Will we be average for years to come? How about mediocre?
- Thread starter Stylizer1
- Start date
Most critically, the stink of cheapness will make it hard to attract or retain top notch players. If you hope to win a cup, of course you want to play on a team that is willing to do all it can to get there.
So aside from the fact that the internal budget limits how much we can offer, that reputation is going to keep away the most driven, motivated, players. People will still come to Ottawa....when they need to redeem themselves, when nobody else will offer them as much, or when they are OK with lowered expectations and a cranky fan base. Or of course when they have no choice, because they are still young.
I don't think it will be as bad as the last days of the old Jets, but the way things have been done for the past couple of years..... I expect it to be pretty pathetic. Fortunately I was a fan of the Jets before they left, so I have practice at finding the silver linings and hanging in there
So aside from the fact that the internal budget limits how much we can offer, that reputation is going to keep away the most driven, motivated, players. People will still come to Ottawa....when they need to redeem themselves, when nobody else will offer them as much, or when they are OK with lowered expectations and a cranky fan base. Or of course when they have no choice, because they are still young.
I don't think it will be as bad as the last days of the old Jets, but the way things have been done for the past couple of years..... I expect it to be pretty pathetic. Fortunately I was a fan of the Jets before they left, so I have practice at finding the silver linings and hanging in there
Proiblem is like Bonktastic alluded to earlier, when you are a budget team, you have no margin for error. A couple of bad contracts (Neil, Greening, Cowen, Phillips) and you are behind the 8 ball looking for a way out. If you have a tight budget, every player has to be worth every penny you pay them or play beyond their pay grade. Given the lay of the land and ownership's unwillingness to open up the wallet, it is hard to imagine this achieving anything beyond mediocrity.
Do Make Say Think
& Yet & Yet
- Jun 26, 2007
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Mediocrity is but a stepping stone to greatness
Yes the team will likely suck hard this year and probably next but after that we should be looking better
I know the budget has everybody down but let's give Melnyk a chance to prove himself as a man of his word: if the budget is still handcuffing the team in three or four years then we'll know we were swindled but for now we still have hope that the young D will improve and that spending will come
Yes the team will likely suck hard this year and probably next but after that we should be looking better
I know the budget has everybody down but let's give Melnyk a chance to prove himself as a man of his word: if the budget is still handcuffing the team in three or four years then we'll know we were swindled but for now we still have hope that the young D will improve and that spending will come
coladin
Registered User
- Sep 18, 2009
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The problem is not Melnyk. It seems like many here forget the TV deals he secured for your precious Ottawa Senators that will in likelihood guarantee its viablilty in Ottawa.
Why don't we wait and see what happens in the next few weeks? People here are awfully impatient.
I don't think we will be average, I think that there are players that need to leave in order to let others play. I think as long as we have Karlsson, the team will not waste his talent by surrounding him with crap players.
Everyone loves to say Melnyk is the problem, aside from Alfie who wanted to leave for more than just his salary, has Melnyk not paid accordingly?
The soft winger Hemsky who played well for only 20 games?
Paid less and got McArthur when many including me were calling for Clarkson?
Wouldn't give Gonchar, an aging defender, 5.5 million a year?
The guy refuses to hand his money away for free when fickle fans need a shiny new toy to gock about. He is giving fair contracts so we avoid B.Richards type deals AND so we can save our cap situation and his money for when whatever prospects which pan out become good and necessitate 5.5 million dollar deals.
Is everyone so blind? I wouldn't be suprised if we signed several key players like Moulson, Statsny, Grabovski this off season to fix the minor wholes made by 1 way players like our supposed "best line" of Spezza, Hemsky and Michalek.
Over the years what have any of those players done for us in the playoffs? The last thing Michalek did was make a beauty pass to Alfie to tie the game a few years ago.
The soft winger Hemsky who played well for only 20 games?
Paid less and got McArthur when many including me were calling for Clarkson?
Wouldn't give Gonchar, an aging defender, 5.5 million a year?
The guy refuses to hand his money away for free when fickle fans need a shiny new toy to gock about. He is giving fair contracts so we avoid B.Richards type deals AND so we can save our cap situation and his money for when whatever prospects which pan out become good and necessitate 5.5 million dollar deals.
Is everyone so blind? I wouldn't be suprised if we signed several key players like Moulson, Statsny, Grabovski this off season to fix the minor wholes made by 1 way players like our supposed "best line" of Spezza, Hemsky and Michalek.
Over the years what have any of those players done for us in the playoffs? The last thing Michalek did was make a beauty pass to Alfie to tie the game a few years ago.
Why did we even acquire Hemsky? Clearly Melnyk gave Murray the green light for whatever reason. It was unrealistic at that point to think he would be the difference between us making the playoffs or not. If anything it just put some fans in the stands for the remaining games to generate some revenue. It was pointless to acquire him as we can now see that Melnyk was/is not willing to pony up the money to keep him. In the end it was just draft picks thrown away.
Yet at the same time you say you wouldn't be surprised to see us acquire players like Moulson, Statsny, or Grabovski?? Why wouldn't you be surprised when you very clearly just argued that Melnyk is not willing to pay money for "shiny new toys" which those free agents will be. Lots of teams will be willing to pay for those toys & Melnyk has demonstrated time & time again that he will not. Yet you have faith that somehow we'll be acquiring these key free agents while in the same breath praising Melnyk for not blowing money on key free agents.
I'm totally fine with not signing Hemsky & letting Spezza go. I'm totally fine with not spending money for the sake of spending money. My problem is the image that Melnyk is giving to Ottawa as a team that's not willing to spend & that makes the Senators an unattractive destination for players. So when the time comes that Melnyk finally is willing to spend money, it might not matter if those players don't want to play here.
Xspyrit
DJ Dorion
Those are slightly misleading figures. Our prospect pool didn't suddenly take a dip because we traded away Noeson and Silf, it also took the graduation of Lehner, Wiercioch and Zibanejad to put us down.
In addition, last year we weren't top-8, we were 14th, and by the skin of our teeth, since losing one point would have put us 17th. We made the playoffs in an injury-riddled half-season where all of our new guys played great hockey and our goaltending was unrealistically amazing.
Obviously we made the second round, but the truth is that, right now, as we speak, we aren't a much different team in terms of potential than we were then. We will be when we lose Spezza, but the return will really dictate which direction we go in.
I have no faith in Melnyk to take any risks with regards to free agent signings, and it will probably cost us a little time, and our rebuild/retool may go on a couple more years, which pains me to say, but he's not wrong that throwing money at a team that isn't ready doesn't instantly make it a contender.
The next bunch of mediocre years are going to be excruciating, let's just hope that there is an actual plan in place.
In addition, last year we weren't top-8, we were 14th, and by the skin of our teeth, since losing one point would have put us 17th. We made the playoffs in an injury-riddled half-season where all of our new guys played great hockey and our goaltending was unrealistically amazing.
Obviously we made the second round, but the truth is that, right now, as we speak, we aren't a much different team in terms of potential than we were then. We will be when we lose Spezza, but the return will really dictate which direction we go in.
I have no faith in Melnyk to take any risks with regards to free agent signings, and it will probably cost us a little time, and our rebuild/retool may go on a couple more years, which pains me to say, but he's not wrong that throwing money at a team that isn't ready doesn't instantly make it a contender.
The next bunch of mediocre years are going to be excruciating, let's just hope that there is an actual plan in place.
darglor
Registered User
- Feb 17, 2012
- 1,253
- 2
How are president's trophies and a stanley cup final appearance "bad to average"? I'd wager there's more teams below us than above in terms of track record, particularly if you're not being intellectually dishonest by including the expansion year & a couple after that.
Hammertyme
Registered User
PaGEEsBack
tell a friend
- Aug 6, 2013
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The President's Trophies and SCF are what bring us up to average imo. Take those away and what do we have?
Average isn't a bad thing to be.
It sure is looking like it.
Not that I fault this team's management. You get what you pay for in this league. If Melnyk wants us to spend less below every other team in the league then being average is somewhat of an accomplishment. It's unreasonable to expect this team to make the playoffs every year if we're spending like bottom feeders.
Not that I fault this team's management. You get what you pay for in this league. If Melnyk wants us to spend less below every other team in the league then being average is somewhat of an accomplishment. It's unreasonable to expect this team to make the playoffs every year if we're spending like bottom feeders.
You don't think those players would come to Ottawa? If you do, then you don't think they wouldn't except fair level contracts?
Any of those 3 could easily be on our roster without having to toss big money deals.
Slowly but surely Murray is amassing players to fuse with our budding youth initiative.
I don't see us as a team challenging for a 1-6 seed in the next 2 years thats for sure.
One star player on D, a 1b center, maybe one first line winger who may not resign, and one blue chip prospect. Goalies OK, bottom 6 forwards real bad, D really thin and all fans counting on them improving alot.
Stylizer1
Teflon Don
But why now? Why not in 2011 when we purged this team of dead weight? We could of had many more top draft picks to work with. Instead we get a bunch of mid range picks, and trade others.
salomonster
Registered User
I'm glad we low balled Hemsky. He is looking for a retirement contract and once he gets it he will disappear on the ice. Just like he did in Edm.
If Spezz is gone than no need to resign a Hemsky.
Get younger, hungrier and better without the puck at the Center position.
Some of the best hockey this team has played lately was when the most offensive players were hurt.
Guaranteed Hemsky gets a ridiculous deal in the coming weeks and guaranteed that team regrets it by Nov.
If Spezz is gone than no need to resign a Hemsky.
Get younger, hungrier and better without the puck at the Center position.
Some of the best hockey this team has played lately was when the most offensive players were hurt.
Guaranteed Hemsky gets a ridiculous deal in the coming weeks and guaranteed that team regrets it by Nov.
Nac Mac Feegle
wee & free
- Jun 10, 2011
- 35,548
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100% agreed.
Have any UFA retirement signings around the league the past 5 years ever been worth the money, cause right now, I can't think of any multi-year deals that panned out for their team.
Sensinitis
Registered User
- Aug 5, 2012
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We were mediocre in 07-08 and then in 08-09, and that's why we're where we are now. Murray was forced to tear some of the team apart and re-tool, and now it's become a rebuild. Since the end of 10-11, we've injected a ton of youth in the line-up, drafted really well, spent low, made up a nice young core.
The team is still young. I think we'll start spending again in a couple of years to put us over the top. Melnyk probably lost a ton of money spending so much to not even make the playoffs or get swept in the first round, not to mention whatever he had else going on, and now we're spending low, and rightfully so, only to spend again when the team is ready.
Thing is, the team isn't ready yet. I don't know why some of you are complaining for lack of spending. The definition of a tread mill team would be to spend right now when the team isn't ready. Let the kids develop, and in a couple years will be the perfect time to put the team over the top. Even sooner if the young core develops fast.
The team is still young. I think we'll start spending again in a couple of years to put us over the top. Melnyk probably lost a ton of money spending so much to not even make the playoffs or get swept in the first round, not to mention whatever he had else going on, and now we're spending low, and rightfully so, only to spend again when the team is ready.
Thing is, the team isn't ready yet. I don't know why some of you are complaining for lack of spending. The definition of a tread mill team would be to spend right now when the team isn't ready. Let the kids develop, and in a couple years will be the perfect time to put the team over the top. Even sooner if the young core develops fast.
I'm happy with the fact that we have a lot of young guys coming up who are supposedly good players. It's a lot better than 2008 when we had guys like Josh Hennessy and Jim O'Brien in the system. I think I'm more worried about whether we can re-sign our own guys though. After a few years will they price themselves out of our budget or can we hang onto them? I'm not worried about not having the money to sign the big names ufa's since most don't want to come here anyways, I'm more worried about being able to keep our guys.
Do Make Say Think
& Yet & Yet
- Jun 26, 2007
- 51,459
- 10,276
I don't think anyone would have been happy if we had traded Spezza and Alfie in 2011: we made the playoffs the following year and the year after that so it's not like we were that bad either.
So after passing the first round last year and trading a youth package including a 1st rd pick (10th overall) for Bobby Ryan, this team was not ready to contend?
I hope this team re-signs Ryan or that entire process will have been counter productive to building the team
Do Make Say Think
& Yet & Yet
- Jun 26, 2007
- 51,459
- 10,276
We all thought the team was ready to take the next step after overcoming serious injuries and humiliating the Scabs
We were wrong: we seriously overachieved on the back of the veterans and once a few left (Alfie, Gonchar) or regressed (Neil, Phillips) it became obvious the youth wasn't there yet
Now it's known and it's up to management to make due. I'm very skeptical about the team's short-term potential but this off-season should allow us to set our expectations at a reasonnable level: we all know the team sucks but we can expect Cowen to have gotten a bit better and the return on Spezza might be good enough to help the team right away, Maclean will have learned from his terrible year etc...
The only thing I want is to not be disappointed like I was last year, it was unbearable: I have never watched so few games or been ashamed of how the team played as I was last year and that was mostly due to how I figured the next step was inevitable, the possibility of a bump on the road never even crossed my mind.
We were wrong: we seriously overachieved on the back of the veterans and once a few left (Alfie, Gonchar) or regressed (Neil, Phillips) it became obvious the youth wasn't there yet
Now it's known and it's up to management to make due. I'm very skeptical about the team's short-term potential but this off-season should allow us to set our expectations at a reasonnable level: we all know the team sucks but we can expect Cowen to have gotten a bit better and the return on Spezza might be good enough to help the team right away, Maclean will have learned from his terrible year etc...
The only thing I want is to not be disappointed like I was last year, it was unbearable: I have never watched so few games or been ashamed of how the team played as I was last year and that was mostly due to how I figured the next step was inevitable, the possibility of a bump on the road never even crossed my mind.
