players like Leeson and Hathaway in the bottom six. I might be wrong, but I don't think those moves require a 1st or Cowan.

And then, lol...I'd start kicking tires on bottom feeding teams that have potential steals: Zetterlund in San Jose and Hayton in Utah and in those situations I'd consider moving those primary pieces.

Re: Treliving...I don't think he's been terrible, but I feel -- as you note -- like our resources are thinly applied. Bottom lines and what not, I always loved the idea that we'd have Scotty Bowman in the fold, and if need be, indirectly through the hiring of Stan, irrespective of whatever reputation came with him.

As I've repeated elsewhere, I'm just looking ahead to July 1st. Happy surprises between now and then are most welcome and if none arrive, bah...July 1st will.
 
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Aashir said:
I get it he is playing with third liners at best, but guys like Pastrnak are producing at 95 point rates playing with their own pile of trash

and it's not like he was lighting it up when JT was playing, he had 44 in 45 at the time and JT was a ~40 goal scorer too when he went down

He's been way too inconsistent in goal scoring to make up for that drop off in points, he has 4 in the last 5, but 1 in the past 11 before that. He needs to score at least 50 IMO to even start talking about "evening" out his points drop off

If nylander's assists are going to fall off the face of the planet, he needs to be a consistent goal scorer, but it looks like he's just going to get his usual 40 on the dot but with almost 10-20 less assists than usual. I understand the linemates are ass, but at what point does his point production then become a problem? Under PPG? Under 60 points? at some point he needs to produce despite them otherwise why does he make 11.5?
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Goal scoring is always up and down.

Last three seasons he has 34, 40, and 40 and is on pace for about 45 this year.

Inconsistent?

The most inconsistent thing about him is his linemates.
 
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notDatsyuk said:
Goal scoring is always up and down.

Last three seasons he has 34, 40, and 40 and is on pace for about 45 this year.

Inconsistent?

The most inconsistent thing about him is his linemates.
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It’s like you didn’t even read what I said

4 goals in 5 and then 1 in the past 11, that’s 5 goals in 16 games…where’s the consistency there?

I never thought I’d get this much push back for saying a 40 goal ppg player isn’t worth 11.5.

I guess we just love to settle for less as leafs fans
 
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Most of us think Nylander is overpaid. All four are. But 14 for Marner is to much and 11.5 to much for Nylander. This is Nylanders first 11.5 year. How many years has Marner been overpaid and his contract year it is suddenly ok because he play better then ever.
11,5 is to much for any 2nd line player, but all our 11mills cant be on the first line.
Nylander on the first line with Marner would make Nylander a 100+point player (elit sniper with a elite playmaker). Tavares never been the best player with Nylander long time, gets to slow during the season.

Id like to see Marner with Nylander and mcmann for 20 games. Put Matthews with Domi and whatever( Tavares when healthy, if Tavares is good enough for Nylander he is good enough for Matthews) .
 
Aashir said:
It’s like you didn’t even read what I said

4 goals in 5 and then 1 in the past 11, that’s 5 goals in 16 games…where’s the consistency there?

I never thought I’d get this much push back for saying a 40 goal ppg player isn’t worth 11.5.

I guess we just love to settle for less as leafs fans
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It's like you didn't even read what I said.

Goal scoring is always up and down. A ridiculously small sample size of a few games when discussing goals is silly - you have to look at larger sample sizes (like seasons), and if you do, Nylander is not only consistent but consistently improving.
 
ITM said:
Oh, Ulf, never a worry; I'm President of the W.Nylander Apologists Club and don't understand the rationale in the least behind his criticism. I understand the description, I just don't see the same player commensurate with the complaint.

What we need in my humble opinion is continued focus on modest level moves that aggregate in toughness like Tanev: Oleksiak and Seeler types on the backend, and players like Leeson and Hathaway in the bottom six. I might be wrong, but I don't think those moves require a 1st or Cowan.

And then, lol...I'd start kicking tires on bottom feeding teams that have potential steals: Zetterlund in San Jose and Hayton in Utah and in those situations I'd consider moving those primary pieces.

Re: Treliving...I don't think he's been terrible, but I feel -- as you note -- like our resources are thinly applied. Bottom lines and what not, I always loved the idea that we'd have Scotty Bowman in the fold, and if need be, indirectly through the hiring of Stan, irrespective of whatever reputation came with him.

As I've repeated elsewhere, I'm just looking ahead to July 1st. Happy surprises between now and then are most welcome and if none arrive, bah...July 1st will.
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Thanks for the reply.

I'd focus on the "steals" as they'll be more difficult to acquire, and fill a greater (IMO) need. It is also something they need beyond this season. Next 4 years might be their best opportunity.
For me, ideally, they pay going rate for an okay 2nd. line center, who can skate, defend, make a pass and then in the summer have a hammer when it comes to Tavares negotiations.

Scrubs you can always pick up when teams throw in the towel.
 
Updated scoring after 50 games, Nylander exactly a point per game.
Hopefully he can step it up down the stretch.

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