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Player Discussion William Nylander

hamzarocks said:
Lool naw

Pt is a point.

Players who are either bad play makers or having bad play making usually ahve fans pretend gap in goals can make up gap in total pts.

We see usually big time goal scorers struggle more in the playoffs vs all around elite pt producers (Matthews, OV some runs, Heatley, Stamkos, etc for example)
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A goal should be worth more though. It’s a lot harder to score then it is to make a pass to a player that makes another pass to a player that has to beat a gigantic goal in the net to score.
 
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Racer88 said:
A goal should be worth more though. It’s a lot harder to score then it is to make a pass to a player that makes another pass to a player that has to beat a gigantic goal in the net to score.
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Secondary assists are used to prop down play makers but a secondary assist can be a guy creating an opening or breakdown for the primary guy to set up an unmarked player for tap in or empty net/unpositioned goalie for a great look.

For a d-man, secondary assists represent break outs and puck transitions along with ability to QB a PP being able to move the puck to both sides quickly and drawing a shooter open to convert a primiary assist pass due to good and quick puck movement at the top of the point.

I just want our guys to get pts, and lead the be amongst the league in scoring. Whether its heavily goal driven or assist driven doesnt mean much to me, just be top 3-7 in scoring for 34, 16, and 88.

Right now Marner isnt creating enough offense with 14 pts in 13 games with 2 goals for example. He is short 3-4 goals and 2-3 assists for me

Nylander has 13 in 13 with 9 goals. He is short 5-6 assists

Matthews has 11 in 13, with 5 goals, he is short 5 goals and 5 assists for me.

Our team should is down in total goals b/c the core players arent producing enough
 
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hamzarocks said:
Secondary assists are used to prop down play makers but a secondary assist can be a guy creating an opening or breakdown for the primary guy to set up an unmarked player for tap in or empty net/unpositioned goalie for a great look.

For a d-man, secondary assists represent break outs and puck transitions along with ability to QB a PP being able to move the puck to both sides quickly and drawing a shooter open to convert a primiary assist pass due to good and quick puck movement at the top of the point.

I just want our guys to get pts, and lead the be amongst the league in scoring. Whether its heavily goal driven or assist driven doesnt mean much to me, just be top 3-7 in scoring for 34, 16, and 88.

Right now Marner isnt creating enough offense with 14 pts in 13 games with 2 goals for example. He is short 3-4 goals and 2-3 assists for me

Nylander has 13 in 13 with 9 goals. He is short 5-6 assists

Matthews has 11 in 13, with 5 goals, he is short 5 goals and 5 assists for me.

Our team should is down in total goals b/c the core players arent producing enough
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Ya, I can live with that analysis

Racer88 said:
Ya, I can live with that analysis
Click to expand...
 
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IronHookem said:
Yeah, just a couple or so right? :sarcasm:

No one is talking about who the best player on the team is on a regular basis, we know the answer to that question. However, Matthews hasn't even been the best forward on his line for most of these games, so I fail to see how you could make an argument that anyone (besides Stolarz if you count goalies) has performed better than him AS OF NOW.
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Yes I understand that is your opinion and that a few others share it.
 
hamzarocks said:
He needs to be better

13 pts in 13 games isnt going to cut it at 11.5M

Luckily for him 13.25M and 10.93 top line duo have been worse as they play together

Right now all 3 of Matthews, Marner, Nylander are underproducing. Hopefully can get it going these next 10-15 games
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5th in the league in goals and 3rd at ES - badly underproducing, especially for a second liner.
 
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nuck said:
Pastrnak scores 110 points a year with crap line mates. When you demand to be paid as elite it isn't on your team mates to make you a superstar. He has to find the gear he had first half of last season.

But a ppg on 18:00 a night is hardly choking and right now P-T-N are the runaway leaders on the club for ES production. Willie is well ahead of his ES game from last year. Right now its the pp that needs to get rolling.
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I'm not sure Pastrnak is a good comparison this year - in the same number of games he has 6G and 11 pts and is a -4, while averaging almost a minute more per game. Also, I'm not sure his line mates are any more 'crap' than what Nylander usually gets, plus he's top line and the go-to guy on a very good PP.
 
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Racer88 said:
A goal should be worth more though. It’s a lot harder to score then it is to make a pass to a player that makes another pass to a player that has to beat a gigantic goal in the net to score.
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Tavares made referance to it a few games ago... he said "its so hard to score in this league". Ive never heard players say "its so hard to pick-up an assist in this league".
 
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hamzarocks said:
Secondary assists are used to prop down play makers but a secondary assist can be a guy creating an opening or breakdown for the primary guy to set up an unmarked player for tap in or empty net/unpositioned goalie for a great look.

For a d-man, secondary assists represent break outs and puck transitions along with ability to QB a PP being able to move the puck to both sides quickly and drawing a shooter open to convert a primiary assist pass due to good and quick puck movement at the top of the point.

I just want our guys to get pts, and lead the be amongst the league in scoring. Whether its heavily goal driven or assist driven doesnt mean much to me, just be top 3-7 in scoring for 34, 16, and 88.

Right now Marner isnt creating enough offense with 14 pts in 13 games with 2 goals for example. He is short 3-4 goals and 2-3 assists for me

Nylander has 13 in 13 with 9 goals. He is short 5-6 assists

Matthews has 11 in 13, with 5 goals, he is short 5 goals and 5 assists for me.

Our team should is down in total goals b/c the core players arent producing enough
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Sometimes the guy that gets the secondary assist does the heavy lifting, that's true. It's also true that sometimes a guy can play a big part in making a goal happen and he doesn't get his name on the scoresheet at all. It all averages out though in the long run, and I think that on average, scoring is the hardest part, and usually the guy with the primary assist played a bigger role in scoring than the guy with the secondary assist.
 
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Molson Cup Winner for October.
Well deserved :clap:

1730918994310.png
 
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Racer88 said:
A goal should be worth more though. It’s a lot harder to score then it is to make a pass to a player that makes another pass to a player that has to beat a gigantic goal in the net to score.
Click to expand...
Well Matthews didn't win his MVP a couple years back cause of assists and point totals.

Goals are obviously held in higher regard, anyone who tries saying any different doesn't know what they're talking about.
 
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Mess said:
Willy joins the top as best goal scoring wingers in the game. :yo:

View attachment 927099

Best wingers in game vs their contracts and best bang for your cap buck. 1

Kucherov @ $9.5 mil AAV & Nylander @ $11.50 mil & Panarin @ $11.642 mil
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I wonder what Willy's numbers would look like with competent linemates. Obviously having some worse linemates makes sense when ur a 1 RW playing 2 RW, but still.

Tavares has never really jelled with Nylander at all.
 
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IPS said:
Well Matthews didn't win his MVP a couple years back cause of assists and point totals.

Goals are obviously held in higher regard, anyone who tries saying any different doesn't know what they're talking about.
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Matthews won in 2022 because he had only 5-6 pt pace behind Mcdavid

Mcdavid had 123 in 80
Matthews 106 in 73 or 119 in 80

If Mcdavid had 140-150 pts then he wpuld have swept the awards (think he still deserved the lindsay that year but Matthews was absurdly good and Mcdavid has won a lot before)

Last year Matthews had 69G+38A for 107 pts.

He came behind 144 kuch, 140 Mack, and 132 in 76 McD for hart.

Goals can cover small gaps but a 20-30 pt gap wont be made up by being a better goal scorer

Antropovsky said:
Tavares made referance to it a few games ago... he said "its so hard to score in this league". Ive never heard players say "its so hard to pick-up an assist in this league".
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Weird Tavares cant seem to have picked up assists or goals to justify 11M from 2019-2023
 
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hamzarocks said:
Secondary assists are used to prop down play makers but a secondary assist can be a guy creating an opening or breakdown for the primary guy to set up an unmarked player for tap in or empty net/unpositioned goalie for a great look.

For a d-man, secondary assists represent break outs and puck transitions along with ability to QB a PP being able to move the puck to both sides quickly and drawing a shooter open to convert a primiary assist pass due to good and quick puck movement at the top of the point.

I just want our guys to get pts, and lead the be amongst the league in scoring. Whether its heavily goal driven or assist driven doesnt mean much to me, just be top 3-7 in scoring for 34, 16, and 88.

Right now Marner isnt creating enough offense with 14 pts in 13 games with 2 goals for example. He is short 3-4 goals and 2-3 assists for me

Nylander has 13 in 13 with 9 goals. He is short 5-6 assists

Matthews has 11 in 13, with 5 goals, he is short 5 goals and 5 assists for me.

Our team should is down in total goals b/c the core players arent producing enough
Click to expand...

Lol
 
Antropovsky said:
Tavares made referance to it a few games ago... he said "its so hard to score in this league". Ive never heard players say "its so hard to pick-up an assist in this league".
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Exactly but when I made that point a while ago I got laughed at and derided by the few omnipotent experts on this forum

IPS said:
Well Matthews didn't win his MVP a couple years back cause of assists and point totals.

Goals are obviously held in higher regard, anyone who tries saying any different doesn't know what they're talking about.
Click to expand...
They normally put forth the value of assists in their never ending pump up of Marner
 
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Racer88 said:
Exactly but when I made that point a while ago I got laughed at and derided by the few omnipotent experts on this forum


They normally put forth the value of assists in their never ending pump up of Marner
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Outside of his own 1/2 breakaway goal he scored vs Pittsburgh...which is more of a defensive play that led to a goal. Has Marner been the goal driver on his goals or assists his year?

I can't think of any.

Without an elite player on his line to generate plays that lead to goals, how many points would Marner put up? Compare that to Kucherov, Mcdavid, Mackinnon, even Matthews. Matthews was scoring more with 7 million in total linemates salary than he does with Marner.
 
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Antropovsky said:
Outside of his own 1/2 breakaway goal he scored vs Pittsburgh...which is more of a defensive play that led to a goal. Has Marner been the goal driver on his goals or assists his year?

I can't think of any.

Without an elite player on his line to generate plays that lead to goals, how many points would Marner put up? Compare that to Kucherov, Mcdavid, Mackinnon, even Matthews. Matthews was scoring more with 7 million in total linemates salary than he does with Marner.
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Pretty easy to find out. Through 14 games Marners has 16 points, the elite player he passes most often to has accounted for 3 of his points. Pretty sure any number of guys or combination of guys could have equaled that 3 points.
 
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