Speculation: Will Richards Be A King Come Next Season?

[Herby]

Richards will be a King AINEC. Did I do it right?

It's amazing the love for a guy during the 2012 & 2013 playoffs has turned to hate in such a short time. This is a classic example of the 'what have you done for me lately' syndrome that runs rampant through HF.

Not it's not Scott. No one is "hating".

I have been critical of his play, and he was grossly overmatched in a top 6 role, but he is doing excellent in his current role on the fourth line, but it's simply not realistic to be paying almost $6 million for a fourth line center. Especially when at this time next year the Kings will be looking at needing to re-sign seven free agents who are currently playing a more important role on the team.

No one else seems to be able or willing to answer it Scott, maybe you can, where does the money come from? Do we say goodbye to Gaborik? Do we trade Brown? Voynov? Stoll? Williams? Give up on signing both AMart and Muzzin? All those guys at this point are better players who are going to have better contracts, and that is why Richards name is brought up, not because of a "what have you done for me lately" attitude that you mention or because people are "haters"

 

[Herby]

6 years at $34 million is $5.67 million per year. This guy just got $4.9 million per year

Last I checked he was coming off a brutal year that makes Richards year this year look like Gretzky and he never posted numbers like Richards has in the past either, nevermind the fact that all the 'intangibles' Richards has like leadership and a major winning pedigree are things Weiss hasn't shown at all. Richards will surely command more than Weiss, especially with the cap going up.

Richards may not get $5.5 million per season, but he'd come damn close. In his worst year in nearly a decade he still potted 41 points and is now on his third straight WCF appearance and likely soon to be his 3rd Stanley cup finals appearance. Dude will get paid handsomely.

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No, no it doesn't. You don't even have a clue what gabby would want or command on the open market and its certainly not $7 million a year like you suggested.

Ok you got me, you found an awful contract a desperate team gave to Stephen Weiss, ok so maybe there would be someone willing to trade for him.

And as for Gaborik, you use a comparable of Weiss as to who would pay Richards, well how about a comparable as to what Gaborik will command? David Clarkson, another winger signed for 5.2 million, and you think I am crazy to think Gaborik could command 6.5?

But funny how you are adamant that Richards would get 5.7 but then tell me I have no clue as to what Gaborik would get.

But just so you know, even if Gaborik signed 2 for 10 million the Kings would still be in serious serious cap trouble after next season, especially if some of these younger players keep up their play from these playoffs.

I never once said the cap issue was with this coming season, it's not, the cap issues will be after next season. I know you have used capgeek, take a look for yourself, unless you are like black63 and think everyone will sign for cheap. Maybe Toffoli and Pearson will accept their qualifying offers and Muzzin and AMart will sign for $1.5 mill a year.

 

[Reclamation Project]

Gaborik would get far north of 5.2 million on an open market; especially after his post season. The Kings need to keep the guy at any means necessary.

 

[damacles1156]

Gaborik would get far north of 5.2 million on an open market; especially after his post season. The Kings need to keep the guy at any means necessary.

No they don't, You don't hand Gaborik a stupid contract, when you are going to have to buy out Richards because of one.

You offer Gabo a fair contract ,and leave it at that. If he Wants to get paid, he can go elsewhere.

 

[Herby]

Gaborik would get far north of 5.2 million on an open market; especially after his post season. The Kings need to keep the guy at any means necessary.

If Gaborik signed for $5.5 (the low end), Mitchell retires after next season after signing a one year deal (seems reasonable) and the cap is at 69-71 the Kings would have anywhere from $2.5 to $4.5 in cap space with Pearson, Toffoli, Muzzin, Martinez, Regehr, Stoll and Williams all entering free agency. Once again, the math just doesn't add up unless they want to say goodbye to guys like Williams and Stoll, who have had strong post seasons. I just don't see how it makes sense. Stoll and Williams are both contributing in these playoffs and could easily be re-signed after next season, sure the Kings could replace them with younger players, but that greatly weakens the team.

And if Gaborik signs for closer to 7, that cap space shrinks to almost nothing.

 

[damacles1156]

What needs to happen to avoid cap issues.

Richards buyout 5.8 Cap hit. Turn around and offer Gabo 3 years at 5.8 or 6.0 (MAX)

You replace Richards with Gabo, let Shore/Vey/Andy take that 4th line Center spot for ELC wage.

Kings come out just fine. Mike Richards is a perfect 4th line Center, but not for 5.8 million dollars. With Gabo only being signed three years hopefully he stays moto and healthy.

If it fails, not going to hurt the Kings real bad it's a short enough Contract, and the Cap hit is not 6.5 million +.

 

[johnjm22]

There's no issue affording everyone, including Richards, next season.

In 2015-16, Stoll, Willliams & Regehr all come off the books, and I think 2 of those 3 do not get resigned.

Assuming Gaborik and Mitchel are extended through 15/16, that would leave probably leave around 15M to sign the following:

RFA:
Pearson, Tanner
Toffoli, Tyler
Muzzin, Jake
Nolan, Jordan
Clifford, Kyle

UFA
Martinez, Alec

It's doable, but very difficult to make projections because we don't know what kind of numbers these guys are going to put up, or what the cap will be.

The following season Kopitar will probably get a 2M raise.

 

[Herby]

What needs to happen to avoid cap issues.

Richards buyout 5.8 Cap hit. Turn around and offer Gabo 3 years at 5.8 or 6.0 (MAX)

You replace Richards with Gabo, let Shore/Vey/Andy take that 4th line Center spot for ELC wage.

Kings come out just fine. Mike Richards is a perfect 4th line Center, but not for 5.8 million dollars. With Gabo only being signed three years hopefully he stays moto and healthy.

If it fails, not going to hurt the Kings real bad it's a short enough Contract, and the Cap hit is not 6.5 million +.

And plenty of money left to sign Muzzin, Martinez, TT , Pearson and to sign Williams and Stoll to two year contracts to be the veteran presence on the bottom six.

I think Gabo will get a little bit more, but that is just a small disagreement, you have everything else right.

Don't get why people are just unwilling to look at the big picture, the Kings could be gutted next offseason, especially if Pearson, Toffoli or Muzzin play like they have in the playoffs, could be primed for an offer sheet.

 

[Herby]

There's no issue affording everyone, including Richards, next season.

In 2015-16, Stoll, Willliams & Regehr all come off the books, and I think 2 of those 3 do not get resigned.

Assuming Gaborik and Mitchel are extended through 15/16, that would leave probably leave around 15M to sign the following:

RFA:
Pearson, Tanner
Toffoli, Tyler
Muzzin, Jake
Nolan, Jordan
Clifford, Kyle

UFA
Martinez, Alec

It's doable, but very difficult to make projections because we don't know what kind of numbers these guys are going to put up, or what the cap will be.

The following season Kopitar will probably get a 2M raise.

But who replaces Stoll and Williams? Are you willing to let 2/3 of the current third line go to keep the fourth line center who makes almost as much as they do combined? Wouldn't it make more sense to pay Stoll and Williams $6.5 combined to be the veteran presence on the bottom six?

 

[damacles1156]

And plenty of money left to sign Muzzin, Martinez, TT , Pearson and to sign Williams and Stoll to two year contracts to be the veteran presence on the bottom six.

I think Gabo will get a little bit more, but that is just a small disagreement, you have everything else right.

Don't get why people are just unwilling to look at the big picture, the Kings could be gutted next offseason, especially if Pearson, Toffoli or Muzzin play like they have in the playoffs, could be primed for an offer sheet.

I am a Kings fan before a player fan. Love Mike Richards, but he is not a top Six player anymore. You can't pay people in your bottom six that kind of money.

I am worried about Brown, but I feel Brown will bounce back to his 20+G and 40+P. Brown is still overpaid, but he get's back to form, he is not that much overpaid.

 

[johnjm22]

But who replaces Stoll and Williams? Are you willing to let 2/3 of the current third line go to keep the fourth line center who makes almost as much as they do combined? Wouldn't it make more sense to pay Stoll and Williams $6.5 combined to be the veteran presence on the bottom six?

I don't think you can retain Stoll and Williams for 6.5M.

I think Williams is gone. I love the guy, but he's built up reputation, and I think he has very high market value right now. He'd get much more on the market than what the Kings could afford to pay him.

Vey probably replaces him in the bottom 6.

 

[damacles1156]

People have predicting Williams leaving or being traded for three years now.

The guy is not going anywhere, he will most likely retire a King. I actually think if Lombardi had to pick between Stoll or Williams, he would keep Williams.

 

[Reclamation Project]

No they don't, You don't hand Gaborik a stupid contract, when you are going to have to buy out Richards because of one.

You offer Gabo a fair contract ,and leave it at that. If he Wants to get paid, he can go elsewhere.

You know my number and I'm sticking to it. When I say any means necessary I didn't mean giving him a monster contract. I worded that poorly.

 

[johnjm22]

People have predicting Williams leaving or being traded for three years now.

The guy is not going anywhere, he will most likely retire a King. I actually think if Lombardi had to pick between Stoll or Williams, he would keep Williams.

Whether it's Richards, or Williams, or whoever, a beloved King that's on the roster right now isn't going to be here in a few years.

There's no way to retain everybody.

I just think Williams is more likely gone than Richards.

 

[etherialone]

Who knows what the SPECIFIC cap will be for next year?

Not the speculated $71m but the actual and factual cap.

I must have missed it when it was announced but I am sure someone can tell me what the NHL has said that the cap will be for next season. I can't find it but it must be out there because there sure seems to be a ton of certainty about what needs to happen and what will or won't be possible based on the cap for next season so I need to find out what it is going to be so I can make my opinions based on the same information.

A little help could go a long way.

 

[Herby]

Who knows what the SPECIFIC cap will be for next year?

Not the speculated $71m but the actual and factual cap.

I must have missed it when it was announced but I am sure someone can tell me what the NHL has said that the cap will be for next season. I can't find it but it must be out there because there sure seems to be a ton of certainty about what needs to happen and what will or won't be possible based on the cap for next season so I need to find out what it is going to be so I can make my opinions based on the same information.

A little help could go a long way.

It was rumored to be as high as $72 a couple of months ago, but then Bettman on his radio show said $69 or $70 was possible too, I think the consensus is right around $71 right now.

But it's not next season where the Kings are going to be in serious cap trouble, it's 2015-2016. It would need to go up to 75 or 76 for the Kings to be ok with our current contracts and guys hitting FA that summer.

 

[etherialone]

It was rumored to be as high as $72 a couple of months ago, but then Bettman on his radio show said $69 or $70 was possible too, I think the consensus is right around $71 right now.

But it's not next season where the Kings are going to be in serious cap trouble, it's 2015-2016. It would need to go up to 75 or 76 for the Kings to be ok with our current contracts and guys hitting FA that summer.

But isn't that an X factor supreme? I mean if the cap is supposedly going up to as high as $72m for next season (I have heard it was locked in at $71m but have my doubts) then doesn't it follow reason that it will go up again in 15/16?

Aren't we concerning ourselves with things that could very easily work themselves out without any of our suppositions about who we may or may not be able to keep? I agree MR had a bad season for him but he could also completely rebound and imo has had a very good playoffs for us so far. I am willing to give him next season to prove himself/regain his game and even though we lose our buyout nonsense I can live with whatever happens after that.

We are among the last 4 teams left playing for the 3rd season in a row and MR is a key contributor to that process. He may not be performing at the level that we all would like to see but he is still one of very few players that I want on the ice with the game on the line and a minute left.

I don't know, I agree with the idea that you don't want to pay a fourth line C anything over $3m per and he would have to be an exceptional one to get that much today but I don't think that MR has done anything to warrant our wanting to ditch him before giving him every chance to find his O again and even then, I appreciate the rest of his game enough to try and find a way to keep him rather than deal him for cap space.

Lots of respect for your Herby you know that but I just am entirely on the other side of the fence on this one.

 

[HYORI 1963]

It was rumored to be as high as $72 a couple of months ago, but then Bettman on his radio show said $69 or $70 was possible too, I think the consensus is right around $71 right now.

But it's not next season where the Kings are going to be in serious cap trouble, it's 2015-2016. It would need to go up to 75 or 76 for the Kings to be ok with our current contracts and guys hitting FA that summer.

You just love pushing the panic button, don't you?

Let's have the 2015-16 season when it's little more appropriate. It seems just a tad premature to be discussing what's going to happen 2 years down the line. I'm sure there will be some tough decisions to make, but it just seems silly to be trying to find the solutions now, when there are so many unknowns.

 

[King'sPawn]

Herby, I have been critical of Richards' play as well. However, as maddening as his struggles are, he will undoubtedly stay with the team.

In the immediate future, we will likely lose one of Mitchell or Greene after this season. Probably Regehr the season after.

While these are defensemen, the Kings have done a good job implementing a 5 man defensive system where you don't need to overpay for stud defensemen. I don't think the Kings will get plugs, but I would be surprised to see DL overpay in the FA market for a defenseman. Even Schultz, for less than $1 million, seemed to fit in okay for stretches.

Mid-long term, who knows what the cap will be?

But the Kings do not "need" to move Richards. And they shouldn't. He may have declined, but he's still a quality player.

 

[TheSentinel]

You know my number and I'm sticking to it. When I say any means necessary I didn't mean giving him a monster contract. I worded that poorly.

What RP is trying to say is that he will start a Kickstarter for this.

 

[Herby]

You just love pushing the panic button, don't you?

Let's have the 2015-16 season when it's little more appropriate. It seems just a tad premature to be discussing what's going to happen 2 years down the line. I'm sure there will be some tough decisions to make, but it just seems silly to be trying to find the solutions now, when there are so many unknowns.

It is being discussed now because the biggest solution to solving the cap woes for 2015-2016 would be buying out Mike Richards in 2014. There is no such option after this June.

And TG, appreciate the comments, but if you take a look at it deeper it just isn't realistic to have a $6 million a year third line center. The way a cap league is set-up is allocating cap space for certain types of players, MR was signed to his contract as a 2nd line center, he simply isn't a 2nd line center anymore and with Carter assuming that role there is no need to roll the dice and risk cap casualties next season to keep your fourth line intact.

TG I know you think highly of Toffoli, Pearson and Muzzin, as do I. And I fully expect this to continue next season with these three guys firmly establishing themselves as big pieces of the Kings, the problem is right now they make a combined $2.5 million, and you just need to plan for the future with situations like this. I think TT could honestly pot 30+ next season and if the Kings are in cap trouble him, Pearson and Muzzin could all be candidates to be offersheeted. And well some will say the solution is to just let Stoll and Williams leave and be replaced by rookies on ELC's, but right now Stoll and Williams have been playing at a very high level on the third line, are we going to throw that away because we need to keep our fourth line center who makes almost as much as they do combined? It makes zero financial sense.

 

[Captain Mittens*]

Not it's not Scott. No one is "hating".

Let's set aside which one of you is wrong or right and all agree that "Hater Herby" does have a nice ring to it.

 

[HYORI 1963]

It is being discussed now because the biggest solution to solving the cap woes for 2015-2016 would be buying out Mike Richards in 2014. There is no such option after this June.

Fair enough. But do you really see Lombardi making a move on Richards in the offseason? I understand that you want him to make a move, but do you really see him moving MR? I just don't see it, and if the polls are any indication, neither do the kings fans on here.

 

[Herby]

Herby, I have been critical of Richards' play as well. However, as maddening as his struggles are, he will undoubtedly stay with the team.

In the immediate future, we will likely lose one of Mitchell or Greene after this season. Probably Regehr the season after.

While these are defensemen, the Kings have done a good job implementing a 5 man defensive system where you don't need to overpay for stud defensemen. I don't think the Kings will get plugs, but I would be surprised to see DL overpay in the FA market for a defenseman. Even Schultz, for less than $1 million, seemed to fit in okay for stretches.

Mid-long term, who knows what the cap will be?

But the Kings do not "need" to move Richards. And they shouldn't. He may have declined, but he's still a quality player.

Again, same question I have asked everyone and no one can answer. If MR is retained, where does the money come from to re-sign Gaborik and re-sign Toffoli, Pearson Martinez and Muzzin? Those are the big four, but beyond that you also have Williams and Stoll. Even if RR is gone after next season.

If people are saying that they are cool with losing Gaborik or losing two of Martinez/Williams/Stoll then that is one thing, but everyone seems to want those guys all back but refuse to accept the fact that there just isn't enough money to make it all happen.

Right now Drew and Slava are the only defenders signed beyond next season, does anyone know what the going rate for competent defenders on the UFA market is? Even if Mitchell, Greene and RR are gone they still need to be replaced, and it's not all going to be from within, not a chance, there just isn't the depth in the system to do it, not for a contending team.

 

[Reclamation Project]

What RP is trying to say is that he will start a Kickstarter for this.

May have to go back to my gigolo days. Whatever it takes.