Red Wings PK Woes

[cvaicunas]

I sat through every Red Wings' PK this season and lived to tell the tale

Diagnosing the Red Wings' Problems on the Penalty Kill

prashanthiyer.substack.com

Felt like this was an interesting read. Likely didn't need it's own thread, but went ahead anyways.

Click to read more...

 

[Lampedampe]

Great article, it gets into the heart of the problem.

But it doesn't point enough fingers. Here's some stats so we can point fingers at specific players, it's more fun than getting into fancy analytics.

Shorthanded stats:
Compher: TOI 43.3, oiGA 12
Copp: TOI 23.6, oiGA 7
Larkin: TOI 36.5, oiGA 7
Rasmussen: TOI 18.0, oiGA 2
Raymond: TOI 30.8, oiGA 3
Motte: TOI 22.6, oiGA 5

Chiarot: TOI 44.6, oiGA 15
Petry: TOI 33.2, oiGA 6
Seider: TOI 59.2, oiGA 16
Edvinsson: TOI 54.9, oiGA 9

Interesting stat, Veleno last year had TOI 67.2 and oiGA 5. This year he's not utilized at all. Rasmussen and Copp were utilized alot more on the PK last year aswell.

I suppose that most of this could be attributed to certain players playing against the top-unit. Still, Chiarot and Compher stand out... Together with Seider, but i'm putting that on Compher and Chiarot.

 

[MabusIncarnate]

Should of kept Glendening.

 

[GMR]

Good goaltending and intelligent defensemen would be a nice start if you want an improved PK.

 

[Winger98]

Great article, it gets into the heart of the problem.

But it doesn't point enough fingers. Here's some stats so we can point fingers at specific players, it's more fun than getting into fancy analytics.

Shorthanded stats:
Compher: TOI 43.3, oiGA 12
Copp: TOI 23.6, oiGA 7
Larkin: TOI 36.5, oiGA 7
Rasmussen: TOI 18.0, oiGA 2
Raymond: TOI 30.8, oiGA 3
Motte: TOI 22.6, oiGA 5

Chiarot: TOI 44.6, oiGA 15
Petry: TOI 33.2, oiGA 6
Seider: TOI 59.2, oiGA 16
Edvinsson: TOI 54.9, oiGA 9

Interesting stat, Veleno last year had TOI 67.2 and oiGA 5. This year he's not utilized at all. Rasmussen and Copp were utilized alot more on the PK last year aswell.

I suppose that most of this could be attributed to certain players playing against the top-unit. Still, Chiarot and Compher stand out... Together with Seider, but i'm putting that on Compher and Chiarot.

I think it points a finger squarely at Boughner who has the team playing a system that is straight up not working and he's not changing it.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

I think it points a finger squarely at Boughner who has the team playing a system that is straight up not working and he's not changing it.

Agreed. As I mentioned in another thread, last year when the PK was good it was Compher Copp and Ras playing the most shorthanded minutes. This season it's Compher, Motte, and Larkin.

I don't know if he's playing hurt but Compher has been bad and can't win faceoffs, yet is getting the most PK time? Copp and Ras are now the 5th and 7th forwards respectively in SHTOI. Why cut their time? They're not exactly offensive powerhouses and the stronger part of their game is defense. Copp is significantly better than Compher on faceoffs, and Ras plays practically every shift like he's on the PK anyway.

And if you want speed on the PK, give Kasper more time. The dude looks like a young Helm out there.

Good goaltending and intelligent defensemen would be a nice start if you want an improved PK.

That's the scary part, prior to Talbot getting hurt the Wings were getting good goaltending. Their PK will likely be even worse if he's out for any length of time.

And in terms of intelligent defensemen, on the PK they're effectively playing zone and don't have to worry about making an outlet pass, which helps both of the D's two biggest weaknesses.

Even with this roster the PK shouldn't be this awful.

 

[19 for president]

Yeah I have no idea why you go away from Copp and Ras as prime guys on the PK. Copp is our 2nd best FO guy after Larkin. He had a really rough early couple of weeks but has been pulling it back to close to 50% as of late. Ras typically does a good job taking up space and blocking lanes on the PP as well.

Larkin should be the 2nd center only because he is our best faceoff guy, but he shouldn't be our lead. This is no the guy you want out there blocking shots. His body takes a lot of abuse already. Plus it allows his minutes to be used more offensively which we desperately need right now.

In fact Kasper, Veleno and Copp should all be out there taking faceoffs over Compher. Compher hasn't been good at faceoffs since he joined the Wings.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Yeah I have no idea why you go away from Copp and Ras as prime guys on the PK. Copp is our 2nd best FO guy after Larkin. He had a really rough early couple of weeks but has been pulling it back to close to 50% as of late. Ras typically does a good job taking up space and blocking lanes on the PP as well.

Larkin should be the 2nd center only because he is our best faceoff guy, but he shouldn't be our lead. This is no the guy you want out there blocking shots. His body takes a lot of abuse already. Plus it allows his minutes to be used more offensively which we desperately need right now.

In fact Kasper, Veleno and Copp should all be out there taking faceoffs over Compher. Compher hasn't been good at faceoffs since he joined the Wings.

It's obviously a smaller sample but Copp is a hair above Larkin in defensive zone faceoffs with 58.9% (to Larkin's 58.4%). Compher is better than his average with 47% but is still not great, especially compared to Copp and Larkin.

I really don't get not using Copp and Ras more on the PK.

 

[norrisnick]

Coaching staff read these boards all of last season when JT was touted as a #2 and Copp dogshit. They've always been practically identical with Copp better defensively.

 

[19 for president]

Coaching staff read these boards all of last season when JT was touted as a #2 and Copp dogshit. They've always been practically identical with Copp better defensively.

I would argue Compher was better last year overall, but Copp has always been the better player defensively. I'd also argue this year that Copp has been the overall better player, but that neither has played like a 2C..

 

[Coach Reggie Dunlop]

It’s hard not to look at the coaching staff as anything but utterly incompetent when you see the PK and you see how guys like copp and ras have been on it so little despite being mainstays on it last season. It just makes no sense and is so frustrating. Lalonde has been in over his head his entire tenure.

 

[Henkka]

It’s hard not to look at the coaching staff as anything but utterly incompetent when you see the PK and you see how guys like copp and ras have been on it so little despite being mainstays on it last season. It just makes no sense and is so frustrating. Lalonde has been in over his head his entire tenure.

Yeah, I don't really get this.

It seems like:

A) They aren't using PK speclialist because they are tanking
B) They are using just regular players, because they are developing them

Anyways, they are using WRONG players, not to build best possible PK.