Will we be average for years to come? How about mediocre?

[Burrowsaurus]

Truly depends on how good some prospects can be. We need to get lucky.

 

[Benjamin]

The Phaneuf trade isn't even looking like a good short term move. We should've bit the the mini bullets instead of having one giant longterm bullet.

 

[ChelFan31]

Regardless of what Dorion has done this season the roster if Murray's vision and could take another 5 years to get turned around again.

To be honest I really wished that they hired a GM from outside of the organization.

Let's say they miss the playoffs again this year. Which outsider would you like to see being brought in from the outside to overview the whole hockey operations department [including Dorion]

 

[Tuna99]

Let's say they miss the playoffs again this year. Who would you like to See being brought in from the outside to overview the whole hockey operations department [including Dorion]

I like Dorion and Boucher. Give Dorion money to bury Ryan and Phaneuf and he could turn this team around in 1 summer

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

I like Dorion and Boucher. Give Dorion money to bury Ryan and Phaneuf and he could turn this team around in 1 summer

This is it exactly. You can still get out from under bad contracts IF Melynk would open up his wallet and buy them out.

 

[ChelFan31]

I like Dorion and Boucher. Give Dorion money to bury Ryan and Phaneuf and he could turn this team around in 1 summer

Edited my question. Meant to write "Which outsider would you select?" .

 

[Stylizer1]

Let's say they miss the playoffs again this year. Who would you like to See being brought in from the outside to overview the whole hockey operations department [including Dorion]

It doesn't really matter. Dorion is an extension of Murray so we will have to wait until all of Murray's signings have either been good or bad moves before Dorion's watch will truly start.

Murray is too involved in this organization.

 

[ChelFan31]

It doesn't really matter. Dorion is an extension of Murrayso we will have to wait until all of Murray's signings have either been good or bad moves before Dorion's watch will truly start.

Not necessarily. There's a way around that. Creating a president of hockey ops role above the GM. To oversea all hockey ops. Similar to when Shanahan came in for Nonis in TO. Don't have to wait long at all for that to transpire. Then from there evaluation can take place and accountability can finally be put into action on the management level.

 

[Real Smart Sens Fan]

This is it exactly. You can still get out from under bad contracts IF Melynk would open up his wallet and buy them out.

Neither Phaneuf or Ryan need to get bought out. Ryan could return something decent with no retention, Phaneuf could return something decent with retention. Look at what we gave up for Phaneuf - basically Michalek (will be dealt for a 3rd or so), Lindberg, and a 2nd. If we retain, we could get something similar.

 

[Stylizer1]

Not necessarily. There's a way around that. Creating a president of hockey ops role above the GM. To oversea all hockey ops. Similar to when Shanahan came in for Nonis in TO. Don't have to wait long at all for that to transpire. Then from there evaluation can take place and accountability can finally be put into action on the management level.

Melnyk is not going to do that to Murray.

Melnyk has pretty much gave Murray a life contract to do as he pleases. No one is going to come in and undermine what Murray has built even though it should be done.

 

[Stylizer1]

Neither Phaneuf or Ryan need to get bought out. Ryan could return something decent with no retention, Phaneuf could return something decent with retention. Look at what we gave up for Phaneuf - basically Michalek (will be dealt for a 3rd or so), Lindberg, and a 2nd. If we retain, we could get something similar.

Not really. Phaneuf on Toronto looked decent. Coming to Ottawa he has regressed so far. his value is not the same as that from the starting of last season.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Not really. Phaneuf on Toronto looked decent. Coming to Ottawa he has regressed so far. his value is not the same as that from the starting of last season.

The "he's a fitness freak he can play at a high level for a while " seems to be untrue as he was never very swift to begin with. So any regression whatsoever is a massive hinderance.

Also the "Andy wasn't a starting goalie for a while, therefor he can be elite weeellllll past the time other goalies start regressing" is also seeking as if it was BS. So odd.

 

[ChelFan31]

Melnyk is not going to do that to Murray.

Melnyk has pretty much gave Murray a life contract to do as he pleases. No one is going to come in and undermine what Murray has built even though it should be done.

Murrays essentially already out of the picture. The keys to the car are handed down to Dorion. It wouldn't be unreasonable tp think that Melnyk could possibly undercut Dorion for some needed outside help if they miss again. Think of the lost revenue he will miss out on again if they miss. He wont be a happy camper. Which could become catlyst for some changes like this

 

[danielpalfredsson]

You make good points, but you're missing the real point - Phaneuf is not a very good player.

There are a ton of option on all these players, looks what Detroit did with Datsuk And a Florida did with their salary.

Lots of options on the table, you do t have to go all in on a declining player who is way overpaid. Trade makes sense when it's explained to you, then you look at it on the ice and it doesn't make sense.

Define not very good. I don't think Phaneuf is a top 2 defender. But I think he is good enough to be a second pairing guy in the NHL right now. If you don't think Phaneuf is very good, the trade looks significantly worse.

Datsyuk's contract being moved isn't relevant to Phaneuf. Datsyuk's contract is zero money owed, all cap and DET still had to give up a decent asset in allowing the Coyotes to trade up 5(?too lazy to google this tie of night) spots in the draft.

It's either or. Ottawa was not getting out of the cap and salary burden of those three contracts this season without giving up some significant assets. Bolland cost Florida Crouse. A year of Bickell cost CHI Teravainen for a small return. Even the Savard contract which had very little money owed and was all cap cost Florida a 2nd round pick. If Ottawa didn't make that Phaneuf trade and NEEDED to move Cowen/Greening off the books, you're probably looking at Ottawa having to bundle Chabot/White/or the 12th overall pick (Brown) with it judging by the precedent set this past off season.

If Ottawa doesn't pull the trigger on the Phaneuf trade they don't get a second pairing defender because there is no budget room for it and Ottawa probably loses Hoffman because they are spending an extra 4M on those contracts. There's a clear short/mid term benefit to the trade for the long term pain of Phaneuf's contract. Ottawa couldn't afford to both lose Hoffman and show Erik Karlsson they were willing to tread water uncompetitively this year unable to improve their team because they would be waiting for 12M to get off the books.

 

[Senzilla]

I thought he meant Boucher.

I did mean Boucher. My bad.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

The "he's a fitness freak he can play at a high level for a while " seems to be untrue as he was never very swift to begin with. So any regression whatsoever is a massive hinderance.

Also the "Andy wasn't a starting goalie for a while, therefor he can be elite weeellllll past the time other goalies start regressing" is also seeking as if it was BS. So odd.

Look at the structure of Anderson's contract compared to the structure of Lehner's. Sometimes GMs pump players tires and tell white lies to put trades over. Based on Anderson's contract being front loaded and Lehners backloaded I think it is fair to speculate that at one point or another the Senators weren't expecting Anderson to hold up as a #1 goalie throughout the entirety of his contract. Trading Lehner might have had more to do with them giving up on Lehner than them choosing Anderson. Ultimately, goaltending is the last thing I'd worry about, at least long term, because this off season will provide a great opportunity for the Senators to pick up a goalie who otherwise wouldn't have been available via trade if teams try to leverage themselves against the expansion draft.

 

[Senzilla]

Look at the structure of Anderson's contract compared to the structure of Lehner's. Sometimes GMs pump players tires and tell white lies to put trades over. I think it is fair to speculate that at one point or another the Senators weren't expecting Anderson to hold up as a #1 goalie throughout the entirety of his contract. Trading Lehner might have had more to do with them giving up on Lehner than them choosing Anderson. Ultimately, goaltending is the last thing I'd worry about, at least long term, because this off season will provide a great opportunity for the Senators to pick up a goalie who otherwise wouldn't have been available via trade if teams try to leverage themselves against the expansion draft.

If they can sign him before the expansion draft, wouldn't it be great if we could right a wrong and get Bishop back? Wishful thinking but maybe not impossible.

 

[Hutz]

This is it exactly. You can still get out from under bad contracts IF Melynk would open up his wallet and buy them out.

If you buy out Bobby Ryan, you have 3.5 million in dead cap space and save 3.75 million dollars. Now if you reeeaaaaally lucky, you might get a player almost the calibre of, i dunno, let's say a Bobby Ryan type for 3.75 million. If you're reeeaaaally lucky!

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

If you buy out Bobby Ryan, you have 3.5 million in dead cap space and save 3.75 million dollars. Now if you reeeaaaaally lucky, you might get a player almost the calibre of, i dunno, let's say a Bobby Ryan type for 3.75 million. If you're reeeaaaally lucky!

.....or we might have one of our kids on an ELC play well enough to get 15 goals and some good assist numbers.

...or we can trade Ryan in another year or two for something halfway decent (and thus not have a cap penalty).

There are all sorts of options out there. We aren't 'stuck' with these contracts if the team is willing to do something about them whenever they decide to make changes.

 

[Hutz]

If they can sign him before the expansion draft, wouldn't it be great if we could right a wrong and get Bishop back? Wishful thinking but maybe not impossible.

If we get the chance to talk contract with him, I hope we do. I suspect he's going to want a bigger contract than I would be willing to offer, but I sure hope we do our due diligence.

Honestly, I'm not getting my hopes to high on acquiring a goalie this year. There are likely to be a bunch of guys available, but certainly nobody really exciting who also fits in a salary structure that needs money available for Turris, Stone, and Karlsson raises.

If he's available, Pickard might be the best option. Haven't seen him enough to be excited, though. He could have a year sharing the crease with Andy (sorry Hamburglar) with the hopes that he'll be ready for a starting gig the year after. I think someone like that is probably the right move for us at the moment.

People talk about defence and top 6 forwards a lot, but I really think that the biggest concern for us in the next few years is goaltending. I hope either Driedger or O'Connor take a big step this year, but at the moment I just don't see anyone in our organization who will be able to take over for Andy after his contract.

 

[Hutz]

.....or we might have one of our kids on an ELC play well enough to get 15 goals and some good assist numbers.

True, we might, that would be pretty lucky, wouldn't it?

...or we can trade Ryan in another year or two for something halfway decent (and thus not have a cap penalty).

There are all sorts of options out there. We aren't 'stuck' with these contracts if the team is willing to do something about them whenever they decide to make changes.

Also true, the option mentioned was a buyout, though. We're not buying out Bobby Ryan and we'd be silly to do so.

 

[Stylizer1]

Murrays essentially already out of the picture. The keys to the car are handed down to Dorion. It wouldn't be unreasonable tp think that Melnyk could possibly undercut Dorion for some needed outside help if they miss again. Think of the lost revenue he will miss out on again if they miss. He wont be a happy camper. Which could become catlyst for some changes like this

going forward sure, but doing that before Dorion was promoted was when it should have happened is what I am saying.

 

[Sens]

If the Zibby + 2nd for Brassard deal is any indication of Dorians trading talents... expect the Sens to get wrecked in more deals

 

[DJB]

We are still just average.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

If the Zibby + 2nd for Brassard deal is any indication of Dorians trading talents... expect the Sens to get wrecked in more deals

It's still October.

If Brassard looks mediocre by January and Zibby is still at a PPG pace, then we can start complaining.