Speculation: Will Richards Be A King Come Next Season?

[damacles1156]

Not sure this article accounts for the massive TV contract signed with sportsnet, I don't believe it does and that could be why the numbers are a bit off. The 7.2% was as I mentioned largely on the strength of a surging loonie at the end of last decade, which crippled many American teams who were struggling to spend to the floor and lead to the lockout in 2012. Right now many analysts project the loonie could fall to 85 cents on the dollar, which would have an impact on the revenue the NHL brings in thus effecting the amount of the cap.

I'm a trader not a lawyer, I won't pretend to be one, but I have to figure they did a better job of setting up this CBA than the last one, which was an absolute disater.

It would depend on who crafted it, trust me plenty of Rich people/Owners/CEO's don't listen to us Accountant's

It's why plenty of companies go under yearly, in America.

 

[HYORI 1963]

No black, they actually can't afford to keep all those players on the roster without easing some of their financial burdens. That is why the long term discussion that a certain person thinks is blasphemous is going on in this thread.

Maybe you just don't see the issue as I do because we once again have a much different opinion of what guys values are (shocking I know)

Lets try something, what do you think the following players will be earning on their next contract if it's with the Kings.

Muzzin
Martinez
Toffoli
Pearson
Stoll
Williams
Regehr

I'll answer after you.

lol.

Well, since I'm wide awake and have time on my hands, why the **** not?

Regehr - No offer

Stoll - only sign him for 2M max for 1 year, but it really depends on the development of Shore or other prospects

Williams - pretty much same deal as Stoll, but we may not even need services of JW, but who knows...

Pearson - 2 yr deal 1.5M-2.25M

Toffoli - 2 yr deal 1.75M-2.5M

Martinez - I don't see Amart being signed here, but if he's willing to take something close to 2M-2.5M, then maybe

Muzzin - this one's the toughest, but if he continues to partner up with DD as our first pairing, and continues to grow and be consistent, I'm thinking he'll get a 2 or 3 year deal for 2.5M-3.5M

 

[johnjm22]

lol.

Well, since I'm wide awake and have time on my hands, why the **** not?

Regehr - No offer

Stoll - only sign him for 2M max for 1 year, but it really depends on the development of Shore or other prospects

Williams - pretty much same deal as Stoll, but we may not even need services of JW, but who knows...

Pearson - 2 yr deal 1.5M-2.25M

Toffoli - 2 yr deal 1.75M-2.5M

Martinez - I don't see Amart being signed here, but if he's willing to take something close to 2M-2.5M, then maybe

Muzzin - this one's the toughest, but if he continues to partner up with DD as our first pairing, and continues to grow and be consistent, I'm thinking he'll get a 2 or 3 year deal for 2.5M-3.5M

I don't think you realize how much market value Williams has. He would be coveted by many teams. Plus this will be his last opportunity to get a big payday. If all the Kings can off him is 2M, he's gone.

Voynov got 4.1M. No reason to think Muzzin would get less.

Stoll would easily get 3M on the open market. See Gaustad.

I see Dean trying to lock up both Pearson and Toffoli to contracts similar to Brown's 2nd contract. That'd be over 3M for each of them.

 

[HYORI 1963]

I don't think you realize how much market value Williams has. He would be coveted by many teams. Plus this will be his last opportunity to get a big payday. If all the Kings can off him is 2M, he's gone.

Voynov got 4.1M. No reason to think Muzzin would get less.

Stoll would easily get 3M on the open market. See Gaustad.

I see Dean trying to lock up both Pearson and Toffoli to contracts similar to Brown's 2nd contract. That'd be over 3M for each of them.

Williams will be 34 by the start of 15-16 season. If he hasn't had his payday yet, he's not going to get one at age 34, especially if he wants to remain a king.

Yes, Stoll would get more in an open market, but if he wants to remain a king, he'll have to take less.

Voynov signed a 5 year deal. I don't see Muzz being offered a long term deal yet. Another 2 year or 3 year deal should suffice.

 

[Trolfoli]

1) Don't Panic

2) DL is good at math

 

[KingKopitar11*]

1) Don't Panic

2) DL is good at math

No he's not. He can't even understand how clocks work.

 

[lumbergh]

I don't think Stoll AND Williams will be here in two years. If Shore continues to develop, Stoll will move on after next year. Williams's production is declining. Maybe another two years for him, but some other team will probably pony up more money than the Kings to sign Williams.

There's no way that Richards is getting voted off the island with that contract. The Kings will live with a 5 million dollar 3rd line center. It's not a bad problem to have so long as you have young players coming up to fill the gaps. So far, the Kings are managing the cap as well as any team.

 

[KingPurpleDinosaur]

Does anyone here really think that if MR were an UFA this summer that anyone would offer him a 6 year $34 million deal? And if anyone trades for him that is what they would be picking up, and in the process giving up assets. I just don't see how that is possible, even with his improved play in the playoffs this is nothing even remotely close to an almost $6 milllion player.

actually, when you present it that way, i think he would be offered that money. Richards is 29 years old and 6 years will take him to 35, where he would still be a capable player. It's not about what he's worth to you, it's about what he's worth to the market. if olli joking is signing $4.5 mil deals (richards should get at least a mil or so over him) and callahan at $4 mil looking for 6 years x $6+ mil, i think richards is in a good slot.

while you may obsess over him being a "bottom 6" forward, he's actually quite a lot more to the team than a #4 center, he's a critical part of the team. the mental fortitude of this team is off the charts. i think people like him and brown have a lot to do with it, even though they are unappreciated by everyone.

 

[DryIslandBartender]

Such a long post and still can't answer the simple question, but typical garbage post from a garbage poster, wouldn't expect any less. I guess it's against the rules to be discussing the future of the team, hell why even post in the draft threads or any other threads talking about the future.

Do they offer reading comprehension courses at Michigan? If so, might want to look into it. What I said, and others have mentioned this as well in their response to you, that there are too many variables/what if's to even respond to each of your questions. It's also not worth the time to do so.

There's no rule against talking about the future, but it's a little suspect to do it during a Cup run.

have said numerous times it's fun to watch this team right now, but I want to see this team contending for years to come, and that is not sustainable with an almost $6 mill a year bottom six player.

Actually it has a chance to last for quite awhile.

Drew Doughty is 24, Kopitar is 27, Carter is 29, Quick is 28. There is your elite core all under 30.

Toffoli and Pearson are 22, Muzzin is 25, Voynov 24.

The Kings are going to be contenders for a long long time barring injury.

So which is it? We are in cap hell and we're screwed? Or DL actually did a great job in having this team compete for years?

 

[Buddy The Elf]

I have confidence that the man who built this team has contemplated this and will make the right decisions. If he doesn't, so be it. Making prognostications about a bunch of "what ifs" is rididulous. It is even more ridiculous when said player is making contributions in the playoffs with a team that is one win away from a return to the SCF.

I never understand trade proposals or these types of prospetive accounting exercises. There are so many variables involved and we want to talk in absolutes. If someone comes up with some way to diagram how he fits on the roster, someone else is simply looking to dissect it. What a waste of energy. If DL wants Mike Richards on the team, and I presume he does, he'll find a way to keep him. You're walking up a slippery slope talking about how the Kings will lose this defenseman, that forward, will not be able to Gaborik.. blabady blabady. Every year people talk about how screwed some team is going to be with the Cap and it never happens. I think it is a safe bet that this type of scenario is/was contemplated long before some guy on a message board started digging his heals in on the topic.

 

[xavi4life]

Third consecutive year reaching the 3rd round since acquiring Richards, who was the best C for the Kings a year ago. His line has had some strong shifts, like getting the Kings going in Game 2. You guys need to chill and let this season play out. He'll be back next season, the team really values him as a leader, despite the salary and lack of production this season.

Beautifully ****ing illustrated.

 

[stonedhenge]

I think Richard's biggest problem is he is in a bad physical condition.
He was barely moving later in the game 5. Which is even more concerning because his average TOI is not in the range of top players, so he should be more fresh. Even 37y/o Handzus looks to be more commited to keeping him in shape.

 

[deeshamrock]

I think Richard's biggest problem is he is in a bad physical condition.
He was barely moving later in the game 5. Which is even more concerning because his average TOI is not in the range of top players, so he should be more fresh. Even 37y/o Handzus looks to be more commited to keeping him in shape.

He's been playing with an injury for months, which is the reason he's hindered, not conditioning. That's why Sutter made the line adjustments he did earlier this winter. And getting rocked by Shaw (cheapshot) last night didn't help, he got slammed.

 

[Reclamation Project]

Yeah, Shaw had a couple cheap shots. I believe it was in the third he skated past the Kings bench and while trying to lay a hit got both hands and stick up into Muzzin's face (pretty sure it was Muzzin). The guy is a weasel. I don't get why someone on the Kings doesn't crush him. It seems like whenever the Hawks and Kings play he's given free roam with any ramifications. If I was on the Kings I would ****ing let him know that he can't be talking runs at our players. It disgusts me.

 

[kingsfan]

that was more-so in regards to your "he seems to honor agreements" comment. players sign contracts at a discount because they have their GM's confidence that they wont be moved. Dean is a great GM, but business is business. he doesnt always honor agreements

That's also somewhat on the players. JMFJ shouldn't have taken the home town discount without getting some form of a NTC/NMC in there.

Ok you got me, you found an awful contract a desperate team gave to Stephen Weiss, ok so maybe there would be someone willing to trade for him.

And as for Gaborik, you use a comparable of Weiss as to who would pay Richards, well how about a comparable as to what Gaborik will command? David Clarkson, another winger signed for 5.2 million, and you think I am crazy to think Gaborik could command 6.5?

But funny how you are adamant that Richards would get 5.7 but then tell me I have no clue as to what Gaborik would get.

But just so you know, even if Gaborik signed 2 for 10 million the Kings would still be in serious serious cap trouble after next season, especially if some of these younger players keep up their play from these playoffs.

I never once said the cap issue was with this coming season, it's not, the cap issues will be after next season. I know you have used capgeek, take a look for yourself, unless you are like black63 and think everyone will sign for cheap. Maybe Toffoli and Pearson will accept their qualifying offers and Muzzin and AMart will sign for $1.5 mill a year.

Actually, there is plenty more examples of driving up the market, Clarkson is another. The reason i used Weiss though is A) He signed in the last off-season so he's a very recent comparible (and was signed when the cap dropped, not rising like it will be) B) He's defined more as a two-way centre like Richards. As I said, Richards is better but Weiss is noted for his offense and defense (when he signed the deal anyway) like Richie.

Clarkson can be linked the same way, he's a checking, grinding type of player noted for leadership. He's also far more like Richards than he is like Gaborik.

As such the market for a guy like Richards is different than a guy like Gaborik. They are two completely different types of players playing different roles and different positions. Just because Richards would get over $5 million (I didn't 'adamantly' say he'd get $5.7 million, just that'd he be close so likely $5 mill+) doesn't have any bearing on Gaborik. Neither would use the other as a comparable.

If anyone on the Kings would be used as a comparable to Gaborik, it'd be Carter, and his cap hit is $5,272,727. Now, his salary was set several years ago but it also did buy out several UFA years, so given for inflation you can ballpark it at around $6 million to $6.5 million today.

Gaborik would though be signing a much shorter deal and is on the wrong side of 30 and is coming off a pair of less than spectacular seasons. Yes, he's having a great playoffs, but he's also only scored 23 goals in the last 88 regular season games over the past two seasons and has a history of being injury prone.

All that said, I'd say Gaborik would get a 2 year, $11-$12 million deal.

Now, to respond to your complaints that no one is answering where all the money is going to come from, he's a capgeek look at things. You stated in this thread that the salary cap will fall between $69 million and $72 million, so I went middle ground on that at set the cap at $70.5 million. I also assumed we would resign Gaborik at a $6 million cap hit, Mitchell would resign at $3.5 million, Brayden McNabb at $1 million and Dwight King at $1.6 million. I didn't sort players for what line they'd be on, etc. because this is just for cap space purposes.

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Kyle Clifford ($1.075m) / Anze Kopitar ($6.800m) / Dustin Brown ($5.875m)
Tanner Pearson ($0.925m) / Trevor Lewis ($1.525m) / Jeff Carter ($5.273m)
Justin Williams ($3.650m) / Jordan Nolan ($0.700m) / Tyler Toffoli ($0.870m)
Jarret Stoll ($3.250m) / Mike Richards ($5.750m) / Marian Gaborik ($6.000m)
Dwight King ($1.600m)
DEFENSEMEN
Drew Doughty ($7.000m) / Alec Martinez ($1.100m)
Jake Muzzin ($1.000m) / Robyn Regehr ($3.000m)
Slava Voynov ($4.167m) / Willie Mitchell ($3.500m)
Brayden McNabb ($1.000m)
GOALTENDERS
Martin Jones ($0.550m)
Jonathan Quick ($5.800m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
SALARY CAP: $70,500,000; CAP PAYROLL: $70,409,394; BONUSES: $272,500
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $90,606

And that's assuming Mitchell stays at the same salary when really we could replace him for less. the system we use, even guys like Schultz look great.

Things are tight, and we are only going with a 22 man roster, not 23, but it fits and if we traded away someone like Stoll for a cheaper option, or if the salary cap is at the upper end of your $72 million dollar cap range, we'd be more than fine.

I know you are concerned for next year, but should work out as well. Regehr is a UFA and will likely be allowed to walk, freeing up $3 million to extend Muzzin and Martinez. The cap is also likely to take another hefty jump of $4 million or more, so that should go a long way to extending guys like Pearson and Toffoli. After that, we are locked in for a long time on most players and the odd one that does come up, like Kopitar, should be easily off-set by the cap increases. Our only concern is if the cap ever drops, then we should worry.

However I think all of this is a moot point because in all likelihood DL won't pay Gaborik more than Brown and Quick, so he's likely going to get offered a maximum of $5.5 million per year or be allowed to walk. I'd agree with that because as I pointed out earlier, Gaborik is injury prone and has 23 goals in his last 88 regular season games. One great playoff can't wipe that out and Gaborik doesn't have much leverage outside of LA where DL can easily argue Kopitar is a main cause for Gabby's revival, something he won't find elsewhere.

 

[jfont]

that was more-so in regards to your "he seems to honor agreements" comment. players sign contracts at a discount because they have their GM's confidence that they wont be moved. Dean is a great GM, but business is business. he doesnt always honor agreements

Exactly

 

[HYORI 1963]

I think Lombardi's a man of honor. Yeah, there was the Vis diss and the Cloutier mess, but that was early on in his tenure. I think he has a good reputation as a man of integrity.

 

[etherialone]

Exactly

Thought I would post my response because it is a clear outline of my position, exactly.

I didn't say that DL always 100% of the time honors every contract he makes. I did say that "he sure seems to honor agreements more so then being one of those GM's that ditch a player at the first sign of trouble" which is very true.

He moved Vis (I didn't like the way that was handled at the time) and you could argue that he did something somewhat the same with JJ but those are two examples compared to many many more that he has honored that most GM's would have bailed out on.

In this case MR has more than proven himself as a very valuable part of our success where neither Vis nor JJ had done so at the time they were moved so the comparison isn't exactly the same. MR has a much greater chance at having his contract honored the way I see things anyway then did Vis and or JJ.

I would also point out that in those two contract situations that both of those players were moved for considerable and needed upgrades to our team. It isn't like they were simply cast aside because they had a bad season. That is more my point.

 

[The Butcher]

How much has the last week changed the dynamic of this thread?

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

How much has the last week changed the dynamic of this thread?

One thing stood out to me when Sutter had Richards skating every other shift with Pearson and Carter. He looked good. He was making plays and connecting with passes. Whereas with Clifford and Lewis you see a lot less puck possession and a lot more chasing the puck.

It probably doesn't matter, but historically, Richards has produced against the Rangers. I hope he somehow gets his **** together and makes some big plays in the Cup Final and proves to us that he still has something to offer.

 

[Trolfoli]

Been thinking about the whole Richards conundrum.

He had a terrible year.
-Richards was 4th in points 2 behind Williams

-Had random wingers all year from Carcillo/Lewis/Nolan/Toffoli (LW)...forgot Frattin, probably Clifford for a few games,

-no #2 LW for most of the season hurt Richards play no doubt.

-Richards hasn't been playing well with Clifford/Lewis... well he hasn't been producing... Clifford/Richards/Lewis was a little out matched against Kane in the last series.

-Has come up with some good plays like the assist on Gaborik's 7 sec left goal on the ducks.

Basically the question is can the Kings afford the cap space. Answer from messing around on Capgeek is yes. Pretty easily even at 70M cap. (with Gaborik coming back at 6M)

Next question is do you want to pay Richards to play with Lewis/Clifford... My answer is no. with 12/11/23, 70/77/73, 74/28/14 rolling real nice right now where do you put Richards?

So couple of rumors recently. Prokhorkin bought out his contract recently. KHL still apparently fighting it. Then there was a Moller sighting where he said something like he expected the Kings to make him an offer.

A 4th line of Prokhorkin/Richards/Moller would work for me. Or Moller/Richards/Vey if the KHL prevails. Not a lot of toughness, but then Nolan hasn't been in since the first few with the Sharks and Clifford played 3-4 mins in game 7 with the Hawks.

I don't see a reason to trade Richards... Get a couple of cheap guys that are better offensively then Lewis/Clifford so Richards cap hit isn't completely wasted.

 

[deeshamrock]

One thing stood out to me when Sutter had Richards skating every other shift with Pearson and Carter. He looked good. He was making plays and connecting with passes. Whereas with Clifford and Lewis you see a lot less puck possession and a lot more chasing the puck.

It probably doesn't matter, but historically, Richards has produced against the Rangers. I hope he somehow gets his **** together and makes some big plays in the Cup Final and proves to us that he still has something to offer.

Yes, he's always been fairly succesful vs Lundy and the Rags nd has more points vs Lundy and the Rags than any othe NHL team.
But other than his rookie year and his last year as a FLyer (when he was saddled with Nodl and Carcillo most of the time) when he saw the Rags a lot more, he was playing with SKILLED wingers, top 6 guys with a good IQ , vision and scoring abilty. That equates better scoring changes and much higher percentage of succeeding.

That ISN"T what he has now, not playing with Lewis, Nolan and esp Clifford.
It's no coincidence that wehn Sutter upgrades his wingers during the game, that is when he looks better, the passing is better, all the playoff points he has are ALL when he's NOT on the 4th line for that reason.

So unless SUtter does the right thing and gives him someone with that abilty shift in shift out to play with, the scoring ops will be between zero and none, not with those wingers, not happening.

But next year, he'll have recovered from the Dec injury (and possibly surgery), be OFF the 4th line, and put back into a position to contribute, it will be different.

He's NOT a 4th line player when healthy and SUtter knows that. Healthy and 100% he's a better, smarter and far more dangerous player than Stoll.

 

[DaAnimal]

The real question should be if Richards gone how will carter do with the kings? These two are inseparable. They complete each other (no homo). See you next season Richards <3

 

[moosehead81]

Yes, he's always been fairly succesful vs Lundy and the Rags nd has more points vs Lundy and the Rags than any othe NHL team.
But other than his rookie year and his last year as a FLyer (when he was saddled with Nodl and Carcillo most of the time) when he saw the Rags a lot more, he was playing with SKILLED wingers, top 6 guys with a good IQ , vision and scoring abilty. That equates better scoring changes and much higher percentage of succeeding.

That ISN"T what he has now, not playing with Lewis, Nolan and esp Clifford.
It's no coincidence that wehn Sutter upgrades his wingers during the game, that is when he looks better, the passing is better, all the playoff points he has are ALL when he's NOT on the 4th line for that reason.

So unless SUtter does the right thing and gives him someone with that abilty shift in shift out to play with, the scoring ops will be between zero and none, not with those wingers, not happening.

But next year, he'll have recovered from the Dec injury (and possibly surgery), be OFF the 4th line, and put back into a position to contribute, it will be different.

He's NOT a 4th line player when healthy and SUtter knows that. Healthy and 100% he's a better, smarter and far more dangerous player than Stoll.

Everybody forgets that Richards is also not getting the power play time he formerly got, particularly with Philadelphia, and couple that with his current role, points are hard to come by. Philadelphia fans keep reciting how great the trade was for the Flyers, Simmonds and Schenn getting all sorts of points, etc.. But I can tell you, these two would be no better than Mike Richards in a Sutter system with the other players the Kings had over the past 3 years, including Carter. My sense is that the Flyers may not ever have won a Stanley Cup with Mike Richards but the Kings would have had a lot more difficult time winning their 2012 Cup with Simmonds and Schenn instead of MR.

And Mike Richards conditions himself over the summer about as well as anyone in the NHL; this being out of shape at this point of the year is a bit of a crock. No, I'm thinking that's there's something physically wrong with him, like a long-term virus or lung condition that he's fighting, which affects his wind and stamina; not to the point where he needs to sit because, even a little ill, he's better than Nolan, for instance, in a 4th line role.

I thought at the end of season that there was a very good chance that the Kings would try to trade Richards or, failing that, buy him out. Now I'm thinking they'll keep him- he's a team player who obviously brings a lot of winning attitude to whoever he plays with and his record speaks for itself. I mean 3 Stanley Cup appearances (possibly 2 cups) in 5 years with 2 teams and all the other championship rings we already know about. If the Kings do buy him out and he ends up with, say, a team like Toronto, it'll go a long way to making the Leafs a contender in the east. If the Kings do trade him, I'm almost certain it won't be to a western team where it could come back and bite them in the ass.

 

[deeshamrock]

Everybody forgets that Richards is also not getting the power play time he formerly got, particularly with Philadelphia, and couple that with his current role, points are hard to come by. Philadelphia fans keep reciting how great the trade was for the Flyers, Simmonds and Schenn getting all sorts of points, etc.. But I can tell you, these two would be no better than Mike Richards in a Sutter system with the other players the Kings had over the past 3 years, including Carter. My sense is that the Flyers may not ever have won a Stanley Cup with Mike Richards but the Kings would have had a lot more difficult time winning their 2012 Cup with Simmonds and Schenn instead of MR.

And Mike Richards conditions himself over the summer about as well as anyone in the NHL; this being out of shape at this point of the year is a bit of a crock. No, I'm thinking that's there's something physically wrong with him, like a long-term virus or lung condition that he's fighting, which affects his wind and stamina; not to the point where he needs to sit because, even a little ill, he's better than Nolan, for instance, in a 4th line role.

I thought at the end of season that there was a very good chance that the Kings would try to trade Richards or, failing that, buy him out. Now I'm thinking they'll keep him- he's a team player who obviously brings a lot of winning attitude to whoever he plays with and his record speaks for itself. I mean 3 Stanley Cup appearances (possibly 2 cups) in 5 years with 2 teams and all the other championship rings we already know about. If the Kings do buy him out and he ends up with, say, a team like Toronto, it'll go a long way to making the Leafs a contender in the east. If the Kings do trade him, I'm almost certain it won't be to a western team where it could come back and bite them in the ass.

Great point about the PP time, and in Phlly his best year (30/50 80 pts) 44 were specialkty team points (14 shorthanded, 30 PP) because his IQ is that high and his broad ice vision is 2nd to none, he's alwasy been a specality team maverick. And I still think he's better, smarter than Slava at the other point, but Sutter doesn't. And Simmonds is similiar in that 55% of his points this year wer PP, including 15 goals, which is great, he's a bull in front of hte net, but doesn't have the footspeed or IQ to be elite top 6 5x 5 and hasn't so far. Schenn is pretty much terrible everywhere, esp in his own zone, flat out awful in every way, lowest puck possesion numbesr on the team and that was protected minutes not vs top 6, he can't hold water there. Low IQ and disappears ALOT, esp at critical game times and indecision with the puck ,awful, turns into turnovers. But he wont' be a Fliyer next year , somebody else's medicore problem.

Althought I think Richards main issue is an injury, whatever illness he was dianosed with in late Dec was still affecting him (per the Toronto news artaicle that ref. a TSN podcast) at the Olympic break.
EIther wya DL is very aware of his situation, medically, and also that he's a great leader and invaluable partof this team's success
He won't be bought out 0% of that happening. So he'd have his choice of where to sign...CHicago would be a likely target since he's an upgrdae over Handzues and they wouldn't have to trade prospects or picks to get that 2ndx line C they need and Stan Bowman loves Richards and I've heard him speak of Richie in interviews. I doubt if Richards would sign in Toronto, he'd pick a contender, most likelyu WC team. He woiuldn't go backwards at this point in his career.
But that won't happen.
Trade, maybe but not for the next few years, not until that 5 year window DL spoke of when they won the first Cup closes. He won't bust up a winning locker room, overloaded with leadership, grit and guts that eveyr player points to as the reason for their success. Just wouldn't be smart