Speculation: Will Richards Be A King Come Next Season?

[HYORI 1963]

Again, same question I have asked everyone and no one can answer. If MR is retained, where does the money come from to re-sign Gaborik and re-sign Toffoli, Pearson Martinez and Muzzin? Those are the big four, but beyond that you also have Williams and Stoll.

If people are saying that they are cool with losing Gaborik or losing two of Martinez/Williams/Stoll then that is one thing, but everyone seems to want those guys all back but refuse to accept the fact that there just isn't enough money to make it all happen.

Well, we only need to sign Gabby, the others are still under contract. I think you may be misreading capgeek.

 

[etherialone]

Again, same question I have asked everyone and no one can answer. If MR is retained, where does the money come from to re-sign Gaborik and re-sign Toffoli, Pearson Martinez and Muzzin? Those are the big four, but beyond that you also have Williams and Stoll. Even if RR is gone after next season.

If people are saying that they are cool with losing Gaborik or losing two of Martinez/Williams/Stoll then that is one thing, but everyone seems to want those guys all back but refuse to accept the fact that there just isn't enough money to make it all happen.

Right now Drew and Slava are the only defenders signed beyond next season, does anyone know what the going rate for competent defenders on the UFA market is? Even if Mitchell, Greene and RR are gone they still need to be replaced, and it;s not all going to be from within, not a chance, there just isn't the depth in the system to do it, not for a contending team.

Here is your answer.

You haven't (neither do I) any way of knowing what the cap is going to be 2 seasons from now when all of these situations become relevant. For this offseason we can do what needs to be done without losing anyone. Will what we do this offseason impact what we are capable of doing the following one? I would guess that it will but as of today it will only be a guess and that is the best that any of us will have until we know what the cap will be both this and next offseason.

We may be just fine and if not we may be able to move players who's contracts are up to replace them with comparable or better players from within. MR may well be one of those players two seasons from the one we are currently playing today but we aren't there yet so worrying about it today is sort of borrowing trouble.

That and I am not willing to throw the baby out with the bathwater on MR just yet and I don't think we should be either. He has more than earned next season to recapture his game if possible and if not then we have to consider what is best for both us and him and then make the best decision possible.

That is as simple as it can be.

 

[Herby]

Fair enough. But do you really see Lombardi making a move on Richards in the offseason? I understand that you want him to make a move, but do you really see him moving MR? I just don't see it, and if the polls are any indication, neither do the kings fans on here.

It depends, if DL knows for a fact that he can move MR for a draft pick next summer even if he has another miserable season then sure, go right ahead and keep him for one more year and move him next summer when the cap situation starts to put a significant squeeze on the Kings.

If there is any potential risk in that being an untradeable contract next summer if MR's play continues to fall off the cliff then DL needs to buy him out because that contract is going to cause the Kings significant harm starting a year from now when all these guys are due for raises, that is a fact, whether people choose to accept it or not it is a fact, go on capgeek and play around yourself.

 

[DryIslandBartender]

Everyone armchair GM's on this board, but nice of you to single me out.

Specifically singling you out because A.) your hockey takes are garbage and B.) post constantly in this thread, obviously. We're in the middle of a cup run, and your concerned about jettisoning a player next year for cap purposes.

And how can you say he has been good defensively? Do you just completely choose to ignore every stat used to judge defensive play? Or are you one of those people like Hawk Harrelson who just refuses to believe them?

No, I watch the games and listen to what the teammates and coach sutter say about Richie. He played really well defensively in the elimination games and especially in the game 7s. Without his play in those games, I doubt we'd be in the WCF for the third straight year. The other two WCF, Richie played a big part in getting us there as well.

since no one else seems to want to answer the difficult questions, maybe you will, but judging on your posting past probably not.

- How many other teams in the NHL spend almost $6 million on a bottom six center?

- Are you willing to lose Gaborik over keeping an almost $6 million a year bottom line center?

- Have you watched Jake Muzzin play this post season? How about Alec Martinez? They make a combined $2.1 million this season, want to guess how much they are going to make after next season when their contracts are up?

- How about Toffoli and Pearson, they are making a combined $1.4 million this season, you think that is going to stay the same when they are both up for new contracts after next season?

- Kopitar's contract is up after 2016, he will need to be signed to a new, huge Getzlaf caliber contract, do you not agree?

- What about adding a defenseman to replace Mitchell or even re-signing Mitchell?

The reason why no one is answering your crap questions is because we're all excited about tomorrow's game vs the Hawks. Why in the world are you worrying about 50 things that you can't control? We're in a Cup run and you are complaining about what the roster may look like in 2 years? Who cares at this point? Dean Lombardi and Jeff Solomon make the big bucks to make those decisions. Did you forsee Gaborik joining this team last year while we were in the playoffs? DL always knows what the teams needs are. Getting rid of Richie is not a need.

Secondly, DL and Sutter place tremendous value on Richie. They know he works with the young guys on the ice and also off it. Richie plays a big part in instilling the culture that DL wanted for this organization. As I have said, he's not going anywhere.

So where does all the money come from DyIslandBartender? Please tell us where it comes from, but again since it's you that is posting it's probably just another pointless hit and run post saying "MR is going nowhere" and you'll say anyone who talks about the long term contract situation "armchair GM's"

Anyone can else can jump in and play "armchair GM" also...please someone come up with a cap situation beyond next season that keeps the Kings together that includes Mike Richards $6 million a year cap hit? But be careful, you might be criticized for doing it if a certain someone doesn't agree with it.

There's too many what ifs to address this post, Gaborik may cash in for his postseason performance elsewhere and couple players could retire and ride off into the sunset. I don't know, and certainly not going to waste time fretting about it right now. Just going to enjoy this Kings cup runs era.

 

[KingKopitar11*]

Whether it's Richards, or Williams, or whoever, a beloved King that's on the roster right now isn't going to be here in a few years.

There's no way to retain everybody.

I just think Williams is more likely gone than Richards.

You really believe that?

I would keep Richards and put this under the rug, but if it means losing stoll or Williams, they are better off buying him out. I don't want the Kings to have cap issues and the most expensive useless contract is Richards, hell the term in itself is worth getting gone for. Especially him a bottom 6 roll is all he can handle.

 

[HYORI 1963]

Just going to enjoy this Kings cup runs era.

My thoughts exactly.

Who knows if and when we'll be as dominant as we are now. We're just one game away from being in the Stanley Cup Finals. Let's enjoy this ride, because this ride isn't going to last forever.

 

[Captain Mittens*]

You really believe that?

I believe in life after love

 

[Herby]

Here is your answer.

You haven't (neither do I) any way of knowing what the cap is going to be 2 seasons from now when all of these situations become relevant. For this offseason we can do what needs to be done without losing anyone. Will what we do this offseason impact what we are capable of doing the following one? I would guess that it will but as of today it will only be a guess and that is the best that any of us will have until we know what the cap will be both this and next offseason.

We may be just fine and if not we may be able to move players who's contracts are up to replace them with comparable or better players from within. MR may well be one of those players two seasons from the one we are currently playing today but we aren't there yet so worrying about it today is sort of borrowing trouble.

That and I am not willing to throw the baby out with the bathwater on MR just yet and I don't think we should be either. He has more than earned next season to recapture his game if possible and if not then we have to consider what is best for both us and him and then make the best decision possible.

That is as simple as it can be.

TG,

We do have a pretty good idea of where the cap is going to be, it's going to be between $69 and $72, the cap is not going to explode anytime soon because the loonie has been all over the place and it's likely going to struggle probably through next year, remember Canadian teams pay their players in US dollars but obviously their revenues are in Canadian dollars. And while the Canadian teams only make up 7 of the 30 teams I believe something like 35% of the league revenue is from north of the border.

 

[Herby]

Specifically singling you out because A.) your hockey takes are garbage and B.) post constantly in this thread, obviously. We're in the middle of a cup run, and your concerned about jettisoning a player next year for cap purposes.



No, I watch the games and listen to what the teammates and coach sutter say about Richie. He played really well defensively in the elimination games and especially in the game 7s. Without his play in those games, I doubt we'd be in the WCF for the third straight year. The other two WCF, Richie played a big part in getting us there as well.





The reason why no one is answering your crap questions is because we're all excited about tomorrow's game vs the Hawks. Why in the world are you worrying about 50 things that you can't control? We're in a Cup run and you are complaining about what the roster may look like in 2 years? Who cares at this point? Dean Lombardi and Jeff Solomon make the big bucks to make those decisions. Did you forsee Gaborik joining this team last year while we were in the playoffs? DL always knows what the teams needs are. Getting rid of Richie is not a need.

Secondly, DL and Sutter place tremendous value on Richie. They know he works with the young guys on the ice and also off it. Richie plays a big part in instilling the culture that DL wanted for this organization. As I have said, he's not going anywhere.



There's too many what ifs to address this post, Gaborik may cash in for his postseason performance elsewhere and couple players could retire and ride off into the sunset. I don't know, and certainly not going to waste time fretting about it right now. Just going to enjoy this Kings cup runs era.

Such a long post and still can't answer the simple question, but typical garbage post from a garbage poster, wouldn't expect any less. I guess it's against the rules to be discussing the future of the team, hell why even post in the draft threads or any other threads talking about the future.

BTW, I have been active in every single GDT about this series, I was at Game 1, am flying home in a few hours and will be at Game 6 if it happens. BTW how many other posters have posted in this thread, but go ahead and keep singling me out because you refuse to even discuss the ability of this team to be a long term contender. I have said numerous times it's fun to watch this team right now, but I want to see this team contending for years to come, and that is not sustainable with an almost $6 mill a year bottom six player.

And not surprising that you have watched the games and can't see that he is on the ice for large amounts of goals against, two years running worst advanced defensive stats on the team and worst +/- the last two regular seasons and this post season, once again like I told TG he has improved from where he was earlier, but he is still on the ice for goals against more than anyone else on this team, no matter who his linemates are. And yes he did play well in the elimination games, I can agree with that 100%, now will you defend his play in the earlier games of those series when Sutter had him in top 6 roles?

 

[KingKopitar11*]

I believe in life after love

I knew you were a Cher fan.

 

[etherialone]

TG,

We do have a pretty good idea of where the cap is going to be, it's going to be between $69 and $72, the cap is not going to explode anytime soon because the loonie has been all over the place and it's likely going to struggle probably through next year, remember Canadian teams pay their players in US dollars but obviously their revenues are in Canadian dollars. And while the Canadian teams only make up 7 of the 30 teams I believe something like 35% of the league revenue is from north of the border.

Lets say that it is up to $70m for next season, shouldn't the cap go up again the following one? Wouldn't it at least make the same level of increase as it will this coming offseason or doesn't it make sense to think that it should?

I guess my point is that we are making finite decisions (or debating them) by using a number that cannot be determined entirely just yet and that number will have too large of an impact on the final decision to be taken on spec. At least that is how I see it anyways.

So I think we are set for this offseason but the following one could be trouble or even likely will be trouble but then there are again too many variables for me to be able to see that far into the future and come up with a perfect decision regarding MR. Also we just don't know what we will see from him next season as this past season isn't indicative of his usual play and if he can regain his game he is worth keeping around and one of the more effective 2nd line C in the game.

I guess I don't see the need for black and white thinking at this point with so many variables to consider.

 

[Herby]

My thoughts exactly.

Who knows if and when we'll be as dominant as we are now. We're just one game away from being in the Stanley Cup Finals. Let's enjoy this ride, because this ride isn't going to last forever.

Actually it has a chance to last for quite awhile.

Drew Doughty is 24, Kopitar is 27, Carter is 29, Quick is 28. There is your elite core all under 30.

Toffoli and Pearson are 22, Muzzin is 25, Voynov 24.

The Kings are going to be contenders for a long long time barring injury.

 

[go4hockey]

Back in 2004, Darryl Sutter convinced then Flames goaltender Roman Turek to restructure his way-over-priced contract.


Do you think Dean & Darryl can/will convince Richards to do the same thing?




Discuss.....

Nothing to discuss the NHL does not allow that kind of stuff.

 

[go4hockey]

Actually it has a chance to last for quite awhile.

Drew Doughty is 24, Kopitar is 27, Carter is 29, Quick is 28. There is your elite core all under 30.

Toffoli and Pearson are 22, Muzzin is 25, Voynov 24.

The Kings are going to be contenders for a long long time barring injury.

And this was a big part of Deans plan and he has nailed the plan. All the years of waiting have paid off.

 

[Herby]

Lets say that it is up to $70m for next season, shouldn't the cap go up again the following one? Wouldn't it at least make the same level of increase as it will this coming offseason or doesn't it make sense to think that it should?

I guess my point is that we are making finite decisions (or debating them) by using a number that cannot be determined entirely just yet and that number will have too large of an impact on the final decision to be taken on spec. At least that is how I see it anyways.

So I think we are set for this offseason but the following one could be trouble or even likely will be trouble but then there are again too many variables for me to be able to see that far into the future and come up with a perfect decision regarding MR. Also we just don't know what we will see from him next season as this past season isn't indicative of his usual play and if he can regain his game he is worth keeping around and one of the more effective 2nd line C in the game.

I guess I don't see the need for black and white thinking at this point with so many variables to consider.

TG,

The cap is not going to massively fluctuate, it is not designed in the CBA to do that, the league has great financial minds working for them that have a pretty good idea of what the cap is going to be for probably the next few years, and that information is passed on to the clubs. Barring any kind of financial collapse in either country the cap is going to stay in that window listed, the cap should rise slightly with inflation, but there are other things, such as the strength of the loonie and dollar that could push it back down though.

As for the player, like I told black63, if DL knows for sure that he can trade MR's contract after next season even if the wheels continue to fall off then by all means keep him for this season because it's not this coming season that is going to be the issue for the Kings so it wouldn't hurt them to have Richards playing on the fourth line next season.

But if another miserable season means we are stuck with that contract then you have to look at either the trade or buy out route this summer.

And thank you for keeping it civil and not resorting to name calling like some here, always enjoy talking hockey with you, even if we don't see eye to eye on some things I greatly respect your opinion. Cheers.

 

[Reclamation Project]

Actually it has a chance to last for quite awhile.

Drew Doughty is 24, Kopitar is 27, Carter is 29, Quick is 28. There is your elite core all under 30.

Toffoli and Pearson are 22, Muzzin is 25, Voynov 24.

The Kings are going to be contenders for a long long time barring injury.

Sick core. Still say it's as good as anyone else's.

 

[Herby]

Sick core. Still say it's as good as anyone else's.

Agreed.

Now if they can just sign Gaborik the Kings are built perfectly with a franchise defenseman, franchise goaltender, two excellent center icemen and an elite winger.

Some things obviously will have to be addressed, but that is a strong core signed long term.

 

[Reclamation Project]

Agreed.

Now if they can just sign Gaborik the Kings are built perfectly with a franchise defenseman, franchise goaltender, two excellent center icemen and an elite winger.

Some things obviously will have to be addressed, but that is a strong core signed long term.

Pearson - Carter - Toffoli is a tremendous second line. Our top six with that line is as good as anyone's.

 

[HYORI 1963]

Actually it has a chance to last for quite awhile.

Drew Doughty is 24, Kopitar is 27, Carter is 29, Quick is 28. There is your elite core all under 30.

Toffoli and Pearson are 22, Muzzin is 25, Voynov 24.

The Kings are going to be contenders for a long long time barring injury.

So, maybe we can lay to rest the contract buyout/ trade talk of Richards finally? Because even with Richards contract, we can afford to keep all these guys on the roster, could we not?

And soon, we can also add McNabb and Shore to the list.

 

[tsanuri]

TG,

The cap is not going to massively fluctuate, it is not designed in the CBA to do that, the league has great financial minds working for them that have a pretty good idea of what the cap is going to be for probably the next few years, and that information is passed on to the clubs. Barring any kind of financial collapse in either country the cap is going to stay in that window listed, the cap should rise slightly with inflation, but there are other things, such as the strength of the loonie and dollar that could push it back down though.

As for the player, like I told black63, if DL knows for sure that he can trade MR's contract after next season even if the wheels continue to fall off then by all means keep him for this season because it's not this coming season that is going to be the issue for the Kings so it wouldn't hurt them to have Richards playing on the fourth line next season.

But if another miserable season means we are stuck with that contract then you have to look at either the trade or buy out route this summer.

And thank you for keeping it civil and not resorting to name calling like some here, always enjoy talking hockey with you, even if we don't see eye to eye on some things I greatly respect your opinion. Cheers.

Actually the cap will go up every year and by 3-4M a year at 5%.
And over the last CBA the league was growing at 7.2%. So 5% is allowing for the loss in the CDN$ and even slowed growth.
Consider what they gave as the initial projection and have come back from it. But given that number they were projecting around 3.8B in revenue. Remember that the last full season was only at 3.3B.
We then have the 5% inflator that the players can add in every year is my understanding. That will raise the mid point. I remember the globe and mail doing a story on how the cap could reach almost 90M before the end of this CBA. And if I'm not mistaken the numbers at 3.8B weren't for a few more years.

 

[Herby]

So, maybe we can lay to rest the contract buyout/ trade talk of Richards finally? Because even with Richards contract, we can afford to keep all these guys on the roster, could we not?

And soon, we can also add McNabb and Shore to the list.

No black, they actually can't afford to keep all those players on the roster without easing some of their financial burdens. That is why the long term discussion that a certain person thinks is blasphemous is going on in this thread.

Maybe you just don't see the issue as I do because we once again have a much different opinion of what guys values are (shocking I know)

Lets try something, what do you think the following players will be earning on their next contract if it's with the Kings.

Muzzin
Martinez
Toffoli
Pearson
Stoll
Williams
Regehr

I'll answer after you.

 

[Herby]

Actually the cap will go up every year and by 3-4M a year at 5%.
And over the last CBA the league was growing at 7.2%. So 5% is allowing for the loss in the CDN$ and even slowed growth.
Consider what they gave as the initial projection and have come back from it. But given that number they were projecting around 3.8B in revenue. Remember that the last full season was only at 3.3B.
We then have the 5% inflator that the players can add in every year is my understanding. That will raise the mid point. I remember the globe and mail doing a story on how the cap could reach almost 90M before the end of this CBA. And if I'm not mistaken the numbers at 3.8B weren't for a few more years.

Sorry I didn't word my post very well. I didn't mean the cap is going to stay in that window for the life of the CBA, I meant it's going to stay in the window of 69-72 for this season. Which most outlets have it likely to be at $71.

It is my understanding that there are safeguards in this CBA that would prevent what happened last time, which largely happened because the loonie was ridiculously strong and caused the cap to raise at levels that took the owners and their lawyers by surprise. Remember the salary cap floor in 2012 was higher than the salary cap max the first season after the lockout.

But also remember, as the cap increases so will the expectant salaries of FA's, of which the Kings will have seven after next season.

 

[tsanuri]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/spor...lary-cap-could-hit-90-million/article7029575/
Found the article and based off what they projected with where the cap is probably going to be we are already at the revenue numbers for 2016-2018.
And they pointed out that by the end of this CBA the floor will be where they cap was to start it. Or close enough.
But if that is really where the league is going to be and can keep even a 5% growth we are going to be looking some high numbers quite quickly under this CBA.

 

[damacles1156]

I don't think Lombardi will buyout Richards. He should in my mind just for cap security reasons. Also I don't view Richards as a top six player anymore.

But I doubt Lombardi pulls the trigger on Richards, if Richards remains somewhat productive, I see Lombardi honoring the contract.

 

[Herby]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/spor...lary-cap-could-hit-90-million/article7029575/
Found the article and based off what they projected with where the cap is probably going to be we are already at the revenue numbers for 2016-2018.
And they pointed out that by the end of this CBA the floor will be where they cap was to start it. Or close enough.
But if that is really where the league is going to be and can keep even a 5% growth we are going to be looking some high numbers quite quickly under this CBA.

Not sure this article accounts for the massive TV contract signed with sportsnet, I don't believe it does and that could be why the numbers are a bit off. The 7.2% was as I mentioned largely on the strength of a surging loonie at the end of last decade, which crippled many American teams who were struggling to spend to the floor and lead to the lockout in 2012. Right now many analysts project the loonie could fall to 85 cents on the dollar, which would have an impact on the revenue the NHL brings in thus effecting the amount of the cap.

I'm a trader not a lawyer, I won't pretend to be one, but I have to figure they did a better job of setting up this CBA than the last one, which was an absolute disater.